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Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

I have
Empoleon8771 said:
The only way I could see this team having a defense good enough to compete with Karlsson still around is if:

1. They win the lottery this year and get Schaefer, who turns into a legit #1 D by 2027.
2. Brunicke progresses well and takes over as the 3rd pair RD role from Timmins by 2027, who I figure is more of a short term option anyway.
3. You fill the top pair RD role and 3rd pair LD role with 2 reliable veteran DFDs

It would give them something like:

Schaefer-Andersson
Pickering-Karlsson
Hague-Brunicke

I think this defense can be a contender caliber defense for the 2027-2028 season with this, but it pretty much entirely hinges on pulling off Schaefer and having him be really damn good really quickly. Brunicke becoming a good 3rd pair D for the 2027-2028 season seems reasonable, but that's a huge if with both winning the lottery for Schaefer and having him get good that quickly. This also doesn't address the luck needed to pull off Rasmus Andersson in FA in the 2026 off-season, either.
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I have to disagree on this, it's based on too much luck and dreams.

Brunicke won't be a full time NHL player at 20, Pieniniemi has more of a chance to take that spot due to age and development stage right now, Hague will be 28 and if he hasn't improved on what he is now at 26, he will be another Graves. Even with landing Andersson there's too much reliance on hoping that 2 defensemen in the system will be ready for major NHL minutes within 2 years and one of these players has been in the CHL up until right now, and the #1 draft pick falling into our laps.

How can you make a plan on what to do on dreams?

You have to logically look at what is attainable, then have a contingency plan for IF any dreamworks falls into your lap. Would this scenario be great? Absolutely, is it realistic? I have to say, no it is not.
 
Oh boy here's your daily reminder that Mike Sullivan sucks. Would have forgot that if someone wouldn't have mentioned it for the 13 trillionth time.

As is, this team only has EK as a defenseman that should be playing on a contender, and he's such a niche/flawed player that you need to specifically construct your defense to compensate for his weaknesses. I don't understand how you can look at Karlsson and say "we can build a defense where he's insulated" with how far the rest of the defense is off from that. No one else on this team today should be anything more than a depth defenseman on a contending team. With EK being 34 and only having 2 years left on his deal, how can you reasonably construct the defense you need to succeed with him? There isn't enough time left with him.

This isn't as much of a problem with Karlsson as it is a problem with the rest of the team. If this team wanted to keep Karlsson beyond the year, they should have kept Pettersson. But since they didn't keep Pettersson, I don't see how it makes any sense to keep Karlsson. By the time this team is ready to contend again, not one of their current top-6 defenseman should be here.
 
Ugene Magic said:
The problem with that thinking is that they will be 2-5. They don't plan on tanking, so they'll be maybe top 10/15 and the drop-off is significant.

A draft being deeper doesn't mean its quality is better, just that those prospects are very much interchangeable further out.

I consider this drafts prospects quality a bit more top heavy having a clear top 4 able to be a #1 selection compared to just McKenna next year. The tier 2 I also feel is larger. Of course this can all change, but current status quo says it's not in my point of view.

So, you either reach for the #1 or trade that pick for a readymade player whose NHL ready who'll be more of a consensus NHL regular compared to a 10/15 OA in 2026. I'm not above keeping it, but I'm also not envisioning the team being as bad next year, just as i don't with the NYR's.

Their better targets are in this year's draft.

Throwing away opportunities to chase an unknown is very much a risk that can cost the team years on a retool.
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You're not making much sense to me. The idea that you might not win the lottery, so you might as well finish in the 15th, is so far from reality that it's hard to debate. They planned on competing this year and are 8th to last and have a chance to be 7th or worse. Their "planning" on being competitive has no bearing on how the actually end up.
 
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Le Magnifique 66 said:
Agreed, Letang needs to be added to this conversation but of course he won't be moved because he is a legend here..
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Pens have the capspace to bury Letang on the bottom pair, where he could give decent 10-15min a night. Problem is finding 2-3 defensemen to stack above him. I wonder what a Dumo - Karlsson pairing could do though...
 
