Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[KrisLetAngry]

Draft picks are step one of the process.

What people seem to miss is there is a whole list of stuff that needs done after that and the current team to my eyes does not tick enough of those boxes. Simply acquiring a slew of picks does... not much.

I will say that one of the things I am actually MORE optimistic for now than in years past is that Dubas beefed up the front office back to the level it should be after being consistently shrunk down for years and years, he is good at the draft table at least if history is any guide and he and his staff have done a good job bringing the farm up to speed. But there is a major hurdle in regards to player development at the NHL level and I don't even think I need to tell you what that is. I would say "we'll see next year" but honestly I've said that for years now and I'm tired of sounding like (more of) a fool.

Yes agreed.

Collecting draft picks is one thing. Using them for trades and hitting on some is step two.

I also agree we were running a skeleton crew on a billion dollar franchise.

One thing I also am excited about is Dubas and some of his hires from Toronto he brought here didn't have a ton of draft picks to hit on.

They nailed the draft picks they had.

Fraser Minten #38
knies #57 or 58
Bobby McMann undrafted and signed by leafs 2020.

I trust his and his staffs amateur scouting. We have not come close to finding players like this until very recently with Dubas picks. We may not know for a few years but I really do trust this front office to find us players.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You won't find me complaining much about Dubas and his staff re: the draft. No need to create problems that aren't presently there. There are plenty of real ones, after all.

 

[Ryder71]

Disingenuous comparison as always as you very well know Dubas acquired significant draft capital to take him on.

Right, we garnered draft capital and plan to use some of it very likely over the next couple of seasons. On a team going nowhere it was a good move. It's not as if we're cup contenders so why not get something for the future?

I'm all for incremental improvements PROVIDED there's some seismic shifts also. Hitting on our number one picks first and foremost.

 

[SEALBound]

I don't really see how acquisition cost means anything in this conversation.

If you are a manager and you hire someone you know is a shitty person, but you get 10k extra to hire him in your own pocket, you can't complain about how the work environment is shittier because you added a shitty person to it.

Let's not even get into the fact that if you want to talk about how complacency is eroding the room, Kevin Hayes was gifted top PP time.

If you're part of that room, why are you trying harder if being a 32 year old who doesn't give a shit gets on the top PP?

Atrocious example but par for the course.

Worker: Hey boss, that Gurgs guy is a real POS worker. Why'd you hire him!?
Manager: His mom gave me $10k to hire him.

No one is complaining about Kevin Hayes except you. All things considered, based on the 2nd + 3rd we got and his overall performance at his cap hit, I'm very much okay with Kevin Hayes.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

EK was with the sharks for 5 seasons. Taking out his 101 point season, he averaged/paced for ~55 points a season... basically exactly what he's done here. If Dumbo thought EK was gonna start banging out 100+ point seasons consistently, well then he's an idiot.

Eh fair enough I like to remove that really bad year he had where he was injured and only had 22 points myself. Or take all 6 years as a average. I fully believe he's more of in that 60 to 70 range for points.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Wait serious question where did the third come from? I thought it was just a second round pick?

And also Kevin Hayes isn't sinking this team single-handedly or anything close to it but something tells me that were it some rando guy making what Hayes makes and he just put up 20some points in 60some games while getting top PP time all year ya'll would be a LOT more irritated.

 

[SEALBound]

Wait serious question where did the third come from? I thought it was just a second round pick?

And also Kevin Hayes isn't sinking this team single-handedly or anything close to it but something tells me that were it some rando guy making what Hayes makes and he just put up 20some points in 60some games while getting top PP time all year ya'll would be a LOT more irritated.

We got STL's 2025 2nd initially. But they needed it back so they could offer sheet Holloway and Broberg, so we traded it back to them and got their 2026 2nd plus Ottawa's 2025 3rd.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

No one is complaining about Kevin Hayes except you. All things considered, based on the 2nd + 3rd we got and his overall performance at his cap hit, I'm very much okay with Kevin Hayes.

It just comes down to whether someone feels a 2nd and 3rd is worth 7 mil and a lineup spot. It's not like they're trading Hayes at the deadline, and he's not gonna make any difference in reaching or missing the playoffs.
Personally I think weaponizing our cap this way is exactly what we should be doing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Regardless of your preferred method of tackling the near and foreseeable future, it sucks shit as a fan to have such little faith in this team's ability to make correct decisions that you're left hoping another team poaches the HC that's been driving the bus for the entirety of the steep and steady decline since 2018--since firing him is simply out of the realm of reality, I guess.

 

[SEALBound]

It just comes down to whether someone feels a 2nd is worth 7 mil and a lineup spot. It's not like they're trading Hayes at the deadline, and he's not gonna make any difference in reaching or missing the playoffs.
Personally I think weaponizing our cap this way is exactly what we should be doing.

