Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I assume that if we hadn't re-signed Malkin and Letang, Crosby would have asked for a trade.

I think you are very, very, very wrong about that assumption. Not that he doesn't care about his buddies... he does, obviously.

Sid signed an extension in the middle of this team missing the playoffs and looking utterly hopeless. He's far from stupid... he knows the score, here. And if he doesn't his agent sure does.

Crosby already proved that he wants to be a one-team guy no matter what and that's no surprise at all to me.

 

[SEALBound]

if you call watching you and Emp go in circles exciting. While Sealbound types essays into the void. And everyone whines about the coach.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

I wonder if things didn't go well with dubas/sully today if we'd hear anything about it. I guess probably not

 

[Pancakes]

Crosby already proved that he wants to be a one-team guy no matter what and that's no surprise at all to me.

Imagine being the GM that let's Malkin and Letang walk and has to deal with a pissed off Sidney Crosby too. You think that GM would be long for their job? FSG may love Dubas but I assure you they don't love him more than Sid.

And if god forbid Sid got so mad that he wanted out, that would be an instant firing for whatever GM presided over that occurring no matter how much that GM thought it might be in the best interest of the team to tank.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I think you are very, very, very wrong about that assumption. Not that he doesn't care about his buddies... he does, obviously.

Sid signed an extension in the middle of this team missing the playoffs and looking utterly hopeless. He's far from stupid... he knows the score, here. And if he doesn't his agent sure does.

Crosby already proved that he wants to be a one-team guy no matter what and that's no surprise at all to me.

I agree that Crosby wants to be a one-team guy. Nonetheless, I don't think it's impossible that, if past events had happened differently, his conviction to be a one-team guy could've wavered. I also think Crosby has to be smart enough to realize that old teams don't win, and be accepting that the team is unlikely to go anywhere before his career is up.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Imagine being the GM that let's Malkin and Letang walk and has to deal with a pissed off Sidney Crosby too. You think that GM would be long for their job? FSG may love Dubas but I assure you they don't love him more than Sid.

And if god forbid Sid got so mad that he wanted out, that would be an instant firing for whatever GM presided over that occurring no matter how much that GM thought it might be in the best interest of the team to tank.

Well, luckily for us, that would've been Hextall and not Dubas.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Imagine being the GM that let's Malkin and Letang walk and has to deal with a pissed off Sidney Crosby too. You think that GM would be long for their job? FSG may love Dubas but I assure you they don't love him more than Sid.

And if god forbid Sid got so mad that he wanted out, that would be an instant firing for whatever GM presided over that occurring no matter how much that GM thought it might be in the best interest of the team to tank.

I guess the idea that signing the core was the genesis of their current struggles just irks me because I called it THEN that people would use that as an excuse. In reality it's just running cover for a team that has been run like shit for three GMs, now.

I agree that Crosby wants to be a one-team guy. Nonetheless, I don't think it's impossible that, if past events had happened differently, his conviction to be a one-team guy could've wavered. I also think Crosby has to be smart enough to realize that old teams don't win, and be accepting that the team is unlikely to go anywhere before his career is up.

I do not see a winnable scenario that involves essentially chasing Sid Crosby off the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because I don't think we have the roster in place to justify that. I think maybe in one more year (possibly two) we should be better positioned for that.

Right now our entire backend except for Karlsson is terrible and we have horrific goaltending too. And neither of those issues figure to be addressed this off season. Actually our d might be even worse going into next season becausae Dubas' comments about EK make it seem like he's pretty down on him and therefore I wouldn't be shocked to see EK get traded. I'm way higher on EK than the org is and he's our best dman by far. If we trade him our backend will be dire.

On forward I expect McGroarty and Koivunen to grab spots out of camp but I don't expect them to be impact players next year. They'll have good games but it's going to take them time to acclimate to the NHL. I'm not looking at one small stretch of good play at the end of the season when nobody cares and assuming that carries into next year. People forget how hard the NHL is. Those kids are gonna struggle. They'll play well too, but there will be struggles. In a year or two they'll hopefully have established themselves as quality NHLers, but I doubt it will be instantaneous.

So then we have no goaltending, a bad defensive unit that might get even worse, and we're also essentially a one line team on forward since Malkin does not have enough help and our bottom six is terrible.

Once the Pens make a few top 10 selections and hopefully some shrewd trades and signings they'll start to address those problems, but that's not going to happen over one off season. I don't see how it could even if Dubas wanted to.

Always have thought it makes way more sense to go for broke with Crosby performing then it does to be bad, but not bad enough as you can see this year to get actual top 5 talent.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I do not see a winnable scenario that involves essentially chasing Sid Crosby off the team.

