Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXIIX: Rust out, Marner in, all part of the plan!

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm saying if a team offers you a 1st for them send them out even if it involves a cap dump coming back.

That's what Dubas should be doing. You can easily find a top six winger to pump value into during UFA or via trade.

This mindset that HFPens has about Rust and Rakell's importance and value as assets is pretty funny to witness.

We're talking about middle 6 wingers who have each recently posted 35pt and 45pt seasons. These are not guys the team absolutely needs to hang on to in order to eek out a tiny bit more value from. The returns are important but not franchise altering.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm DEFINITELY not calling anyone dumb or anything like that... far from it. I have no room to talk lol. But it's just weird to me how one day trading everything that moves for a second round pick is smart and savvy and needed to start happening yesterday but the next day we need to hold out to get every ounce out of two players every team has.

Like... just say ya'll really like Rickard Rakell and Bryan Rust for some reason. It's all good. I don't get it but it's all good.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm DEFINITELY not calling anyone dumb or anything like that... far from it. I have no room to talk lol. But it's just weird to me how one day trading everything that moves for a second round pick is smart and savvy and needed to start happening yesterday but the next day we need to hold out to get every ounce out of two players every team has.

Like... just say ya'll really like Rickard Rakell and Bryan Rust for some reason. It's all good. I don't get it but it's all good.

I think there can be some nuance here where they should absolutely be selling guys, but if the offers are shit, you shouldn't trade them for the sake of trading them. Not everything has to be so black and white.

 

[IcedCapp]

Oh, man, IC, have I got some new for you!

we traded for Jordan Stalll so we can play Geno on his wing?!!??!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why would the returns be shit? Nobody's selling, teams are in a frenzy to keep up with the roster arms race, there's only so many Marners, Ehlers, Boesers, etc. to go around on July 1st, we're already hearing reports that teams are seriously interested in Rust, there was a market for Rakell at the TDL.

I'd trade Rakell for a 1st+prospect at the draft. I'd trade Rust for the same return as soon as his NTC drops and the dust settles, when teams have missed out on big names in FA.

Take the two 1sts and a couple of Koivunen-caliber prospects and tell Rust and Rakell to pack their shit. Simple. /shrug

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Rossi has been less....Rossi the last couple of years. Ever since he did that article on Hextall with Yohe, he kind of decided that might be the joke of an article that makes him want to change his style and not be such a massive wankbucket anymore or as frequently. Because he's posted some articles that also sort of conflict things Yohe thinks and I think they don't see eye to eye on topics anymore and I wonder if it started with Sullivan lol.

But Rossi seemed to always have more info on Geno, for him to be the quietest, says a lot when a shit stain like Yohe posts something dumb, which is just a normal Yohe thing to do.

He also seems to be doing more national stories than Penguins stories. So that might be part of it. I also know he's been open about some of his health problems, and I'm sure that's impacted his workload a bit.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think there can be some nuance here where they should absolutely be selling guys, but if the offers are shit, you shouldn't trade them for the sake of trading them. Not everything has to be so black and white.

I would be shocked if the returns are truly shit.

The league's GMs have cap money burnin' holes in their pockets and EVERYONE seems to think they are contenders right now.

But yeah I mean... obviously if the calls the Penguins are getting consist of "lol we'll give you Bunting and third for Rust" you hang up. But that seems unlikely. And I absolutely think a lot of fans are over-valuing these two players. Which is fine... we are Penguins fans. But they just aren't guys that Dubas should be holding out to get that blue chip prospect for... those calls are never coming.

 

[T1K]

Everyone is in agreement of what the ideal price is for Rust/Rakell, yet there is still an argument somehow. Summer boredom at its finest… one more week guys, we can do it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it's funny too but seriously... what's really the point of complaining about people having hockey discussions? Is this not why we're here?

I'm sorry I can't help but get a little insulted sometimes because I feel like this narrative crops up every time I have a slow day to get on here and post lol

Maybe I should take the hint eh?

 

[Ulf5]

I bet all these sources work in sales for the Pens

Or checkout at Dunkin. yohe....

 

[T1K]

I think it's funny too but seriously... what's really the point of complaining about people having hockey discussions? Is this not why we're here?

I'm sorry I can't help but get a little insulted sometimes because I feel like this narrative crops up every time I have a slow day to get on here and post lol

Maybe I should take the hint eh?

I came to this thread looking for discussion as this is the most intriguing offseason we’ve had in a while. I just thought it was bizarre to see someone spark up an argument over a throwaway thought of “we should maximize our assets”

 

[Darren McCord]

This mindset that HFPens has about Rust and Rakell's importance and value as assets is pretty funny to witness.

We're talking about middle 6 wingers who have each recently posted 35pt and 45pt seasons. These are not guys the team absolutely needs to hang on to in order to eek out a tiny bit more value from. The returns are important but not franchise altering.

Meh I mean you never know. Look at the return for petts. With some luck it could be a top 10 pick in a deep draft. You never know where these picks could end up.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I came to this thread looking for discussion as this is the most intriguing offseason we’ve had in a while. I just thought it was bizarre to see someone spark up an argument over a throwaway thought of “we should maximize our assets”

Alright well you guys have fun talking about all this intriguing stuff I guess. My bad.

 

[T1K]

Alright well you guys have fun talking about all this intriguing stuff I guess. My bad.

This is a confusing response. Seems like there’s some misunderstanding here

My comment was about Gurglesons, who is still upset about the Jake Guentzel trade 2 years later.

 

[Gurglesons]

HFPens if Gurglesons was gone...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Meh I mean you never know. Look at the return for petts. With some luck it could be a top 10 pick in a deep draft. You never know where these picks could end up.

