Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

[SomeDude]

We seem to be glossing over the fact that Dubas had a thought that adding Luke Schenn to this roster would be a good idea at all.

 

[Gurglesons]

We seem to be glossing over the fact that Dubas had a thought that adding Luke Schenn to this roster would be a good idea at all.

This is the point I'm making.

But in reality, Dubas just said things in the media about keeping him because he is uber chad and a total genius when it comes to trades. We plebs will never understand his level of intelligence and swagger.

 

[Ryder71]

We seem to be glossing over the fact that Dubas had a thought that adding Luke Schenn to this roster would be a good idea at all.

He got a 2hd and a 4th for him, that's a solid return for an aging bottom pair defensemen. He very well could have had every intention of flipping him. We don't know, but second guessing him really doesn't make much sense at this point. In the trades he's made of late he's accrued pretty good value. That's the tangible evidence we see. Everything else is speculation.

 

[Gurglesons]

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Because he's not top-4 ready and asking him to be the defensive cover for a player as flawed defensively as Karlsson is a huge ask.

If they keep Karlsson, they 100% should be bringing in an established UFA to be a partner for him. Putting a young guy there and hoping he can do that job is asking for trouble.

The data backs this up at 5 on 5.

From Natural Stat Trick, here's how Pickering fared with his most common partners:
POJ - 93:16 TOI, 60.26 CF%, 64.35 xGF%, 81.48 High Danger CF%, 25% GF
LETANG - 90:40 TOI, 44.38 CF%, 48.18 xGF%, 51.85 High Danger CF%, 37.50% GF
SHEA - 66:34 TOI, 53.60 CF%, 54.21 xGF%, 52.38 High Danger CF%, 57.14% GF
KARLSSON - 35:49 TOI, 43.94 CF%, 34.22 xGF%, 33.33 High Danger CF%, 100% GF (1-0)

Should be noted that Pickering had some pretty terrible PDO (or puck luck) during his stint, too. Even when he struggled with Letang, the puck ended up in the net more than it should have due to bad luck/bad goaltending.

That aside, he did much better away from the risk takers in Letang and Karlsson. With POJ and Shea he was above the line.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The data backs this up at 5 on 5.

From Natural Stat Trick, here's how Pickering fared with his most common partners:
POJ - 93:16 TOI, 60.26 CF%, 64.35 xGF%, 81.48 High Danger CF%, 25% GF
LETANG - 90:40 TOI, 44.38 CF%, 48.18 xGF%, 51.85 High Danger CF%, 37.50% GF
SHEA - 66:34 TOI, 53.60 CF%, 54.21 xGF%, 52.38 High Danger CF%, 57.14% GF
KARLSSON - 35:49 TOI, 43.94 CF%, 34.22 xGF%, 33.33 High Danger CF%, 100% GF (1-0)

Should be noted that Pickering had some pretty terrible PDO (or puck luck) during his stint, too. Even when he struggled with Letang, the puck ended up in the net more than it should have due to bad luck/bad goaltending.

That aside, he did much better away from the risk takers in Letang and Karlsson. With POJ and Shea he was above the line.

Appreciate you pulling real data to back up your argument (a lost art) but we really should not be coming to any conclusions off sub-100 minute samples

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I believe it's on his podcast where he stated that they went to Schenn and asked him.

I don't really care to argue about this anymore.

Dubas can do no wrong, you guys keep having faith in him. In Shero We Trust.

Oh, he can absolutely do wrong. I said in another thread that if John Tortorella ends up anywhere near this franchise, I'll be at the front of the mob calling for Dubas to be fired. If he blocks the youth movement or throws out cash for some stupid contracts, that'll be a huge misstep, too. I think it'd even be a mistake to have both of Karlsson and Rakell on this team in September - I can maybe accept one, depending on other moves, but not both.

But I also think it's become clear that he's very adept at spinning things publicly and not trying to show his hand so people can turn it around on him. He did it in that podcast you just posted when he was asked if this is bottoming out. He didn't fully commit to saying, "Yes, we'll be better next season." Instead, he spun it as, "Well, we're going to start having younger guys in the lineup now."

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Appreciate you pulling real data to back up your argument (a lost art) but we really should not be coming to any conclusions off sub-100 minute samples

Oh, I agree. Very small sample sizes. But it's at least a start. I think Pickering should be in the NHL next year. But I don't think we should be rushing to have him anchoring a pairing with Letang and/or Karlsson, depending on who is still here. Let him get settled without having to try to also cover for someone else's mistakes.

In fact, I'd like Pickering and Timmins would be an excellent third pair that you could play 16-18 minutes a night. And maybe you slot Pickering in with Letang for some shifts, but you'd give him something more stable to build up his experience in the NHL.

 

[cookthebooks]

We seem to be glossing over the fact that Dubas had a thought that adding Luke Schenn to this roster would be a good idea at all.

you seem to take everything at face value from a person who is actively trying to maximize the value of assets. sometimes the nice clean looking guy wiht glasses tells fibs *clutches pearls*

 

[cygnus47]

Oh, he can absolutely do wrong. I said in another thread that if John Tortorella ends up anywhere near this franchise, I'll be at the front of the mob calling for Dubas to be fired. If he blocks the youth movement or throws out cash for some stupid contracts, that'll be a huge misstep, too. I think it'd even be a mistake to have both of Karlsson and Rakell on this team in September - I can maybe accept one, depending on other moves, but not both.

But I also think it's become clear that he's very adept at spinning things publicly and not trying to show his hand so people can turn it around on him. He did it in that podcast you just posted when he was asked if this is bottoming out. He didn't fully commit to saying, "Yes, we'll be better next season." Instead, he spun it as, "Well, we're going to start having younger guys in the lineup now."

