Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXIIX: Rust out, Marner in, all part of the plan!

[Jacob]

I recall Spezza praising Koppanen's leadership with the kids in WB/S. I believe that was a big reason he got called up, more as a reward for being a solid citizen down there. So I like that signing. Might as well have depth that help the young guys.

 

[pistolpete11]

Just like the trade deadline, Dubas wanted a king's ransom for Rakell and rightfully so he should do the same with Rust and Rakell. Just like you said, he has time. He is not forced to get rid of them. Karlsson I could see more than anything because because he sucks a defense so if they get a somewhat decent return I think you got to pull the trigger on that one.

Karlsson is trickier because he's so polarizing (and more expensive). Rust and Rakell are pretty plug'n'play for any team. Karlsson needs to be in the right situation.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I'm just saying, people on here are acting like it's a forgone conclusion they are going to get traded during the offseason. A scenario where none of them get traded is very easy to see, though.

Pens : We want a 1st.
Other team : We'll give you a 2nd and a meh prospect.
Pens : We'll wait.

As they say "timing is everything"
And I think waiting to trade these guys who are already in their 30's is playing with a ticking time bomb. I'm waiting for the report that Rust blew out his knee walking up his stairs or another Straka bizarre weight lifting tragedy.

If these guys were in their mid to late 20's, ok I get holding on and possible maximizing value. But every month that goes by, the runway ending on Rust/Rak/Ek's careers gets closer.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Only thing I can think of is like July 3rd when teams miss out on any FAs they might pony up the price to get a decent consolation prize on a manageable contract.

For sure but someone like Rust could easily Robert Lang himself and then you are kinda stuck holding the bag and have to circle back when he's healthy and his value is significantly decreased. Same with Raks. And of course both are inconsistent complimentary type players that rely a lot on their linemates. EK is in a slightly different boat I suppose but he's hardly a spring chicken himself.

I'm just saying, people on here are acting like it's a forgone conclusion they are going to get traded during the offseason. A scenario where none of them get traded is very easy to see, though.

Pens : We want a 1st.
Other team : We'll give you a 2nd and a meh prospect.
Pens : We'll wait.

I guess I just don't think all three players in question are worth much more than a low first in total value for various reasons. You might get more out of Rust because of reputation or EK if you heavily retain. But they just aren't these big ticket trading chips some seem to think they are. Nearly every team has a Raks and Rust. EK is a 10+ million dollar 50ish point defensemen with some miles on him.

But yes I mean... I do not begrudge Dubas at all in trying to get the best deal. It's part of his job. But this team really needs to start moving decisively, now. This picking around the edges for years and shrugging and saying "maybe later" is tired and wholly ineffectual. There aren't any more good excuses for standing around and seeing what happens.

 

[Ryder71]

The Pens should 100% be in on Isaac Howard. Perhaps Tampa would be interested in something involving Rust or Rakell?

You're right THEY SHOULD be in on this. We have the NHL assets and/or draft capital to make it happen.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

For sure but someone like Rust could easily Robert Lang himself and then you are kinda stuck holding the bag and have to circle back when he's healthy and his value is significantly decreased. Same with Raks. And of course both are inconsistent complimentary type players that rely a lot on their linemates. EK is in a slightly different boat I suppose but he's hardly a spring chicken himself.



I guess I just don't think all three players in question are worth much more than a low first in total value for various reasons. You might get more out of Rust because of reputation or EK if you heavily retain. But they just aren't these big ticket trading chips some seem to think they are. Nearly every team has a Raks and Rust. EK is a 10+ million dollar 50ish point defensemen with some miles on him.

And as Bill Belicheck used to say: I'd rather trade a guy a year too early vs a year too late

 

[Andy P]

I went onto the TB Lightning board to ask what they wanted for Howard, it seems as if as long as they get a 2nd round pick and a defensive prospect that they would be willing to part. Howard doesnt want to play the AHL though so idk how some teams would fair with that. I would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder and Finn Harding or Emil Pieniniemi if thats the case lol

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I bet all these sources work in sales for the Pens

 

[Lust for Life]

I went onto the TB Lightning board to ask what they wanted for Howard, it seems as if as long as they get a 2nd round pick and a defensive prospect that they would be willing to part. Howard doesnt want to play the AHL though so idk how some teams would fair with that. I would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder and Finn Harding or Emil Pieniniemi if thats the case lol

I'd put him straight onto the NHL team if I was the Pens and acquired him. Not like we're trying to be good anyway.