It was only $3.5mil. Philly still paying half.

But yeah, he was very serviceable as a 4th line wing or fill in center. Our success or lack of success this year are hardly at the hands of Kevin Hayes. To boot, he potted 13g and 23pts in 64gp while playing 12min/game in the bottom 6 with occasional 2PP duty. I don't have time to look up PP Pts/60, but I have to imagine they are decent.

And yeah, we weaponized cap space and got 2 good picks out of it. Of all the things to be made about, Kevin Hayes is way down on my list.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We got STL's 2025 2nd initially. But they needed it back so they could offer sheet Holloway and Broberg, so we traded it back to them and got their 2026 2nd plus Ottawa's 2025 3rd.

Huh... don't remember that for some reason but that means... very little coming from me. One would think they'd update literally any of the trade trackers anywhere because they all have it listed as just a second. But I managed to track down the info in a random article about the offer sheet.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It was only $3.5mil. Philly still paying half.

But yeah, he was very serviceable as a 4th line wing or fill in center. Our success or lack of success this year are hardly at the hands of Kevin Hayes. To boot, he potted 13g and 23pts in 64gp while playing 12min/game in the bottom 6 with occasional 2PP duty. I don't have time to look up PP Pts/60, but I have to imagine they are decent.

And yeah, we weaponized cap space and got 2 good picks out of it. Of all the things to be made about, Kevin Hayes is way down on my list.

He played on the top PP unit much of the year, no?

I mean I couldn't tell you WHY but he did I think. Unless I'm truly going insane.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm not sure what this soft rebuild is at this point.

To me it just looks like wasting years not fully choosing a direction.

If Dubas moves out one of Rust / Rakell and EK65 in the next couple months that isn't a soft rebuild.

It's soft in the sense that as long as Sidney Crosby is here the team will never completely bottom out. Maybe a bottom 5 finish is possible, but they won't be the worst team. And to get a legitimate shot at McKenna, they'd need to be the worst team. Even number two only has a 13.5% chance at the first overall pick and if that's the odds that fans want to rely on....well good luck.

Maybe being the worst team is possible if they move out all of Rust, Rakell, and EK65, but even then....I dunno. Sidney Crosby man. Unless he gets hurt he's gonna hulk us into enough wins to not be dead last I would think.

So it's probably another bottom 10 finish next year. Maybe even a bottom 5 if Dubas moves out enough guys. I doubt it will be enough to be dead last as long as Sid is here.

As for whether or not that's a wasted direction well....Washington proved you don't need a bunch of high draft picks to rebuild. But Dubas is going to need to find some steals like Washington did. We'll need to find our own Strome, and our own McMichael and Protas, etc. We'll need to find a Chychrun. That doesn't necessarily have to be done purely via the draft but it does need to happen.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It was only $3.5mil. Philly still paying half.

But yeah, he was very serviceable as a 4th line wing or fill in center. Our success or lack of success this year are hardly at the hands of Kevin Hayes. To boot, he potted 13g and 23pts in 64gp while playing 12min/game in the bottom 6 with occasional 2PP duty. I don't have time to look up PP Pts/60, but I have to imagine they are decent.

And yeah, we weaponized cap space and got 2 good picks out of it. Of all the things to be made about, Kevin Hayes is way down on my list.

It's 7.1 mil over 2 years. He's coming back next year, and we're not getting paid extra to take him on for that.

I thought he was fine. Not really a problem. His numbers would look better without the healthy scratches and less defensive deployment. He shot 13.3%, which was refreshing on a team like ours.

 

[Gurglesons]

Atrocious example but par for the course.

Worker: Hey boss, that Gurgs guy is a real POS worker. Why'd you hire him!?
Manager: His mom gave me $10k to hire him.

No one is complaining about Kevin Hayes except you. All things considered, based on the 2nd + 3rd we got and his overall performance at his cap hit, I'm very much okay with Kevin Hayes.

You're so pointless to have conversations with because everything you say is just extreme defense and focus on being right.

 

[Gurglesons]

It just comes down to whether someone feels a 2nd is worth 7 mil and a lineup spot. It's not like they're trading Hayes at the deadline, and he's not gonna make any difference in reaching or missing the playoffs.
Personally I think weaponizing our cap this way is exactly what we should be doing.

I don't have any problem with them weaponizing cap.

I just think it's funny to hear Dubas call out players for complacency while purposefully adding a player like Kevin Hayes who two teams have now paid to make go away.

It just strikes me as a bit silly to complain the guy who came to the franchise because he believed PIT may be able to win a cup is not "giving it his all" when you're surrounding him with players like Kevin Hayes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sidney Crosby is gonna be 38 years old, man. If you remove Rust, Rakell and EK from this team, they're very easily a bottom 3 team in the league imo. This team was like 3 regulation losses away from sitting 4th overall in the draft. A rookie Sid had over 100pts and that team finished with under 60pts.