Agreed. He’s been saying one thing and what he’s doing has seemed to be the other, but this offseason he’ll have to reveal his hand. If it’s a half hearted re-tool and we hang on to the tradable guys the people saying he’s an idiot will be right, if we keep tanking we’ll know he was just playing off the media.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Oh, I agree. Very small sample sizes. But it's at least a start. I think Pickering should be in the NHL next year. But I don't think we should be rushing to have him anchoring a pairing with Letang and/or Karlsson, depending on who is still here. Let him get settled without having to try to also cover for someone else's mistakes.

In fact, I'd like Pickering and Timmins would be an excellent third pair that you could play 16-18 minutes a night. And maybe you slot Pickering in with Letang for some shifts, but you'd give him something more stable to build up his experience in the NHL.

I’m not sure what I think is best yet. Part of me thinks AHL again.

I tend to agree it’s typically best to start D prospects lower in the lineup and bring them up the lineup as they well vs vice versa

But I also think Pickering would get a ton of relief playing with EK. Yeah I’m sure he’d have to cover for him here or there but EK does a lot of heavy lifting in terms of exits/breakouts

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I’m not sure what I think is best yet. Part of me thinks AHL again.

I tend to agree it’s typically best to start D prospects lower in the lineup and bring them up the lineup as they well vs vice versa

But I also think Pickering would get a ton of relief playing with EK. Yeah I’m sure he’d have to cover for him here or there but EK does a lot of heavy lifting in terms of exits/breakouts

While true about the breakouts, Karlsson's zone coverage and heavy pinching leaves a lot of the burden on his partner. Now, you want a player like Karlsson to be aggressive, but in turn it's a lot of responsibility to put on a rookie.

All that being said, I think this is a moot point. I don't think Karlsson is here next season.

 

[wej20]

Interesting he mentions prospects doing well in Europe. Assume that's Hallander and possibly Big Melv.

 

[Gurglesons]

Interesting he mentions prospects doing well in Europe. Assume that's Hallander and possibly Big Melv.

I know Russia is Asia, but don't forget Illyin. I imagine he's potentially coming over next year too.

 

[wej20]

I know Russia is Asia, but don't forget Illyin. I imagine he's potentially coming over next year too.

Very true, do we know his contract situation?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I know Russia is Asia, but don't forget Illyin. I imagine he's potentially coming over next year too.

I would call Ilyin European based on where he’s from.. but is it accurate to call the KHL “Europe” in hockey terms?

Like when someone says “he’s done. He’s probably headed to Europe next year”— should that include the KHL? Interesting debate to be had.

 

[Gurglesons]

Very true, do we know his contract situation?

He'd technically be free to sign with us this upcoming season.

 

[eXile3]

I thought Russia was Euro-Asia. Everything west of the Ural mountains was Europe, and everything thing east was Asia.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I thought Russia was Euro-Asia. Everything west of the Ural mountains was Europe, and everything thing east was Asia.

Yeah KHL has teams on both continents hence my question

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've always thought that NHL exects refer to "Europe" as meaning the Liiga, SHL and DEL and junior leagues of those leagues and "Russia" as referring to the KHL and juniors leagues of the KHL. Not trying to guess what Dubas meant there but that's at least what it seems like from past reports.

You usually see it as "the guy is playing in Russia" as the KHL and "the guy is playing in Europe" as either the SHL or Liiga.

 

[SEALBound]

Welp, same thing he's said for 13-14 months now but yokels like you are still here say "durr...der is no plan!"

 

[Gurglesons]

Welp, same thing he's said for 13-14 months now but yokels like you are still here say "durr...der is no plan!"

It's not a plan.

 

[Ryder71]

Welp, same thing he's said for 13-14 months now but yokels like you are still here say "durr...der is no plan!"

I found what he said as nothing new. He even said whether ppl view it as a rebuild or retool, it's really just semantics.

Plain and simple, we NEED to draft a CORE piece for future. Otherwise none of this makes sense. We need to lose and get a top caliber player. MGR and Koivunen are good pieces, but we need to set our sights higher if we're ever gonna compete again. Really hope we lose enough games here to facilitate that.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I have no problem with Dubas saying he liked him.

That’s not what I’m criticizing. CJ specifically said the plan was to keep Luke Schenn and when the team when to Schenn and said that, he said I want to win.

There is no reason this team should be keeping Schenn’s or Rakell’s.

Ultimately, we did the right thing. But, much like the decision making with Rakell. It seems this organization has some bizarre approaches.

Look at Boston. They committed to sucking this year and are going to be rewarded with Hagens. That’s the approach we should’ve taken at the deadline.

If adding Schenn let's you move Karlsson for assets, and he keeps the seat warm for Brunicke, I'm great with it. Instead we got another 2nd and Timmins is looking more and more like a guy that can fill that role.

 

[chethejet]

The plan was to be in the playoff hunt if they could. But still the need to add talent in the system and not try to keep players who just can bring in picks or prospects like Petts. The shift to quality top end talent in the draft and picks for prospects is the next 2 years no matter how Sid wants to end things. Dubas just can't keep this nonsense up with high costs adds and get older more expensive players and stink. Bringing up McGroarty, Koivunen, eventually Broz, Pickering and Ponomarev, maybe Hayes if he can get stronger for the NHL physicality. Brunike, Timmins, St Ivany and one of the RD signees will compete for the RD openings when EK is traded. But no question to me Dubas will be active in the draft and he will make deals if they can be had for Karlsson, RR or Rust. This is a multiyear reshaping of the future roster including the 2026 draft. Even depending on the 2027 draft pick can also be part of the plan. Cap space will be there when the time to fill in the holes to be in the mix. Malkin has one more year and that's it here. Letang to me has 2 years to mirror Sid and then either the trade to the Habs or retire.