Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

[DesertPenguin]

I would think he'd want seven years. Injuries can happen, he'd likely want that security built in. But hey I'd do a shorter deal from a team perspective.

It's all about how he and his agent look at it. Matthews has done this his whole career, and Gavrikov did it a few years ago. They thought he was crazy, but it turns out he was crazy like a fox, since he's about to get paid again.

 

[Ryder71]

It's all about how he and his agent look at it. Matthews has done this his whole career, and Gavrikov did it a few years ago. They thought he was crazy, but it turns out he was crazy like a fox, since he's about to get paid again.

14 million isn't enough per season? As he gets older and with more wear and tear injuries can happen. Does he wanna risk it for an extra two million per four years down the road? I'd want the security, but hey I'd be amenable either way from a Pittsburgh perspective. But also he'd be 31-32 at that time. Maybe his production would dip a bit, especially with Sid gone by that time. If you're younger maybe you take that risk. When you're older my guess is the security would mean more.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Then you should be mad as hell they didn't do a better job with getting talent in because this isn't doing shit except giving Sid some more bragging points.

They needed to acquire assets to use on bringing talent in before they could bring talent in.

 

[Rave7215]

Then you should be mad as hell they didn't do a better job with getting talent in because this isn't doing shit except giving Sid some more bragging points.

The only thing I'm mad as hell about is the fact the Sullivan still coaches this team. Nothing matters until that clown of a coach finally pisses off ownership and he's allowed to be fired from the organization.

 

[Rave7215]

So we’re just gonna pretend like the Blackhawks weren’t able to offload what is considered one of the worst long term contracts in the league at this deadline?

Charlie Coyle and Scott Laughton have another year left on their deals. Brandon Carlo also has multiple years left on his deal and Toronto gave up a boatload for him.

Asking 2 1sts and good prospect for Rickard Rakell and not budging on it is poor asset management. Most of you wanted Rakell gone for free before the season started.

Last I checked, none of those players are Top 6 wingers with 3 years left on their deal. I see center, defense, center, defense.

 

[Duffy13]

No retool can make it so that Letang is an adequate NHL player anymore. He is signed for 3 more years, and his decline will make it so he will have to be on LTIR, he absolutely cannot be on the ice for any amount of time if they get back to the playoffs. I am as big of an Acciari hater as there is, on the ice, he seems like a great guy... but whatever. I would hypothetically put Acciari on defense to take Letangs place and still maintain it's a significant upgrade.

and man oh man, they need to overhaul their goalie coaches, Chiodo needs to go, every goalie that has been here since he's showed up and tanked hard. Murray, Jarry, DeSmith, Ned have been absolute dogshit during his tenure, and Blom isn't looking that great now after a good start in the AHL. New coaching staff please.

 

[pistolpete11]

Preach. People keep losing their minds that Dubas and Sully aren't tanking properly, but the reality is they aren't tanking at all, they're retooling on the fly.

The scary thing is that they aren't tanking and are still this bad.

 

[Jacob]

If we do trade Karlsson I’d sign DeAngelo. I know he’s not well thought of but in terms of his on-ice play he can give you almost what Karlsson can for about 1/4th of the cap hit.

 

[Duffy13]

If we do trade Karlsson I’d sign DeAngelo. I know he’s not well thought of but in terms of his on-ice play he can give you almost what Karlsson can for about 1/4th of the cap hit.

Why not just resign Gryz? He is producing on this team, and he's a free agent anyways, we don't need a #1 offensive force on every pairing, he won't be overly expensive.... shouldn't, I should say.... Then go and get some size and defensive defensemen that can actually protect the net. I'm not sure trading Karlsson will help the team more than trading or buying out and then replacing Graves will.

Editing to add:

Getting rid of Letang and Graves will help incredibly more than trading Karlsson and letting Gryz walk. Especially with the promise that Timmons has shown, albeit in a very small window.

Karlsson, Gryz, Timmons, Koly, then acquire a couple physical defensive oriented players would be a big upgrade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the issue with keeping Karlsson is that:

1. The Penguins don't have the defense they need to insulate him defensively, if they wanted to keep him they should have kept Pettersson. But you couldn't justify that with the return Pettersson brought back.
2. He's old enough and doesn't have enough term left on his deal for me to think that the team can build the defense they need around him.

Whether Letang is worse or not (he is) isn't really relevant to the issues with Karlsson. Unless you want to re-sign Karlsson, and I'm not sure why he'd want to re-sign here, I don't really see a justification for not trading Karlsson this off-season.

