Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXIIX: Rust out, Marner in, all part of the plan!

[Goalie_Bob]

The Bread Man

I figured it was for Henry.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

What is also clear is that the Buffalo Sabres are even further away from a Cup than we are...and they began the rebuild when we were just starting our playoff journey.

Weigh everything involved in why they failed, not just "got a lot of high picks and still suck". Management around their quality players. Ownership. Coaching. Lack of leadership. All of it.
Buffalo was not a well-run franchise by any stretch of the imagination.

And for the record, is anybody here arguing that we don't need the draft?

Arguing that they should try to make the playoffs entails willingly hurting the farm.
Can't do both successfully at the same time. Gotta pick a lane if you want to make serious progress on one of them. Time and time again, the league has showed us this.

Keep every first-round pick from now until the end of this franchise. That is a recipe for success. If you don't go all in, you never have to strip it down. Draft and develop. Draft and develop.

None of that has anything to do with losing.

Very unlikely that just keeping your one 1st a year leads to building a new core successfully.
If you're not drafting in the top 10 in any year from here, good luck with that formula.
You could do that if you had a ton of 1sts already.
But all the Pens have is 4 1sts over the next 3 years. Only one more than the default allowance from the league.
That's hoping for a super lucky hit rate.

They should boost their 4 1sts into 7 by trading Rust, Rakell, Karlsson.
They're doing a fairly good job with the 2nds and 3rds at least. Giving themselves a chance.

 

[Gurglesons]

Guentzel and a 1st for a Conn Smythe winning center.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Dubi better be working on trading TJ to Edmonton tonight.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

McKenna/McDavid 2026.

Let's do it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I love the offseason.

 

[TojoP]

Hey all. I've been looking for a new place to post and have been reading for a couple weeks. Thought the Guentzel debate would be a nice place to jump in.

I didn't like the trade. Most of them were guys Dubas was higher on than most people were.

Bunting was a decent enough middle six forward with edge, but his lack of backchecking made him a poor fit with Malkin. Koivunen was the only semi decent prospect and he came with a lot of question marks on how his game would translate, too many for the top prospect IMO. Ponomarov had one good AHL year but didn't show that kind of scoring before or since and quite frankly I never even thought he was better than Poulin. Luscious was a lottery ticket. And only a second. Just thought we should have gotten one premium asset for Jake.

I do agree the trade looks much better today. Koivunen surpassed my expectations and while I'm not ready to call him a top six wing he showed he can play the NA game pretty well so he has a shot. They seemingly nailed the Brunicke pick and might have found a late first round talent. We'll see about Novak and the other second.

Now that still doesn't make it a good trade to me. But at least they maximized the value of the limited assets they got, and one one of the lottery ticket prospects looks like he might work out.
.

 

[Perratrooper]

I know it might not perfectly align with the Pens current MO, but any interest in Girard for your last two seconds in 2026?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I know it might not perfectly align with the Pens current MO, but any interest in Girard for your last two seconds in 2026?

Nope.

If those seconds are traded it will be for someone who isn't 27.

 

[TojoP]

I don't think you are in the minority on this board lol.



If you're looking at our line up right now I'd think you'd probably see..

Koivunen - Crosby - Rust
McGroarty - Malkin - Rakell
Heinen - Novak - Tomasino
Dewar - Hayers - Acciari

I don't think that's where we end up on day one, but I don't really think that roster is that far from the Montreal / Ottawa rosters that made it.

That's the other issue with tanking lol. The East is legitimately f***ing terrible.

I don't think it's hard if they keep Rust and Rackell and the rookies play well to believe the Pens could have a competitive forward group.

Hey, maybe one of the young goalies will emerge or Jarry will be his best version and we even get good goaltending.

The part I have a hard time believing is that this defense core can be anywhere near competitive next year without a crazy trade that probably hurts us in the long run.

 

[Turin]

HFPens if Sullivan was goneView attachment 1051313

wait…

After expanding my ignore list by like 5 this is actually my HF experience now

 

[Bishop7979]

I know I'm not the only one who made the immediate Rust to NYR jokes after Sullivan got signed, but, I do wonder if there is a possibility of a rust for laf trade after all.