 

[Pancakes]

Sidney Crosby is gonna be 38 years old, man. If you remove Rust, Rakell and EK from this team, they're very easily a bottom 3 team in the league imo. This team was like 3 regulation losses away from sitting 4th overall in the draft. A rookie Sid had over 100pts and that team finished with under 60pts.

I don't think you realize just how awful Chicago and San Jose were this year if you think that the Pens could have competed with that. Even without all of those three the Pens still wouldn't have come close to out tanking those teams.

Like do you think those guys are collectively worth 14 wins? Because that's how many more we would have had to lose to catch San Jose.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's soft in the sense that as long as Sidney Crosby is here the team will never completely bottom out. Maybe a bottom 5 finish is possible, but they won't be the worst team. And to get a legitimate shot at McKenna, they'd need to be the worst team. Even number two only has a 13.5% chance at the first overall pick and if that's the odds that fans want to rely on....well good luck.

Maybe being the worst team is possible if they move out all of Rust, Rakell, and EK65, but even then....I dunno. Sidney Crosby man. Unless he gets hurt he's gonna hulk us into enough wins to not be dead last I would think.

So it's probably another bottom 10 finish next year. Maybe even a bottom 5 if Dubas moves out enough guys. I doubt it will be enough to be dead last as long as Sid is here.

As for whether or not that's a wasted direction well....Washington proved you don't need a bunch of high draft picks to rebuild. But Dubas is going to need to find some steals like Washington did. We'll need to find our own Strome, and our own McMichael and Protas, etc. We'll need to find a Chychrun. That doesn't necessarily have to be done purely via the draft but it does need to happen.

Washington proved that if you take big swings and try to compete your team can compete.

They also didn't accept mediocrity from their players or coaching staff.

They've fired two coaches since they won a cup after Sullivan's.

They moved players at the deadline last season despite being in playoff position.

They had a plan. They committed on a yearly basis.

Also, I'm very confused how Dubas expects to follow "the Washington" model by trading EK and with Malkin likely retiring next year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah... well... anyway... is it just me or has Wendy's gone like... WAY downhill the last ten-ish years?

It used to be a favorite guilty fast food pleasure but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot barge pole, now.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

“ahh f*** tough loss tonight boys. Anyway- get showered up quick. Hayesy is hosting for the Pats game and kickoffs in 45 so get your asses over there”

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He played on the top PP unit much of the year, no?

I mean I couldn't tell you WHY but he did I think. Unless I'm truly going insane.

Hayes has soft hands, good passing and offensive instincts. That's how he put up 54 points in his last year in Philly, despite only shooting 8.6%.. That PP was 32nd in the league too, so he wasn't getting much help there from teammates.

He's just really slow.

He played 5:30 per game less with us than with Philly. 13g, 10a in 63 games with 12 mins and horrible linemates.
I like that he never takes penalties too.

 

[Pancakes]

Washington proved that if you take big swings and try to compete your team can compete.

What big swing should the Pens take this off season? The only one I can see as being feasible is trying to sign Marner. They should do that.

Beyond that? Doubt there's anything in trade that would be big enough to move the dial towards contention.

They also didn't accept mediocrity from their players or coaching staff.

Sullivan should be long gone, no question

They moved players at the deadline last season despite being in playoff position.

Not terribly relevant to where the Pens are currently. They've been out of the playoffs for 3 years and have been moving players.

You could argue the Pens should be moving even more guys I suppose.

They had a plan. They committed on a yearly basis.

Dubas has seemed pretty committed to the current plan.

Yeah... well... anyway... is it just me or has Wendy's gone like... WAY downhill the last ten-ish years?

It used to be a favorite guilty fast food pleasure but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot barge pole, now.

Depends greatly on the location. I have a Wendys in town that's absolute garbage, but there's another one that I go to which is much better.

 

[eXile3]

Yeah... well... anyway... is it just me or has Wendy's gone like... WAY downhill the last ten-ish years?

It used to be a favorite guilty fast food pleasure but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot barge pole, now.

They’re dead to me after getting rid of the vanilla frosty.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hayes has soft hands, good passing and offensive instincts. That's how he put up 54 points in his last year in Philly, despite only shooting 8.6%.. That PP was 32nd in the league too, so he wasn't getting much help there from teammates.

He's just really slow.

He played 5:30 per game less with us than with Philly. 13g, 10a in 63 games with 12 mins and horrible linemates.
I like that he never takes penalties too.

Right ok like I said you can't exactly pin this team's misfortunes on Kevin Hayes and for a 4th liner those are ok-ish numbers which is where his ES minutes certainly clocked in at.

But he DID play most of the year on the top unit, right?