If they can manage to get out of Letang's deal this off-season, I'm more receptive to keeping Karlsson, but those two issues are still issues even with getting out of Letang's deal.

 

[eXile3]

Karlsson is by far our best skater and we get considerably slower if he leaves.

Not to mention he’s actually pretty good at getting the puck out of our zone and up the ice. Regardless of what Sullivan, oops I mean Yohe, says.

 

[Duffy13]

I think the issue with keeping Karlsson is that:

1. The Penguins don't have the defense they need to insulate him defensively, if they wanted to keep him they should have kept Pettersson. But you couldn't justify that with the return Pettersson brought back.
2. He's old enough and doesn't have enough term left on his deal for me to think that the team can build the defense they need around him.

Whether Letang is worse or not (he is) isn't really relevant to the issues with Karlsson. Unless you want to re-sign Karlsson, and I'm not sure why he'd want to re-sign here, I don't really see a justification for not trading Karlsson this off-season.

If they can manage to get out of Letang's deal this off-season, I'm more receptive to keeping Karlsson, but those two issues are still issues even with getting out of Letang's deal.

I should be clear in stating that I am not advocating for keeping Karlsson, more so than we cannot have both Karlsson AND Letang on this team. I would be ok with keeping Karlsson, if they had a plan to revamp the defensive core... but moving pieces like Graves, Letang and Karlsson, and potentially replacing Gryz who is a FA, is a huge task. All 4 are defensive black holes with Gryz being the better of the 4,

Realistically it is more likely to see Gryz and Graves gone. Letangs contract is so restrictive as a +35 with 3 more years, and Karlsson has complete say where and when he goes.

My personal preference is Karlsson, Gryz, Timmons, Koly, then a couple physical defensive oriented players... but I don't see a way out from Letang, unless he retires or they buy him out... and I don't believe they will do that.

And then they have to deal with the goalie situation lol... I can't imagine what it's going to take to move some of these contracts this offseason, it will be highly entertaining that's for sure.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

From Yohe’s story on Koivunen and McG lol…in case you need another reminder to drink heavily:

“Rust gets it. So does Rakell. And no one gets it more than Crosby.

Those three fully intend on being in Pittsburgh when the Penguins return to glory. So does coach Mike Sullivan.”

Rutger McGroarty, Ville Koivunen fitting right in as Penguins embrace youth movement

The arrival and development of Pittsburgh's two prospects is a big deal — for now and the future.

www.nytimes.com

"Boooo" and "Fart"

 

[Empoleon8771]

I should be clear in stating that I am not advocating for keeping Karlsson, more so than we cannot have both Karlsson AND Letang on this team. I would be ok with keeping Karlsson, if they had a plan to revamp the defensive core... but moving pieces like Graves, Letang and Karlsson, and potentially replacing Gryz who is a FA, is a huge task. All 4 are defensive black holes with Gryz being the better of the 4,

Realistically it is more likely to see Gryz and Graves gone. Letangs contract is so restrictive as a +35 with 3 more years, and Karlsson has complete say where and when he goes.

My personal preference is Karlsson, Gryz, Timmons, Koly, then a couple physical defensive oriented players... but I don't see a way out from Letang, unless he retires or they buy him out... and I don't believe they will do that.

And then they have to deal with the goalie situation lol... I can't imagine what it's going to take to move some of these contracts this offseason, it will be highly entertaining that's for sure.

I wouldn't even bring back that much of this defense. Timmins is fine as a 3rd pair RD, Kolyachonok is just an 7th defenseman and Karlsson is a fine 2nd pair RD if you give him a reliable defensive partner.

Probably the best this team can reasonably do in the near term is:

XXXX-XXXX
Pickering-Karlsson
XXXX-Timmins
Kolyachonok

You need an Ian Cole type of reliable 3rd pair LD to play with Timmins and you need a legit top pair. With Karlsson having only 2 years left on his deal, how realistic is it that you can build up this defense before he leaves? I just don't see it.

 

[Duffy13]

I wouldn't even bring back that much of this defense. Timmins is fine as a 3rd pair RD, Kolyachonok is just an 7th defenseman and Karlsson is a fine 2nd pair RD if you give him a reliable defensive partner.

Probably the best this team can reasonably do in the near term is:

XXXX-XXXX
Pickering-Karlsson
XXXX-Timmins
Kolyachonok

You need an Ian Cole type of reliable 3rd pair LD to play with Timmins and you need a legit top pair. With Karlsson having only 2 years left on his deal, how realistic is it that you can build up this defense before he leaves? I just don't see it.

