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Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

Puljujarvi bitched about not getting a NHL chance here, only to sign with Florida, continue to not get a NHL chance and not even do particularly well for their AHL team. He has 5 goals and 12 points in 19 games with Charlotte this year.

He's going back to Europe next year. Teams realize he's not a NHL caliber player hence why he's passed through waivers like 4 times this year.
 
Jag68Sid87 said:
It feels like a long shot to be sure. The ONLY chance we have to land Marner is...

- his relationship with Dubas and Spezza. If he felt comfortable with them in the past, and his agent/father like them as well, this gives the Pens a shot.

- Pittsburgh is not that far from Toronto, so IF Marner and his wife want to be close to home, Pittsburgh offers that option.

- Sid. There are few places where Marner can go that will provide a center as good as he is used to playing with in Toronto. Pittsburgh is one of those places, at least for the early portion of his next career. Sure, he could opt to play with Celebrini in SJ or Bedard in Chicago, but those guys are not there yet.

Dubas would have to sell Marner on the idea of being the transitional player between the 87/71 era, and the next wave. Can he pull it off?
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Another positive is PIT doesn't have insane level of pressure or scrutiny from the media here. I don't think he'll come here but that is a selling point! TOR is the biggest pressure cooker in the league!
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Puljujarvi bitched about not getting a NHL chance here, only to sign with Florida, continue to not get a NHL chance and not even do particularly well for their AHL team. He has 5 goals and 12 points in 19 games with Charlotte this year.

He's going back to Europe next year. Teams realize he's not a NHL caliber player hence why he's passed through waivers like 4 times this year.
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Two things can be true...Puljujarvi is not an NHLer AND he was screwed by Mike Sullivan this season.
 
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Jag68Sid87 said:
Two things can be true...Puljujarvi is not an NHLer AND he was screwed by Mike Sullivan this season.
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If he's not a NHL caliber piece, he was never screwed over by not playing in the NHL.

Which is why Florida is also not "screwing over" Puljujarvi by not playing him in the NHL right now. He's in the AHL because that's all the talent level he has.

Admitting that Puljujarvi isn't a NHLer and then saying he was still "screwed over by Sullivan" because Sullivan played some other crappy AHL caliber player over him makes no sense.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
If he's not a NHL caliber piece, he was never screwed over by not playing in the NHL.

Which is why Florida is also not "screwing over" Puljujarvi by not playing him in the NHL right now. He's in the AHL because that's all the talent level he has.

Admitting that Puljujarvi isn't a NHLer and then saying he was still "screwed over by Sullivan" because Sullivan played some other crappy AHL caliber player over him makes no sense.
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Sullivan makes no sense.
 
Ugene Magic said:
This is what living in denial looks like.

You do realize he had Rakell and Smith last season. But you all blame the wingers and not Geno.
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Smith was garbage and checked out - that's why we traded him a year after acquiring him - and Rakell was admittedly not in a good place mentally last year. What part of that do you think is in dispute?

God forbid the bigger player has a natural decline or anything. I'm mean, he's the one telling you all he is old. I guess you don't see why he was pulled from PP1. He rarely was in or took advantage of his shot always overplaying the puck to the point, his slowness hanging out at the RW wall and having passes picked off. How about trying to chase younger players back after the giveaways?
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Yes, Kevin Hayes is clearly superior. Better offense, better footspeed.
 
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The one thing I'd say about trading Rakell is that I'd be looking to basically replace Rakell right after trading Rakell, but I'd be looking to get a younger player who could be around long-term. If this team wants to be good again before Crosby retires, they're going to need another guy to replace Rakell in the pretty near future.

Something I'd support them doing is looking to trade their older quality players like Rakell and Karlsson for futures and then immediately flipping more/better futures to get younger NHL talent. Sending Rakell out but bringing say Peterka in both maintains the team's level now while it also sets them up better for the future due to Peterka's age. Someone like Rossi would also fit into this. You would obviously need to give up more for the younger guys than you'd get back for Rakell and Karlsson, but it seems like a pretty solid option if this team wants to not do a multi-year bottoming out style rebuild.

Something like the Rangers 1st for Rossi's RFA rights followed by Rakell to Carolina for Dallas' 2026 1st seems like it fits what this team has suggested it wants to do.
 
SomeDude said:
It’s not that the market might not be so friendly, it isn’t going to be, and likely never will be while Rakell is still under contract. This was the strongest market for sellers that I can ever remember.