I feel like I've seen a few Laf is on the block "think pieces" this week and at over 7 mil for the foreseeable future would they move him to get a more productive player in rust, who costs 2 mil less on a shorter contact, and is they new coaches golden boy?

Would taking back Laf be worth the risk on our end? Can getting him out of New York, giving him a coach whose supposed strength is in development, and putting him on a line with Sid be a recipe for Laf potentially becoming a player with over 7mil long term?

 

[Bishop7979]

With the current guys on the roster and not trades/signings I would like them to at least start the season with something like

Geno Sid koivu
Rakell Novak Rust
Mcgroaty hallander tommy

Tommy Novak is somehow 28 years old, I want to know if there is any way he can be a second line player or not. If he can't produce between rust and rakell or can't stay healthy with that work load waive him 25 games into the year and be done with him.

But if they keep Geno at center they need to go rakell with koivu and mcgroaty with rust and keep the kids on their natural sides during their first full NHL seasons.

I don't think you are in the minority on this board lol.



If you're looking at our line up right now I'd think you'd probably see..

Koivunen - Crosby - Rust
McGroarty - Malkin - Rakell
Heinen - Novak - Tomasino
Dewar - Hayers - Acciari

I don't think that's where we end up on day one, but I don't really think that roster is that far from the Montreal / Ottawa rosters that made it.

That's the other issue with tanking lol. The East is legitimately f***ing terrible.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not sure why they bothered to keep Koppanen. He's such a generic player that I would rather see someone else get a chance over that actually has some potential to do something more. Soon to be 28yr old large wanker that is barely a .5ppg player in the AHL that has no real NHL future long term is a waste of a contract slot.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Hey all. I've been looking for a new place to post and have been reading for a couple weeks. Thought the Guentzel debate would be a nice place to jump in.

I didn't like the trade. Most of them were guys Dubas was higher on than most people were.

Bunting was a decent enough middle six forward with edge, but his lack of backchecking made him a poor fit with Malkin. Koivunen was the only semi decent prospect and he came with a lot of question marks on how his game would translate, too many for the top prospect IMO. Ponomarov had one good AHL year but didn't show that kind of scoring before or since and quite frankly I never even thought he was better than Poulin. Luscious was a lottery ticket. And only a second. Just thought we should have gotten one premium asset for Jake.

I do agree the trade looks much better today. Koivunen surpassed my expectations and while I'm not ready to call him a top six wing he showed he can play the NA game pretty well so he has a shot. They seemingly nailed the Brunicke pick and might have found a late first round talent. We'll see about Novak and the other second.

Now that still doesn't make it a good trade to me. But at least they maximized the value of the limited assets they got, and one one of the lottery ticket prospects looks like he might work out.
.

Welcome. Nice to see a new user.

It's just too early to judge is all. And it's important to remember that it was just 20 games of Guentzel, not him with term at 6M like he used to make. And keeping him would have been debilitating at 10M until he's 37, when the team isn't ready for runs in the playoffs.

What hurt the trade for us is that Bunting didn't play half as well at even-strength this year as he has in his career on average. But fortunately we managed to trade him for a good return, so it's fine.

Odds are we win this trade. Guentzel was an upcoming UFA, and he's now an overpaid winger that doesn't defend a lick. With all the pieces that we have from this, cumulatively it should be more than worth it.
Even if we got the 1st everyone was so hungry for, there's no guarantee at all that that pick turns into something better than Brunicke. In fact I'd say it's low odds, with a late 1st from Carolina.
And if we got that, we may not have the other pieces we have now, like Koivunen at peanut cost.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

With the current guys on the roster and not trades/signings I would like them to at least start the season with something like

Geno Sid koivu
Rakell Novak Rust
Mcgroaty hallander tommy

f***ing christ mate...

I just finally let hope back in my heart with Sullivan being fired and then you throw that top 9 at me? No mate...no.

Tommy Novak is somehow 28 years old, I want to know if there is any way he can be a second line player or not. If he can't produce between rust and rakell or can't stay healthy with that work load waive him 25 games into the year and be done with him.

But if they keep Geno at center they need to go rakell with koivu and mcgroaty with rust and keep the kids on their natural sides during their first full NHL seasons.