 

[Freeptop]

As expected, the reports about Malkin and his tenure with Pittsburgh are inaccurate. Doesnt mean that this wont be his last year but Yohe needs to get better sources. Trying to make pens management seem like they are forcing a player out (regardless of who or what team) is never a good look

I have a feeling that things went like this:
1. Yohe talks to someone that tells him the Pens aren't signing Malkin to an extension this summer.
2. Yohe takes that as the Pens aren't re-signing Malkin at all, and writes his article based on his misunderstanding.
3. Kingerski then reaches out, and a similar source tells him the same thing: Pens aren't signing Malkin to an extension this year, but due to Yohe's report (and all the amplification it's gotten elsewhere), they further clarify that no decision has been made beyond this coming season.

Sadly, it seems like Kingerski is the only one who has bothered to reach out to the Pens to clarify this. TSN, for example, just cited Yohe's reporting, without doing any follow-up of their own. (Seriously, TSN, you couldn't even do as much as Kingerski on this one?)

 

[Jacob]

Just eat Karlsson's salary. 30-40% should get us a 1st and maybe even another prospect for him. He's a bargain at that price.

 

[T1K]

Wouldn't they need to send some salary back? I don't really see Rust/Rakell being enough (if any at all) of an upgrade on anyone in their top 6 to bother shuffling the money around to make it work.

Yeah I would imagine we’d have to retain or take a bad contract. Tampa’s forward depth is atrocious outside of the 1st line. Getting a vet forward would be more appealing to them than getting a draft pick. Servalli is a moron, but he speculated they would be aggressive this offseason.

 

[pistolpete11]

For sure but someone like Rust could easily Robert Lang himself and then you are kinda stuck holding the bag and have to circle back when he's healthy and his value is significantly decreased. Same with Raks. And of course both are inconsistent complimentary type players that rely a lot on their linemates. EK is in a slightly different boat I suppose but he's hardly a spring chicken himself.



I guess I just don't think all three players in question are worth much more than a low first in total value for various reasons. You might get more out of Rust because of reputation or EK if you heavily retain. But they just aren't these big ticket trading chips some seem to think they are. Nearly every team has a Raks and Rust. EK is a 10+ million dollar 50ish point defensemen with some miles on him.

But yes I mean... I do not begrudge Dubas at all in trying to get the best deal. It's part of his job. But this team really needs to start moving decisively, now. This picking around the edges for years and shrugging and saying "maybe later" is tired and wholly ineffectual. There aren't any more good excuses for standing around and seeing what happens.

They don't, though. They are under contract for 3 more years. They don't have enough prospects that they need the roster space. They don't need the cap space for anything. Trading them now instead of trading them in 6 months doesn't expedite the rebuild at all.

For the sake of argument, if teams are offering a 2nd now, I think even if they fall off, they bring back a 3rd at the deadline. The difference between a 2nd and 3rd is not nearly as big of a difference between a 1st and a 2nd. So holding out for a 1st is the right call IMO.

 

[Sideline]

Just eat Karlsson's salary. 30-40% should get us a 1st and maybe even another prospect for him. He's a bargain at that price.

When you look at who is out there for right shot defense this summer, I believe EK65 has quite a bit of value with retention. Aaron Ekblad, Tony DeAngelo, John Klingberg, Brent Burns, and Cody Ceci are the 5 best pending UFAs. You have to figure a couple of those guys re-sign or in Burns' case maybe retires.

There will be a competitive market for EKs services because the alternative for a dozen teams will be giving one of the above guys similar or even more money and term.

 

[Ryder71]

I went onto the TB Lightning board to ask what they wanted for Howard, it seems as if as long as they get a 2nd round pick and a defensive prospect that they would be willing to part. Howard doesnt want to play the AHL though so idk how some teams would fair with that. I would be willing to give up a 2nd rounder and Finn Harding or Emil Pieniniemi if thats the case lol

My precious sweet friend there's a decided difference between the value between Harding and Pieniniemi. Harding has much lower value and would be perceived more as a throw in. Where has PIE'S value is top three D prospect in the ORG.