I agree. I don't think it would be good for the team in the long-term. Players wouldn't take team-friendly deals if they know that they'll be chased off the team as soon as they're no longer at peak usefulness.
Nonetheless, the fact that we didn't chase him off the team has prolonged this specific rebuild. I am very okay with the fact that we prolonged this specific rebuild.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Failing upward in Seattle.



Kind of feel bad for Bylsma. He really did do a nice job with Coachella Valley, worked his way back up, and he gets the rug pulled out from under him after one year.

I also feel bad for Bylsma. I didn't really see that team make playoffs this year.

No way! We should keep dealing with them. We netted

Bunting
2027 4th

for

2027 3rd
Stillman
Graham
2025 3rd
2026 2nd
2027 4th
Tomasino
Novak

Keep Trotz on speed dial lmao

Whatever the exact package and picks were it's been great for us. Every win counts.

Nah I think it’s smart to recycle literally nothing into a million 2nd-4th, even 5th picks (let’s assume Novak and Tomasino are zeroes)

Say you have 15 of em over next 3 years. 12 end up being nothing. But one pick ends up a top 6 guy for next 10 years, one pick gets traded for a guy that’s a decent 5D for 5 years, and another pick becomes a cheap backup goalie for 3 years.

You turned nothing but roster space/cap space into some decent pieces just by playing volume game. Basically gave yourself so many trade chips that one had to turn into something. Gave your scouts so many draft picks that 1-2 had to hit.

It’s not what you want to trade Marcus Pettersson for… but it is what you want to use $5M of cap in a year you’re gonna miss the playoffs on. IMO.

Agreed.

Yup. Pionk just signed for 7 mill and he was approaching buyout candidate before he was rejuvenated by Samberg. Karlsson at 6-7 mill is pretty valuable.

Yep. Karlsson with 2 years left retained looks better than Poinks contract.

Not saying Pionk is bad just that NHL salary cap is going up.


--
I read so many damn pages of posts.

1.Rust or Rakell. I want one traded and one kept. Why? I wouldn't mind 1 top 6 vet winger. But I want space for the young guys to fight for.

2. Karlsson can be traded retained as long as we get a positive asset that is positive enough. Mid first minimum. Can be a player and mid first. Just anything.

3. Bowen Byram if we can get him id rather offer a one year contract and then extend him for 7 or 8 years. Willing to pay 8 million a year if he proves he can do it here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I agree. I don't think it would be good for the team in the long-term. Players wouldn't take team-friendly deals if they know that they'll be chased off the team as soon as they're no longer at peak usefulness.
Nonetheless, the fact that we didn't chase him off the team has prolonged this specific rebuild. I am very okay with the fact that we prolonged this specific rebuild.

This much success always comes with some kind of price. If that price is allowing legendary players to continue playing here until past their prime then so be it. Doubly so if they don't actually suck yet and are (again... TO THIS POINT) living up to their contracts.

The failure is on the team, management and coaching for not recognizing or simply not caring about mitigating the aging process by consistently working more REAL talent and young legs into the lineup. I appreciate that they have seemingly STARTED that process but they were allowed to recognize and execute on that plan years ago when it might have actually made a difference.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

This much success always comes with some kind of price. If that price is allowing legendary players to continue playing here until past their prime then so be it. Doubly so if they don't actually suck yet and are (again... TO THIS POINT) living up to their contracts.

The failure is on the team, management and coaching for not recognizing or simply not caring about mitigating the aging process by consistently working more REAL talent and young legs into the lineup. I appreciate that they have seemingly STARTED that process but they were allowed to recognize and execute on that plan years ago when it might have actually made a difference.

I was going to say that I don't think the aging process could've been mitigated, but then I thought about trades like the Hagel trade. Rutherford did try to bring in a younger player like Kapanen, but he should've known that that wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's kind of funny that Dubas is complaining about complacency with EK, when he brought in Kevin Hayes who has literally been kicked off two teams for not giving a f***.

 

[Jared Grayden]

It's kind of funny that Dubas is complaining about complacency with EK, when he brought in Kevin Hayes who has literally been kicked off two teams for not giving a f***.

I'd like Kyle to define what he means by complacent. Would he prefer if Karlsson make a public request for a trade to a contender like Jones did?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's kind of funny that Dubas is complaining about complacency with EK, when he brought in Kevin Hayes who has literally been kicked off two teams for not giving a f***.

Hey buddy... they got some DRAFT PICKS for that, ok? Not good ones mind you but DRAFT PICKS.