Sure, and that's why I'm hoping these dudes are being aggressively shopped to teams like Anaheim, Buffalo, Chicago, Detroit, or San Jose first and foremost.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

People are very sensitive about discussing the trade that sent perhaps the best/most important wing this team has had in the Crosby era packing, huh?

The fact is that trade IS shaping up to be mediocre. Maybe worse. The centerpiece prospect at the time just said "see ya" so it's as relevant today as it was the day it was made. The trade is already questionable enough that people are including the Bunting deal the season after as a direct part of that trade that should be considered as part of the total calculus. This is not often the grace given to all transactions or even most for that matter.

I get that ya'll hate Gurgs but just because you don't like someone it doesn't make them wrong.

EDIT: As I have already said if you can get a middle six forward out of one of Koi and Whatshisname and a decent defenseman in Brunicke then you can be happy enough I suppose. But I think it's totally fair for people to continue to view that deal with increasing suspicion. Jake had his issues but the guy is a 80ish point 40ish goal forward. They don't just pop out of the woodwork every day.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

This mindset that HFPens has about Rust and Rakell's importance and value as assets is pretty funny to witness.

We're talking about middle 6 wingers who have each recently posted 35pt and 45pt seasons. These are not guys the team absolutely needs to hang on to in order to eek out a tiny bit more value from. The returns are important but not franchise altering.

Did you just call them middle-sixers?

Rakell has has 60 and 70 point seasons in the last 3 years.
Rust is 16th among right wingers in point per game since 2020.

That Rust season you're referring to is by far the worst out of the last 6 years, and happened in 2022-23.
You really think GM's are gonna care when he has 121 points over his last 133 games (2 seasons)?

Since we don't know what the picks we get in return will turn into, we can't assess how much it will affect the franchise. They could be nothing or pivotal.

 

[Jared Grayden]

People are very sensitive about discussing the trade that sent perhaps the best/most important wing this team has had in the Crosby era packing, huh?

The fact is that trade IS shaping up to be mediocre. Maybe worse. The centerpiece prospect at the time just said "see ya" so it's as relevant today as it was the day it was made. The trade is already questionable enough that people are including the Bunting deal the season after as a direct part of that trade that should be considered as part of the total calculus. This is not often the grace given to all transactions or even most for that matter.

I get that ya'll hate Gurgs but just because you don't like someone it doesn't make them wrong.

Koivunen was widely regarded as the highest value prospect in that deal. Brunicke has moved to 2nd. Guentzel was a rental winger in a much softer market than this year's TDL. Yes it could up being a disastrous deal still. It could also end up very beneficial. Too early to tell. That's the nature of trading for futures as a seller.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Koivunen was the widely regarded as the highest value prospect in that deal. Brunicke has moved to 2nd. Guentzel was a rental winger in a much softer market than this year's TDL. Yes it up being a disastrous deal still. It could also end up very beneficial. Too early to tell.

That is not the narrative I remember at all but I will take your word for it. It seems to me that Koi upped his value big time just this past year in the AHL but was largely regarded as boom/bust prior to that with Pono being the sure NHL bet. Though all were rated about the same IIRC.

Which is to say not one of their four best.

 

[T1K]

I was critical of Dubas prior to last season too, but imo he’s totally redeemed himself with how many trades he won this year. He flipped so many useless players into good draft capital.

 

[Gurglesons]

That is not the narrative I remember at all but I will take your word for it. It seems to me that Koi upped his value big time just this past year in the AHL but was largely regarded as boom/bust prior to that with Pono being the sure NHL bet. Though all were rated about the same IIRC.

Which is to say not one of their four best.

Everyone figured we were getting Blake, but then immediately Koivunen and Ponomarev became great prospects.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Sidney Crosby is also linemate dependent. Malkin had arm and knee issues that he's had sorted in that time frame you're talking about. So what makes Malkin lesser than Sid when both need better linemates?

Oh right, the coach took away the linemates that Malkin did well with, to make sure Crosby did better. Even going as far as moving Malkin to wing to play with Crosby.

Blokes can go eat shit with the call outs to Geno while sitting there ignorant as shit to Crosby having the same f***ing issues. Sid had Jake helping him get a f***ton of points, then when he didn't, they happily f***ed over Geno to make sure he had someone else rather than trying youth or anyone else with Crosby, the go to move was lets keep taking whomever does best with Geno, to put with Crosby and then blame Malkin for struggling with lesser linemates as his downfall due to age.

This isn't opinion either mate.

THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT THEY f***ING DID.

Crosby has been much better than Malkin since 2021. That is a fact. And as I have openly said that Crosby is an average 1C, I am not a Crosby ball washer.

I just can't with the bitching about Malkin's linemates at this point, with the Penguins dead in the water for 5 years. He knew he was signing up to stay second fiddle when he re-signed in 2022. He has been fine. Sometimes great, sometimes terrible, sometimes just ok. Altogether he has had a respectable late career following a hall-of-fame early and mid career. And he can stay in as long as he wants, although it's gonna get bad soon.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Everyone figured we were getting Blake, but then immediately Koivunen and Ponomarev became great prospects.

Well... Koivunen, at least.

Now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is Blake even a better prospect than Koivunen at this point? Feels silly to act like the Penguins somehow got a bad return because they got an undersized guy with 2nd line upside over another undersized guy with 2nd line upside.

Ponomarev and Lucius looks like whiffs in that trade but Koivunen and Brunicke look great and they got annother 2nd for Bunting. The Guentzel trade is a big win if you can get 2 quality young NHLers out of it.