Beau got moved for a 5th twice in the last 2 years and suddenly his value jumped up to 2nd. We got paid to take on Glass 5 months ago and suddenly he’s worth a positive 2nd. What exactly did he do here to increase his value in that time? It was insanity. Anything not bolted down should have been traded.
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I don't really get what's so hard to comprehend here. Players with term rarely are traded at the deadline. Let alone for big packages. That normally happens at the draft or off-season.

You say this was the strongest market for sellers. Yea, for rentals. How many top 6 players with term were traded this past deadline? Teams that are trading are contenders with minimum cap space, going for it now. They do not want to commit to a winger for 3 more years when this is his best year. Teams are also planning for the future.

Why is it possible that Rakell could bring more this off season? First, more teams are in the mix. Not just contenders at the deadline. Second, Teams will have a more firm idea of what the cap will actually do and how they want to build their team.

Trading Rakell just to trade Rakell is dumb. You need an appropriate return for what he brings. And what he brings is a top 6 scoring winger talent. You know who needs a top 6 winger? The Penguins. They also have to win games. The value on Rakell's return needs to be greater than his current value to the team. Despite wanting to burn it all down, you need players to play. Giving him away is poor asset management.
 
If you're tanking for a rebuild, having top 6 scoring talent means literally nothing. If you're trying to give Sid a sendoff or whatever, I guess you might need A line. If you want to compete, you need at least 3 lines of scoring depth.

I don't see how Rackell helps with anything except padding Sid's legacy, and in that case, it'd be better to just be upfront with it.
 
HandshakeLine said:
I think you need to figure out if we're tanking or "pivoting", otherwise it doesn't matter if we have top 6 scoring talent or not.
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I don't think there is anything to figure out. Nothing this team has done has showed that it's tanking. Despite what people here want, the organization and players will never sign on for a true tank. They won't be able to out tank San Jose or Chicago. Not to mention you'll never truly be able to tank with Crosby on the team. He's still performing as a top 10 in the league. If this team had average goaltending, it'd be in the playoffs.
 
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Rave7215 said:
I don't think there is anything to figure out. Nothing this team has done has showed that it's tanking. Despite what people here want, the organization and players will never sign on for a true tank. They won't be able to out tank San Jose or Chicago. Not to mention you'll never truly be able to tank with Crosby on the team. He's still performing as a top 10 in the league. If this team had average goaltending, it'd be in the playoffs.
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Then you should be mad as hell they didn't do a better job with getting talent in because this isn't doing shit except giving Sid some more bragging points.
 
Rave7215 said:
I don't really get what's so hard to comprehend here. Players with term rarely are traded at the deadline. Let alone for big packages. That normally happens at the draft or off-season.

You say this was the strongest market for sellers. Yea, for rentals. How many top 6 players with term were traded this past deadline? Teams that are trading are contenders with minimum cap space, going for it now. They do not want to commit to a winger for 3 more years when this is his best year. Teams are also planning for the future.

Why is it possible that Rakell could bring more this off season? First, more teams are in the mix. Not just contenders at the deadline. Second, Teams will have a more firm idea of what the cap will actually do and how they want to build their team.

Trading Rakell just to trade Rakell is dumb. You need an appropriate return for what he brings. And what he brings is a top 6 scoring winger talent. You know who needs a top 6 winger? The Penguins. They also have to win games. The value on Rakell's return needs to be greater than his current value to the team. Despite wanting to burn it all down, you need players to play. Giving him away is poor asset management.
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So we’re just gonna pretend like the Blackhawks weren’t able to offload what is considered one of the worst long term contracts in the league at this deadline?

Charlie Coyle and Scott Laughton have another year left on their deals. Brandon Carlo also has multiple years left on his deal and Toronto gave up a boatload for him.

Asking 2 1sts and good prospect for Rickard Rakell and not budging on it is poor asset management. Most of you wanted Rakell gone for free before the season started.
 
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Could we get a 1st straight up for Karlsson without retention? We hate him but as far as other teams know he’s putting up decent numbers on a bad team. Carolina is losing Burns and showed interest in Karlsson 2 years ago. They have plenty of cap room and only 2 years left now on Karlsson’s deal.
 
