Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXIIX: Rust out, Marner in, all part of the plan!

[plaidchuck]

Not really. People making that kind of money can easily get around any tax issue.

You can't hand waive it that easily, just because you're rich doesn't mean you dodge all taxes. Especially for the players who get actual wage earnings instead of things like tax free loans to themselves and miniscule capital gains taxes like the uber rich.

Also, other than for a handful of teams, a player will have 42 games out of state which they will likely pay non-resident tax on for working in that state, so having 42 games tax free can make a big difference there.

It can go both ways though. Tanev notably decided to stay in Canada because if his residency status during the majority of the year changed to the US he would have been hit with an exit tax from the Canadian government. So as I said before, it's not the primary driver of where players sign but especially with the recent rollercoasters in the economy it definitely factors into the entire package of what the players sign for with a team.

 

[Factorial]

We really tanking eh

If they trade Rust and Rack-all, they're tanking.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Taxes are just one of many things to consider when signing a contract. They're not as deal-breaking as some losers in the media make them seem. If you think that a contract is magically worth 2M more in one place as opposed to another, then there really isn't much worth discussing cause you've taken the bait.

 

[JRS91]

I remember when people thought Crosby would be mad when they traded Armstrong for Hossa.

Then he was going to leave to Montreal if Dupuis or Kunitz were traded. The guy wants to win, he's never leaving. If moving Rust and Rakell takes a year off being bad and bringing in fresh talent, I'm sure he's fine with it.

 

[plaidchuck]

Taxes are just one of many things to consider when signing a contract. They're not as deal-breaking as some losers in the media make them seem. If you think that a contract is magically worth 2M more in one place as opposed to another, then there really isn't much worth discussing cause you've taken the bait.

It is one of many things, indeed. But there absolutely is a net value difference, just by using simple math. 13.3% state tax for 41+ duty days in Cali vs 0% if you're on a Florida team for example.

 

[plaidchuck]

I remember when people thought Crosby would be mad when they traded Armstrong for Hossa.

Then he was going to leave to Montreal if Dupuis or Kunitz were traded. The guy wants to win, he's never leaving. If moving Rust and Rakell takes a year off being bad and bringing in fresh talent, I'm sure he's fine with it.

You think the team just needs a year to be competitive? Come on, man..

 

[Ryder71]

sid gets pissed and wants out, tell him to drop his nt and then sid gets traded for a haul.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

It is one of many things, indeed. But there absolutely is a net value difference, just by using simple math. 13.3% state tax for 41+ duty days in Cali vs 0% if you're on a Florida team for example.

Ugh, that's not how it works. How hard is it to understand? No multi-millionaire pays straight-up taxes. It also doesn't take into account property/sales/etc, taxes.

It also doesn't take into account signing bonuses, which is how most at that level get the majority of their money.

Honestly, if you're understanding of contracts is this basic, then it's not worth discussing. Keep drinking the Toronto media cool-aid.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

 

[Freeptop]

Ugh, that's not how it works. How hard is it to understand? No multi-millionaire pays straight-up taxes. It also doesn't take into account property/sales/etc, taxes.

It also doesn't take into account signing bonuses, which is how most at that level get the majority of their money.

Honestly, if you're understanding of contracts is this basic, then it's not worth discussing. Keep drinking the Toronto media cool-aid.

Additionally, there's cost-of-living differences. If players really only cared about their final take-home pay, they'd all want to go to St. Louis, as Missouri has the lowest cost of living out of any state with an NHL team. Or maybe Columbus, as the next lowest.
(Source: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/opportunity/affordability/cost-living )

Florida, incidentally, ranks 40th out of 50 states for lowest cost of living.

As it turns out, having something to do when they're not playing hockey also factors into things, which Florida just so happens to also be good at.

The funny thing is that back when the Lightning and Panthers weren't any good, we never heard anything about tax rates being some sort of competitive advantage. Funny how that changed after those teams got good.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Ugh, that's not how it works. How hard is it to understand? No multi-millionaire pays straight-up taxes. It also doesn't take into account property/sales/etc, taxes.