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Jag68Sid87 said:
You can sign a left defenseman who may not be Marcus Pettersson, but can insulate Karlsson and be the safety net that he needs. Karlsson isn't the only player in the NHL that needs a defensive conscience as a partner. This happens all the time with a bunch of different offensive defensemen. I think Adam Fox was at his best when Ryan Lindgren was playing at his best. Can we find someone who can be for Karlsson what Brayden McNabb is for Shea Theodore?

We can try someone like Derek Forbort, who I don't think would sign for crazy money. Or we can go higher and take a shot at one of the big three Russian UFA D-men (Orlov; Gavrikov; Provorov). Or maybe give Lindgren a shot. Again, it would have to be relatively cheap, not an overpay. The Russians, I would be OK with overpayment.

Promote Pickering. Sign one of the aforementioned LD. Keep Timmins if he is cheap to play the third pairing. Keep Kolyachonok because he is cheap, young and filled with some untapped upside. Let Grz go. Shea, whatever. His contract is cheap enough that you don't need to bury any salary if you waive/send him down. He is a No. 8, ideally.

And if Timmins' qualifying offer is too much, then do not qualify him and try to bring him back more cheaply. If that does not work, give Brunicke a legit chance.

Forbort-Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Kolyachonok-Timmins (or Brunicke)
Graves
Shea (safety net)

This blueline is not great, but we have a systemic issue with the team defense that will not be cured by personnel changes alone. But Grzelcyk's absolute best season is still not as good as Karlsson's (arguably) worst. AND, Karlsson cannot play worse than this, while Grzelcyk is absolutely not going to do this ever again.

It's a no-brainer to keep Karlsson and let Grz go. Which is why this organization will do the opposite, because they have been making wrong decisions since 2018.
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Check out what Perfetti did to Forbort last night
 
HandshakeLine said:
it is clearly our fault Mike Sullivan is not a better coach, so we should just shut up and take our medicine, apparently.
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Or maybe it's really god damn annoying that any discussion on this site gets some sort of variation of "Mike Sullivan sucks" to completely shut down any actual conversation.

Yes, we get it. Sullivan sucks. Thanks for reminding us again.
 
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HandshakeLine said:
I'm sorry, who's shutting who up here?
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The discussion was:

"You should keep Karlsson, getting someone like Forbort to play with him would make this defense not great but okay"

"That defense is just swapping Grzelcyk for Forbort, that defense still sucks"

"No defense will be good as long as Sullivan is here"

If you can't read the posts and conclude who is shutting down a discussion because "Mike Sullivan sucks", I don't know how I can help you.
 
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Ragamuffin Gunner said:
You're not making much sense to me. The idea that you might not win the lottery, so you might as well finish in the 15th, is so far from reality that it's hard to debate. They planned on competing this year and are 8th to last and have a chance to be 7th or worse. Their "planning" on being competitive has no bearing on how the actually end up.
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No, the idea is beyond McKenna next year isn't worth tanking for, or riding that the NYR's pick is better next season. They plan on competing and them being top 10 is most likely not in the cards in 2026. They do plan on getting better. Draft/Trades/UFA

Believe it or not, FSG/the team had the Caps version of retool from the start, and they are holding up to that vision.

What's not clear to you?

You guys just think tanking is all there is. Sell off everyone and try to land a guy with a lottery pick.
 
Ugene Magic said:
No, the idea is beyond McKenna next year isn't worth tanking for, or riding that the NYR's pick is better next season. They plan on competing and them being top 10 is most likely not in the cards in 2026. They do plan on getting better. Draft/Trades/UFA

Believe it or not, FSG/the team had the Caps version of retool from the start, and they are holding up to that vision.

What's not clear to you?

You guys just think tanking is all there is. Sell off everyone and try to land a guy with a lottery pick.
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It's Yohe but he has said that they're not planning on getting better until the 2026 off-season.

They're likely getting another top-10 pick next year and then will more aggressively try to improve in the 2026 off-season.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
It's Yohe but he has said that they're not planning on getting better until the 2026 off-season.

They're likely getting another top-10 pick next year and then will more aggressively try to improve in the 2026 off-season.
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Yeah, I take that with a grain of salt... Like do they plan on bringing McDavid in as a UFA?:laugh:

Sid only has 1 season left at that point. Though, he could do 1-year signings.

Does Geno regress further and actually re-sign at 40?