Jacob said:
Could we get a 1st straight up for Karlsson without retention? We hate him but as far as other teams know he’s putting up decent numbers on a bad team. Carolina is losing Burns and showed interest in Karlsson 2 years ago. They have plenty of cap room and only 2 years left now on Karlsson’s deal.
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We'll have to retain, and with the cap goin up that wouldn't be a big issue I don't believe considering we're not a player or two away from contending. Maybe retain 2.5 to 3.0 million.
 
Dubas is in the get picks and now get prospects who are ready for the next step. Dubas will draft and develop players but to expedite the rebuild, he needs to blend young talent with some seasoned talent and then a feeder for competing for roster spots. So right now, Brunicke, Pickering, maybe Harding and St Ivany on D with Forwards like McGroarty, Koivunen. Broz, Ponomarev. center in this draft, Poulin, Tomasino, what they get back in trades and 2026 draft will give Dubas and management the roster to build.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The plan does seem to be being bad again next year, getting another high pick and then having an aggressive retool starting in the 2026 off-season and trying to compete before Crosby retires. I've said a couple of times that I wonder if they're trying to rush the rebuild for Crosby's sake when they shouldn't be doing that, but it seems like that's what they want to do.

I figure they get a 2026 1st back in the Karlsson deal this off-season and end up with 4 1sts between 2025 and 2026, and the hope is that those 4 picks plus their current prospect pool and remaining picks is enough to have a championship caliber core in the future. Not sure it works but that appears to be the plan.
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We'll know based on the moves this offseason, but I'm not convinced they plan to be bad next year. Dubas said in his trade deadline presser that it's time to transition from collecting assets and freeing space to using those to rebuild the team to contention. I don't expect them to make a deep push, but I expect Dubas to be putting them on an upward trajectory again. That probably looks like a team competing to get in next year, and buying rentals the year following to go for it.
 
Ryder71 said:
Another positive is PIT doesn't have insane level of pressure or scrutiny from the media here. I don't think he'll come here but that is a selling point! TOR is the biggest pressure cooker in the league!
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We have a track record for taking in star Toronto wingers that have been unfairly blamed for their teams failings and run out of town, and welcoming them with open arms as our long lost son. It isn't likely, I wouldn't bet money on it, but it could happen.

Marner to PIT works best as a 3-4 year deal where he gets 14m and a NMC now, rides it out with Sid, chooses his destination when we tank post Sid retirement, and gets paid an even higher AAV because the cap went up $30m.
 
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Rave7215 said:
I don't think there is anything to figure out. Nothing this team has done has showed that it's tanking. Despite what people here want, the organization and players will never sign on for a true tank. They won't be able to out tank San Jose or Chicago. Not to mention you'll never truly be able to tank with Crosby on the team. He's still performing as a top 10 in the league. If this team had average goaltending, it'd be in the playoffs.
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Preach. People keep losing their minds that Dubas and Sully aren't tanking properly, but the reality is they aren't tanking at all, they're retooling on the fly. The sooner one accepts that, the sooner one can make peace with the moves being made.

We're rebuilding the farm system and swapping out older vets for young legs. We aren't tearing it down to studs. That's why Dubas went for prospects over picks for Guentzel. That's why we picked up Novak, Tomasino, Timmins and Dewar. I expect we'll see more of that this summer, making moves for RFAs teams can't sign and UFAs under 30.
 
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CheckingLineCenter said:
Convinced you don’t know puck if you watch this team and hate EK. He tilts the ice and this would be the worst back end in the league without him. Letang is completely shot.
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I'm interested in watching EK at LD. Unconventional since usually RD are so hard to find, but if him and Timmins work then you can focus your efforts on band-aiding Letang with a stud 2 way D. I want Provorov or Gavrikov. Hell, get me both.

Gavrikov Karlsson
Provorov Letang
Pickering Timmins

Might be pretty good, albeit expensive.
 
DesertPenguin said:
We have a track record for taking in star Toronto wingers that have been unfairly blamed for their teams failings and run out of town, and welcoming them with open arms as our long lost son. It isn't likely, I wouldn't bet money on it, but it could happen.

Marner to PIT works best as a 3-4 year deal where he gets 14m and a NMC now, rides it out with Sid, chooses his destination when we tank post Sid retirement, and gets paid an even higher AAV because the cap went up $30m.
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I would think he'd want seven years. Injuries can happen, he'd likely want that security built in. But hey I'd do a shorter deal from a team perspective.
 
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