How about Rust or Rakell not Rust and Rakell. It will be a while mate, but it will happen, you will De-Sully your hockey thoughts and will finally start to get back to normal ideas again, just hang in there, maybe go to a pub, order a nice pint of Guinness and let it pass.


But if I had to throw out line-up ideas if Rust isn't dealt...

McGroarty, Crosby, Rust
Koivunen, Malkin, Rakell (I would rather see Ville on the RW where he's best but w/e)
UFA, Novak, Tomasino - I know we want to see youth, but Rutger, Koivunen, likely Pickering, etc are all going to be getting a good shot, but this team desperately needs a physical element again and I would start with this line with adding one. I would go after Tanner Jeannot, he's physical and I think he could maybe chip in more offensively then he's shown the last few teams, but he's a type of player the Pens have lacked for years because Sullivan as allergic to those types but in his mind felt Acciari was one of those types lol.

I am really curious what Dan Muse can do with the likes of Poulin, Puustinen, etc. Because if he can get them back on track, great, if not, just move on already since Sullivan's damage likely is settled in with them.

I don't really care for Acciari, Dewar (don't qualify), Heinen, and Hayes and I am hoping all of them are gone or at least 2-3 of them (Acciari and Heinen for sure). That leaves the 4th line some mix of Lizotte and one of the 4 wankers mentioned above. Honestly I would be happier seeing 4 of the 5 gone, keep Lizotte and play Poulin with him and see if Hallander makes the team. I think Hallander has a lot more to his game and I have been very high on him so I think he could be higher up in the line-up if he comes back to a coach that isn't a tit and is used properly or used at all.

If Dubas can move Rust the f*** out, like he should have last summer, great, that would give someone a shot on Sid's RW, but I would rather Rakell stayed with Geno. But if Dubas does dump Rust this summer, I would be curious to see something like:

McGroarty, Crosby, Rakell
Hallander, Malkin, Koivunen
Jeannot, Novak, Tomasino
Poulin, Lizotte, A.Hayes/?

Hallander was fantastic in Timra as a LW, that should be his best usage over trying to make him a C or anything else.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jake Guentzel trade discourse in June 2025

 

[OtherThingsILike]

The trade is already questionable enough that people are including the Bunting deal the season after as a direct part of that trade that should be considered as part of the total calculus. This is not often the grace given to all transactions or even most for that matter.

I personally am considering it as part of the calculus since I always assumed that Bunting was acquired to be flipped at some point later when there was a little bit less term on his contract.
Should we not consider the flipping of Luke Schenn as part of how we decide if the Bunting-to-Nashville trade was a good idea?
I'm also not sure that subsequent transactions aren't viewed as being part of the original transaction, but you might be right about that part in general. I don't know.

I'm not one to give value to draft picks and additional moves made by a trade.

Then why do you insist that San Jose got Dickinson as a result of the Karlsson trade?

I know it might not perfectly align with the Pens current MO, but any interest in Girard for your last two seconds in 2026?

I think that's probably fair value and I wouldn't hate it, but I'd be hoping to get him for a little bit cheaper than that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My goal for the off-season right now:

-Rakell to LA for Spence and pick #24
-Spence to Buffalo for Quinn
-Karlsson at $6 million to Carolina for Walker and Dallas’ 2026 1st
-Acciari, Pittsburgh’s 2026 2nd and 2025 3rd to the NYR for Miller’s rights
-Trade #11, Winnipeg’s 2026 2nd and NYR’s 2027 2nd to Seattle for #8
-Draft O’Brien at #8, Eklund at #12 and Boumedienne at #24
-Sign Saad to a 1 year, $4 million deal in UFA

McGroarty-Crosby-Quinn
Koivunen-Malkin-Rust
Saad-Novak-Tomasino
Dewar-Lizotte-Hallander
Hayes-Heinen

Miller-Letang
Pickering-Walker
Graves-Timmins
Shea

Jarry-Nedjelkovic

Doing this, you’d have 3 1sts, a 2nd and 2 3rds in 2025 and 2 1sts, a 2nd and 2 3rds in 2026 before taking into account any additional selling you’d do during the 2025-2026 season. I think Saad, Lizotte and Timmins are the obvious trade chips for next year, and you can likely get a minimum of a 3rd for all of them.