I mean, waiting until the 2026 off season to get better isn't going to make them better. It's more of a process that should start now.
 
Ugene Magic said:
No, the idea is beyond McKenna next year isn't worth tanking for, or riding that the NYR's pick is better next season. They plan on competing and them being top 10 is most likely not in the cards in 2026. They do plan on getting better. Draft/Trades/UFA

Believe it or not, FSG/the team had the Caps version of retool from the start, and they are holding up to that vision.

What's not clear to you?

You guys just think tanking is all there is. Sell off everyone and try to land a guy with a lottery pick.
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The problem with retooling is that no roster in the NHL is less equipped to successfully retool than the current Pittsburgh Penguins. Unless Crosby is going to be Gordie Howe 2.0 and be elite into his 40s, they do not have a single player to retool around.
 
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Ugene Magic said:
Yeah, I take that with a grain of salt... Like do they plan on bringing McDavid in as a UFA?:laugh:

Sid only has 1 season left at that point. Though, he could do 1-year signings.

Does Geno regress further and actually re-sign at 40?

I mean, waiting until the 2026 off season to get better isn't going to make them better. It's more of a process that should start now.
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Malkin likely retires after next year and I figure Crosby takes it year by year after his current deal is up.

Rushing to make the team better in 2025 is just going to hurt their draft pick for next year and further cripple their ability to create a contending caliber core for after Crosby retires. They're already rushing it to try to be competitive again before Crosby retires. Getting 1 top-10 pick along with the Rangers 1st isn't nearly enough to build up a core for after Crosby retires.
 
Ugene Magic said:
No, the idea is beyond McKenna next year isn't worth tanking for, or riding that the NYR's pick is better next season. They plan on competing and them being top 10 is most likely not in the cards in 2026. They do plan on getting better. Draft/Trades/UFA

Believe it or not, FSG/the team had the Caps version of retool from the start, and they are holding up to that vision.

What's not clear to you?

You guys just think tanking is all there is. Sell off everyone and try to land a guy with a lottery pick.
Click to expand...
They'd be tanking for McKenna, not the rest of the draft. Just giving up on it because the odds are low makes no sense.

Tanking isn't all there is, but the clear direction should be to tank or try to win a Cup. Anything else is just treading water.
 
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I mean, what's the goal here really? If the goal is to "compete" or "try to compete", you just keep Karlsson, resign Gryz and hope that existing personnel can fill the gaps. I don't love any options in FA and I don't think it's a worthy route. I have no idea who is realistically available on the trade market but honestly, it doesn't really matter because there's no trades that are going to make the top 4 10 years younger.

I would be willing to bet this off-season, Dubas super causally approaches some teams about EK. IF there is interest, he throws it to his agent to ask EK. EK may want out or may want a better chance at competing than what we can realistically offer. If there's nothing that makes sense, you keep him. Things can change in season for teams.

The problem with EK, as I see it, is that the problem really isn't EK. The problem is high-end forward depth, high-end defensive depth, and the quality of goaltending, all under the umbrella of a coach that was past the due date. I just don't think going out and adding the significant pieces on the backend will yield any better results. I mean, we are running a top line, a 3rd line, and 2 4th lines as is. I'm not sure we have the super high-quality depth needed to make a dent against the Caps, Devils, and Canes. Thus, I don't think EK existence on the roster is a significant factor. I do think if we trade him, we get worse but that should sort of be the goal. You send him out for something like Morrow+1st from the Canes and then you hope in 3-4 years a line up of Pickering, Brunicke, Morrow, Pie, Harding, etc can provide us with the solid defense we need to help a regrown forward group win some games. Have to hope that Murashov is up by then and isn't a "goal on the first shot" candidate like we have now.
 
Zirakzigil said:
Pens have the capspace to bury Letang on the bottom pair, where he could give decent 10-15min a night. Problem is finding 2-3 defensemen to stack above him.
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You say problem but I see a great opportunity to sink even lower next season. Keep David Quinn at all cost, please.
Ugene Magic said:
Believe it or not, FSG/the team had the Caps version of retool from the start, and they are holding up to that vision.

What's not clear to you?
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What's not clear if they are merely ignorant or actually as stupid as this "plan" implies.
 
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