It also doesn't take into account signing bonuses, which is how most at that level get the majority of their money.

Honestly, if you're understanding of contracts is this basic, then it's not worth discussing. Keep drinking the Toronto media cool-aid.

Raga, you've been posting 1-sentence variations of "f***ing losers" since 2015.
I looked it up. There's 37 pages of the same thing, over and over.

Who are you to look down on anyone for being too basic?

 

[Empoleon8771]

As a buy low candidate, how would people feel about targeting Lawson Crouse to fill the 3rd line LW spot? I'd really like a bigger guy with some physicality for that LW spot if Novak and Tomasino will be the other 2 guys on that line, and Crouse is both big and really physical. He's coming off a dreadful year (12 goals and 18 points in 82 games), but put up up an average of 25 goals and 45 points per 82 games in the 3 seasons before that.

In an ideal world, you could run with this top-9:

McGroarty-Crosby-Rakell
Koivunen-Malkin-Rust
Crouse-Novak-Tomasino

Which honestly looks like a good top-9 to me. Crouse can also replace Bunting as a net front guy on the PP, so you can have McGroarty on one unit and Crouse on another unit as a net front PP guy.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not surprising, but again, he didn't do much to put himself back on the radar. He's never coming back though, lol.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

As a buy low candidate, how would people feel about targeting Lawson Crouse to fill the 3rd line LW spot? I'd really like a bigger guy with some physicality for that LW spot if Novak and Tomasino will be the other 2 guys on that line, and Crouse is both big and really physical. He's coming off a dreadful year (12 goals and 18 points in 82 games), but put up up an average of 25 goals and 45 points per 82 games in the 3 seasons before that.

In an ideal world, you could run with this top-9:

McGroarty-Crosby-Rakell
Koivunen-Malkin-Rust
Crouse-Novak-Tomasino

Which honestly looks like a good top-9 to me. Crouse can also replace Bunting as a net front guy on the PP, so you can have McGroarty on one unit and Crouse on another unit as a net front PP guy.

I'm not sure how buy-low Crouse will be, but if he is as low as you think he'll be, sure, I think it's a good idea.

 

[Pancakes]

Not surprising, but again, he didn't do much to put himself back on the radar. He's never coming back though, lol.

Wouldn't say never. The Penguins still own his rights and Sullivan is gone.

I thought we'd never see Hallander again and here we are so who knows, if Ponomarev keeps developing in the KHL and looks promising I'm sure the Pens will try to lure him back over a few years from now.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Wouldn't say never. The Penguins still own his rights and Sullivan is gone.

I thought we'd never see Hallander again and here we are so who knows, if Ponomarev keeps developing in the KHL and looks promising I'm sure the Pens will try to lure him back over a few years from now.

From what is reported in the article, he's not coming back unless he's guaranteed a spot, and honestly, I think he hasn't shown anything worth guaranteeing. At least Hallander went back and had a massive developmental leap. I don't think Ponomarev is going to do anything of note.

 

[Ryder71]

Wouldn't say never. The Penguins still own his rights and Sullivan is gone.

I thought we'd never see Hallander again and here we are so who knows, if Ponomarev keeps developing in the KHL and looks promising I'm sure the Pens will try to lure him back over a few years from now.

Honestly, do we really need him? This is no loss to us. I wouldn't be pining over him.

Hallander had a good year in a 3rd rate league, he himself was a nothing burger the 1st time 'round.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not sure how buy-low Crouse will be, but if he is as low as you think he'll be, sure, I think it's a good idea.

I imagine he’ll cost a 2nd at most and he’s a guy you can get a 1st+ for down the line if he can rebound to even a 20 goal, 35 point guy.

 

[plaidchuck]

Ugh, that's not how it works. How hard is it to understand? No multi-millionaire pays straight-up taxes. It also doesn't take into account property/sales/etc, taxes.

It also doesn't take into account signing bonuses, which is how most at that level get the majority of their money.

Honestly, if you're understanding of contracts is this basic, then it's not worth discussing. Keep drinking the Toronto media cool-aid.