The problem is, if the asking price is a mere 2hd and D prospect, which I suspect isn't enough, almost every team could meet that price.

Just spit ballin but Pickering for Howard might be more of what they'd be looking for.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They don't, though. They are under contract for 3 more years. They don't have enough prospects that they need the roster space. They don't need the cap space for anything. Trading them now instead of trading them in 6 months doesn't expedite the rebuild at all.

Well no but it expedites their decrease in value. These guys aren't in their 20s anymore and are far from superstars who have a great chance of remaining top producers throughout most of their 30s. They are aging complimentary wings. EK can be sold a bit differently with some massaging and lots of salary retention but those two are what they are.

If they want to keep them then fine whatever... I just don't think it's very smart if the idea is to build out your futures. They aren't a lot but they are the best three trade chips on the team and at least from where I'm standing the time to cash out isn't just here but has BEEN here. I don't think their value goes anywhere but down from here.

 

[Ryder71]

Just eat Karlsson's salary. 30-40% should get us a 1st and maybe even another prospect for him. He's a bargain at that price.

I have no doubt we would eat a sizable portion of his salary. As to what we could get for him is a bit murky. I'm not sure where his value is, but it'd certainly be solid. My guess would be EITHER a top three prospect from another team or a mid to late 1st AND a depth NHLer and B- level prospect.

 

[SEALBound]

If Malkin wants to come back, he'll come back. Might not be for $6mil but they'll sign him. Why wouldn't you? Not like he's blocking anyone. Not like having him is the difference between tanking and playoffs. Such a none issue.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think a 2nd and Pieniniemi for Howard would be as high as I'd be willing to go, with noting that I don't really want to trade Pieniniemi. If they want a better prospect than that for Howard, I'd look elsewhere.

Pieniniemi was a PPG defenseman in the OHL this year and played some big minutes for Finland at the WJC this year. I don't think his upside is all that high, think pre-breakout Niskanen (#4/5 2-way PMD that can be a PPQB), but the prospect pool is so barren for LD that I'm really hesitant trading any other guys.

 

[Jacob]

When you look at who is out there for right shot defense this summer, I believe EK65 has quite a bit of value with retention. Aaron Ekblad, Tony DeAngelo, John Klingberg, Brent Burns, and Cody Ceci are the 5 best pending UFAs. You have to figure a couple of those guys re-sign or in Burns' case maybe retires.

There will be a competitive market for EKs services because the alternative for a dozen teams will be giving one of the above guys similar or even more money and term.

Also interesting that 1 of the teams in need of a RD, Carolina, has already tried and therefore would not be interested in TDA and Burns.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Just eat Karlsson's salary. 30-40% should get us a 1st and maybe even another prospect for him. He's a bargain at that price.

1 hand I agree with this.
But there's also part of me that is curious what EK could do with a different coach. And I'm usually a pessimist ...

 

[BusinessGoose]

I bet all these sources work in sales for the Pens

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[Khelandros]

I have a feeling that things went like this:
1. Yohe talks to someone that tells him the Pens aren't signing Malkin to an extension this summer.
2. Yohe takes that as the Pens aren't re-signing Malkin at all, and writes his article based on his misunderstanding.
3. Kingerski then reaches out, and a similar source tells him the same thing: Pens aren't signing Malkin to an extension this year, but due to Yohe's report (and all the amplification it's gotten elsewhere), they further clarify that no decision has been made beyond this coming season.

Sadly, it seems like Kingerski is the only one who has bothered to reach out to the Pens to clarify this. TSN, for example, just cited Yohe's reporting, without doing any follow-up of their own. (Seriously, TSN, you couldn't even do as much as Kingerski on this one?)

They are too busy circle jerking LeBrun being the next Commissioner.

 

[Zirakzigil]

If Geno wants to play another year, he will be signed. Sid will see to that, just like he told both sides to get a deal done last contract. Its one of the very few times we know Sid has personally gotten involved with player/contract talks.

 

[A Muse to Use]

The Fan is having Rob(Gerbil Boy)Rossi on to discuss Geno future, this is a guy who had no clue who was going to be named Head Coach, So I am sure he has insight in what Geno's future is