If you could also get a 3rd or 4th for Nedjelkovic this off-season, I’d jump on that for sure. Ideally a 2026 4th since they don’t have a 4th or 5th for next year currently. Run with Jarry-Blomqvist if you could also get a 3rd or 4th for Nedjelkovic.

 

[Andy P]

What date do the Rangers have to let us know if they are keeping number 12 or forfeiting ?

 

[Empoleon8771]

What date do the Rangers have to let us know if they are keeping number 12 or forfeiting ?

Think by next Wednesday, but the speculation right now is that the Penguins will get #12 this year because the Rangers want to throw an offer sheet in RFA.

 

[pistolpete11]

I know I'm not the only one who made the immediate Rust to NYR jokes after Sullivan got signed, but, I do wonder if there is a possibility of a rust for laf trade after all.

I feel like I've seen a few Laf is on the block "think pieces" this week and at over 7 mil for the foreseeable future would they move him to get a more productive player in rust, who costs 2 mil less on a shorter contact, and is they new coaches golden boy?

Would taking back Laf be worth the risk on our end? Can getting him out of New York, giving him a coach whose supposed strength is in development, and putting him on a line with Sid be a recipe for Laf potentially becoming a player with over 7mil long term?

It's an easy 'yes' from me. He's still only 23 and while I don't think he will ever live up to his 1OV hype, there's still time to improve. Even if he doesn't, the biggest difference between his production and Rust's is the PP.

If I was a Rangers fan, though, I'd be furious with that. They have an aging core. Trading a 23 year old for a 33 year old makes them even older. If Rust was a real difference maker, maybe, but he's a complimentary piece just like Laf.

I also wonder if these think pieces were thought up before they were able to dump Kreider for nothing. I imagine a big part of the argument was the cap, but Kreider going out without anything coming back alleviates a lot of that.

 

[chethejet]

Man lighten up Dubas did the best deal out there. Jake was leaving and made sense to move him. But unsigned, hard to get top assets for a player who won't do a sign and trade deal. As to moves, Dubas will make them as they meet his wants. He has cap space now for him to utilize plus lots of picks to offer. Koivunen, Brunicke will be very good players and the Bunting deal and Sullivan gone changes the roster management now. He has players who are in demand and getting back ready higher end young prospects and players is now the priority.

 

[Andy P]

Think by next Wednesday, but the speculation right now is that the Penguins will get #12 this year because the Rangers want to throw an offer sheet in RFA.

Rangers are going to be pretty busy in the next week I guess. Thats usually a recipe for disaster lol

 

[Fogel]

My goal for the off-season right now:

-Rakell to LA for Spence and pick #24
-Spence to Buffalo for Quinn
-Karlsson at $6 million to Carolina for Walker and Dallas’ 2026 1st
-Acciari, Pittsburgh’s 2026 2nd and 2025 3rd to the NYR for Miller’s rights
-Trade #11, Winnipeg’s 2026 2nd and NYR’s 2027 2nd to Seattle for #8
-Draft O’Brien at #8, Eklund at #12 and Boumedienne at #24
-Sign Saad to a 1 year, $4 million deal in UFA

McGroarty-Crosby-Quinn
Koivunen-Malkin-Rust
Saad-Novak-Tomasino
Dewar-Lizotte-Hallander
Hayes-Heinen

Miller-Letang
Pickering-Walker
Graves-Timmins
Shea

Jarry-Nedjelkovic

Doing this, you’d have 3 1sts, a 2nd and 2 3rds in 2025 and 2 1sts, a 2nd and 2 3rds in 2026 before taking into account any additional selling you’d do during the 2025-2026 season. I think Saad, Lizotte and Timmins are the obvious trade chips for next year, and you can likely get a minimum of a 3rd for all of them.

If you could also get a 3rd or 4th for Nedjelkovic this off-season, I’d jump on that for sure. Ideally a 2026 4th since they don’t have a 4th or 5th for next year currently. Run with Jarry-Blomqvist if you could also get a 3rd or 4th for Nedjelkovic.

The real question is would people have been fine with that return at the deadline? Speculation was getting pretty crazy the day of.

Also, I think it is a close call on whether Rust and Rakell would have more value at the draft or after the initial FA frenzy and teams have to move to back up plans with their very affordable cap hits.