Likewise, hand waving with “no rich person pays taxes” shows an equal amount of ignorance in that domain.

And what kind of strawman is the Toronto comment? Their issues lie deeper than taxes so if they’re complaining about that it’s irrelevant.

And if you dont think it doesnt move the needle in this economy and where players want to maximize how much they actually take home in their career. i don’t know what to tell you.

 

[chethejet]

Hallander will be a nice addition as he brings versatility and skill. He was a very good point getter last year. I think a bigger RW in where I go as well. But Rust with Sid and McGroarty can be a very good line and Malkin Rakell and Koivunen as well. I think Tommasino needs to get stronger and play a little heavier on the boards. He has good offensive skills and just adding strength, size will benefit him. Third line center Novak/Dubas believes he brings skill and playmaking to that. Broz may be that player to man the 3rd line.

 

[plaidchuck]

Additionally, there's cost-of-living differences. If players really only cared about their final take-home pay, they'd all want to go to St. Louis, as Missouri has the lowest cost of living out of any state with an NHL team. Or maybe Columbus, as the next lowest.
(Source: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/opportunity/affordability/cost-living )

Florida, incidentally, ranks 40th out of 50 states for lowest cost of living.

As it turns out, having something to do when they're not playing hockey also factors into things, which Florida just so happens to also be good at.

The funny thing is that back when the Lightning and Panthers weren't any good, we never heard anything about tax rates being some sort of competitive advantage. Funny how that changed after those teams got good.

This is a lazy argument that I even heard Bettman regurgitating. It's not 1995 anymore where people could make money hand over fist wherever they lived.

Now do i think anything should be done about this? Nope, state/province taxes are not the leagues problem. Does this absolutrly factor into player contracts and signings right here right now in 2025? Absolutely.

 

[The Old Master]

Likewise, hand waving with “no rich person pays taxes” shows an equal amount of ignorance in that domain.

And what kind of strawman is the Toronto comment? Their issues lie deeper than taxes so if they’re complaining about that it’s irrelevant.

And if you dont think it doesnt move the needle in this economy and where players want to maximize how much they actually take home in their career. i don’t know what to tell you.

well, if you had raga's money, you wouldn't care either

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Honestly, do we really need him? This is no loss to us. I wouldn't be pining over him.

Hallander had a good year in a 3rd rate league, he himself was a nothing burger the 1st time 'round.

I'm not convinced we need him, no. This is the current depth chart, as I see it:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Koivunen
Tomasino-Novak-Heinen
Dewar-Lizotte-K. Hayes

Puustinen, A. Hayes, Poulin I'd all use before Pono.
Then you still got Hallander, Bemstrom, Broz, Fernstrom, Ilyin in the mix.

Makes sense that he left. His odds would have been slim.

 

[Ulf5]

I'm not convinced we need him, no. This is the current depth chart, as I see it:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Koivunen
Tomasino-Novak-Heinen
Dewar-Lizotte-K. Hayes

Puustinen, A. Hayes, Poulin I'd all use before Pono.
Then you still got Hallander, Bemstrom, Broz, Fernstrom, Ilyin in the mix.

Makes sense that he left. His odds would have been slim.

Can you put anymore vanilla in that 3rd line? Ugh.

 

[McGroarty2]

I'm not convinced we need him, no. This is the current depth chart, as I see it:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Koivunen
Tomasino-Novak-Heinen
Dewar-Lizotte-K. Hayes

Puustinen, A. Hayes, Poulin I'd all use before Pono.
Then you still got Hallander, Bemstrom, Broz, Fernstrom, Ilyin in the mix.

Makes sense that he left. His odds would have been slim.

Assuming Tomasino and Dewar are re-signed...Pens are too crowded, there will be players shipped out.

McGroarty-Crosby-Rust
Rakell-Malkin-Koivunen
Hallander-Novak-Tomasino
Dewar-Lizotte-Acciari
Heinen K. Hayes

Poulin, Puustinen, Imama, Broz, A. Hayes