I agree, this team has too many flaws, and bad contracts to fix within a year or two. I don't see a way they realistically make the wholesale changes they need to do. And this is just the defense, the bottom 6 needs better role players, the top 6 needs a couple of better wingers, and a replacement center for when Malkin gets injured... and then the goalie situation... AND the coaching situation on all fronts from goalie coach to head coach.

Also Acciari is 8th on the team in total ice time this season, not counting goalies ... this ice time management need to be addressed this offseason as well.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only way I could see this team having a defense good enough to compete with Karlsson still around is if:

1. They win the lottery this year and get Schaefer, who turns into a legit #1 D by 2027.
2. Brunicke progresses well and takes over as the 3rd pair RD role from Timmins by 2027, who I figure is more of a short term option anyway.
3. You fill the top pair RD role and 3rd pair LD role with 2 reliable veteran DFDs

It would give them something like:

Schaefer-Andersson
Pickering-Karlsson
Hague-Brunicke

I think this defense can be a contender caliber defense for the 2027-2028 season with this, but it pretty much entirely hinges on pulling off Schaefer and having him be really damn good really quickly. Brunicke becoming a good 3rd pair D for the 2027-2028 season seems reasonable, but that's a huge if with both winning the lottery for Schaefer and having him get good that quickly. This also doesn't address the luck needed to pull off Rasmus Andersson in FA in the 2026 off-season, either.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

So is landing the consensus #1 prospect. Only one team can land that guy, and have you come up with a plan when you don't?

The normal draft procedure is almost a decade long venture, and you can still end up a Chicago, Buffalo, San Jose or even an Oilers team.

It's not like they lose their pick if they don't win the lottery. The 2-5th pick will be huge for this team. Being any better than 27th in the league next year would be an utter failure.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Why not just resign Gryz? He is producing on this team, and he's a free agent anyways, we don't need a #1 offensive force on every pairing, he won't be overly expensive.... shouldn't, I should say.... Then go and get some size and defensive defensemen that can actually protect the net. I'm not sure trading Karlsson will help the team more than trading or buying out and then replacing Graves will.

Editing to add:

Getting rid of Letang and Graves will help incredibly more than trading Karlsson and letting Gryz walk. Especially with the promise that Timmons has shown, albeit in a very small window.

Karlsson, Gryz, Timmons, Koly, then acquire a couple physical defensive oriented players would be a big upgrade.

I'm pretty sure KD will try to sign him this summer. I would do another 1 year deal with him and try to flip him again next deadline depending on what happens.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

i would want to keep EK unless the return is worth it (1st or more - probably won’t be). I honestly worry about developing defenseman (and even forwards) without anyone to play with. He’s a little loose defensively but he takes sooo much stress off whoever is out there with him in terms of generating clean exits and transition.

I am pro-tank/rebuild and very pro-moving Rust and Raks at some point but I just don’t see why you do a EK65 trade with retention like for a conditional second. Development is key piece of rebuilding.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think the issue with keeping Karlsson is that:

1. The Penguins don't have the defense they need to insulate him defensively, if they wanted to keep him they should have kept Pettersson. But you couldn't justify that with the return Pettersson brought back.
2. He's old enough and doesn't have enough term left on his deal for me to think that the team can build the defense they need around him.

Whether Letang is worse or not (he is) isn't really relevant to the issues with Karlsson. Unless you want to re-sign Karlsson, and I'm not sure why he'd want to re-sign here, I don't really see a justification for not trading Karlsson this off-season.

If they can manage to get out of Letang's deal this off-season, I'm more receptive to keeping Karlsson, but those two issues are still issues even with getting out of Letang's deal.

You can sign a left defenseman who may not be Marcus Pettersson, but can insulate Karlsson and be the safety net that he needs. Karlsson isn't the only player in the NHL that needs a defensive conscience as a partner. This happens all the time with a bunch of different offensive defensemen. I think Adam Fox was at his best when Ryan Lindgren was playing at his best. Can we find someone who can be for Karlsson what Brayden McNabb is for Shea Theodore?

We can try someone like Derek Forbort, who I don't think would sign for crazy money. Or we can go higher and take a shot at one of the big three Russian UFA D-men (Orlov; Gavrikov; Provorov). Or maybe give Lindgren a shot. Again, it would have to be relatively cheap, not an overpay. The Russians, I would be OK with overpayment.

Promote Pickering. Sign one of the aforementioned LD. Keep Timmins if he is cheap to play the third pairing. Keep Kolyachonok because he is cheap, young and filled with some untapped upside. Let Grz go. Shea, whatever. His contract is cheap enough that you don't need to bury any salary if you waive/send him down. He is a No. 8, ideally.