Get with the program. We're gonna run it back again this offseason and I will lecture you every day on why it's a brilliant plan that might one day yield us an Erik Christensen or possibly even a Colby Armstrong then cry all next year when the absolute sucking void of a player I brought in to achieve this lofty goal is every bit as horrific as he was with his last like five teams.

 

[Pancakes]

Always have thought it makes way more sense to go for broke with Crosby performing then it does to be bad, but not bad enough as you can see this year to get actual top 5 talent.

Perhaps, but once the choice was made to do this soft rebuild it's rather hard to pivot away from it.

Let's say Dubas goes all in on trying to make the playoffs next year. You're Kyle Dubas. How do you make that happen?

I don't see a way. This roster has way too many flaws. It's going to take at least one more year I think to do that.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Hey buddy... they got some DRAFT PICKS for that, ok? Not good ones mind you but DRAFT PICKS.

Get with the program. We're gonna run it back again this offseason and I will lecture you every day on why it's a brilliant plan that might one day yield us an Erik Christensen or possibly even a Colby Armstrong then cry all next year when the absolute sucking void of a player I brought in to achieve this lofty goal is every bit as horrific as he was with his last like five teams.

At the end of the trade didn't we get a 2nd and 3rd for a 5th and cap space.

I imagine 50% retained gets us another 2nd or 3rd next year.

The math on these picks hitting goes up every pick added. I look at a 2nd to be a 17% and 3rd at a 15% chance at making a NHL career.

 

[Gurglesons]

Perhaps, but once the choice was made to do this soft rebuild it's rather hard to pivot away from it.

Let's say Dubas goes all in on trying to make the playoffs next year. You're Kyle Dubas. How do you make that happen?

I don't see a way. This roster has way too many flaws. It's going to take at least one more year I think to do that.

I'm not sure what this soft rebuild is at this point.

To me it just looks like wasting years not fully choosing a direction.

If Dubas moves out one of Rust / Rakell and EK65 in the next couple months that isn't a soft rebuild.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

At the end of the trade didn't we get a 2nd and 3rd for a 5th and cap space.

I imagine 50% retained gets us another 2nd or 3rd next year.

The math on these picks hitting goes up every pick added. I look at a 2nd to be a 17% and 3rd at a 15% chance at making a NHL career.

Draft picks are step one of the process.

What people seem to miss is there is a whole list of stuff that needs done after that and the current team to my eyes does not tick enough of those boxes. Simply acquiring a slew of picks does... not much.

I will say that one of the things I am actually MORE optimistic for now than in years past is that Dubas beefed up the front office back to the level it should be after being consistently shrunk down for years and years, he is good at the draft table at least if history is any guide and he and his staff have done a good job bringing the farm up to speed. But there is a major hurdle in regards to player development at the NHL level and I don't even think I need to tell you what that is. I would say "we'll see next year" but honestly I've said that for years now and I'm tired of sounding like (more of) a fool.

 

[PamBallam]

EK was with the sharks for 5 seasons. Taking out his 101 point season, he averaged/paced for ~55 points a season... basically exactly what he's done here. If Dumbo thought EK was gonna start banging out 100+ point seasons consistently, well then he's an idiot.

 

[SEALBound]

It's kind of funny that Dubas is complaining about complacency with EK, when he brought in Kevin Hayes who has literally been kicked off two teams for not giving a f***.

Disingenuous comparison as always as you very well know Dubas acquired significant draft capital to take him on.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I... um... errrrr... significant?

I mean I know you despise Gurgs and all but that's... maybe a stretch.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas will move Karlsson as he brings short term deal with retention that teams needing RH PP and puck moving D man. Buffalo unless Dobson comes there way or another team looking for RH high end caliber D men will offer a nice package. 5 million total retention brIngs his actual salary to under 8,5 million. That is attractive to many teams.

 

[Gurglesons]

Disingenuous comparison as always as you very well know Dubas acquired significant draft capital to take him on.

I don't really see how acquisition cost means anything in this conversation.

If you are a manager and you hire someone you know is a shitty person, but you get 10k extra to hire him in your own pocket, you can't complain about how the work environment is shittier because you added a shitty person to it.

Let's not even get into the fact that if you want to talk about how complacency is eroding the room, Kevin Hayes was gifted top PP time.

If you're part of that room, why are you trying harder if being a 32 year old who doesn't give a shit gets on the top PP?

 

[eXile3]

Dubas trading for a 33 year old defender and then turning around trading away 28 year old 40 goal scorer 7 months later is one of the craziest swings in direction I’ve ever seen.

I feel like he never wanted to contend because it comes with measurable goals. Now he can just say his goal is to “get young players” and get away with collecting a pay check for the next several years.