And if Timmins' qualifying offer is too much, then do not qualify him and try to bring him back more cheaply. If that does not work, give Brunicke a legit chance.

Forbort-Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Kolyachonok-Timmins (or Brunicke)
Graves
Shea (safety net)

This blueline is not great, but we have a systemic issue with the team defense that will not be cured by personnel changes alone. But Grzelcyk's absolute best season is still not as good as Karlsson's (arguably) worst. AND, Karlsson cannot play worse than this, while Grzelcyk is absolutely not going to do this ever again.

It's a no-brainer to keep Karlsson and let Grz go. Which is why this organization will do the opposite, because they have been making wrong decisions since 2018.

 

[Ugene Magic]

It's not like they lose their pick if they don't win the lottery. The 2-5th pick will be huge for this team. Being any better than 27th in the league next year would be an utter failure.

The problem with that thinking is that they will be 2-5. They don't plan on tanking, so they'll be maybe top 10/15 and the drop-off is significant.

A draft being deeper doesn't mean its quality is better, just that those prospects are very much interchangeable further out.

I consider this drafts prospects quality a bit more top heavy having a clear top 4 able to be a #1 selection compared to just McKenna next year. The tier 2 I also feel is larger. Of course this can all change, but current status quo says it's not in my point of view.

So, you either reach for the #1 or trade that pick for a readymade player whose NHL ready who'll be more of a consensus NHL regular compared to a 10/15 OA in 2026. I'm not above keeping it, but I'm also not envisioning the team being as bad next year, just as i don't with the NYR's.

Their better targets are in this year's draft.

Throwing away opportunities to chase an unknown is very much a risk that can cost the team years on a retool.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

You can sign a left defenseman who may not be Marcus Pettersson, but can insulate Karlsson and be the safety net that he needs. Karlsson isn't the only player in the NHL that needs a defensive conscience as a partner. This happens all the time with a bunch of different offensive defensemen. I think Adam Fox was at his best when Ryan Lindgren was playing at his best. Can we find someone who can be for Karlsson what Brayden McNabb is for Shea Theodore?

We can try someone like Derek Forbort, who I don't think would sign for crazy money. Or we can go higher and take a shot at one of the big three Russian UFA D-men (Orlov; Gavrikov; Provorov). Or maybe give Lindgren a shot. Again, it would have to be relatively cheap, not an overpay. The Russians, I would be OK with overpayment.

Promote Pickering. Sign one of the aforementioned LD. Keep Timmins if he is cheap to play the third pairing. Keep Kolyachonok because he is cheap, young and filled with some untapped upside. Let Grz go. Shea, whatever. His contract is cheap enough that you don't need to bury any salary if you waive/send him down. He is a No. 8, ideally.

And if Timmins' qualifying offer is too much, then do not qualify him and try to bring him back more cheaply. If that does not work, give Brunicke a legit chance.

Forbort-Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Kolyachonok-Timmins (or Brunicke)
Graves
Shea (safety net)

This blueline is not great, but we have a systemic issue with the team defense that will not be cured by personnel changes alone. But Grzelcyk's absolute best season is still not as good as Karlsson's (arguably) worst. AND, Karlsson cannot play worse than this, while Grzelcyk is absolutely not going to do this ever again.

It's a no-brainer to keep Karlsson and let Grz go. Which is why this organization will do the opposite, because they have been making wrong decisions since 2018.

I don't want to see Graves anymore in a Pens uniform beyond this season to be honest!! Add a pick to him and trade him away please!!!

 

[Empoleon8771]

And if Timmins' qualifying offer is too much, then do not qualify him and try to bring him back more cheaply. If that does not work, give Brunicke a legit chance.

Forbort-Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Kolyachonok-Timmins (or Brunicke)
Graves
Shea (safety net)

This blueline is not great, but we have a systemic issue with the team defense that will not be cured by personnel changes alone. But Grzelcyk's absolute best season is still not as good as Karlsson's (arguably) worst. AND, Karlsson cannot play worse than this, while Grzelcyk is absolutely not going to do this ever again.

That blueline is not just "not great", it's liquid shit caliber. That defense is atrocious.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

That blueline is not just "not great", it's liquid shit caliber. That defense is atrocious.

We will blame Jarry regardless, all good!!!

 

[Empoleon8771]

We will blame Jarry regardless, all good!!!

That defense is effectively just replacing Grzelcyk with Forbort and acting like that solves their issues. It's silly.