Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

[Turin]

They are a true team and I mean that in a complimentary way. Really have found pieces that fit together.

But I can’t remember a team with worse top dogs than them winning a cup or even making serious noise in the playoffs. I guess that Isles team that went to 7 games in the ECF? But Barzal was on that team.

I see a lot of WSH in person, forget superstar. They legitimately do not even have a star. Idc what numbers guys are putting up. Which makes their season more impressive but I struggle to see a run.

Yea I think you might see matchup struggles eventually. OV is getting his flowers but he’s a still a bad 5on5 player.

But idk because they sucked in 2018 and Kuznetsov turned into a coked out superstar, the Pens entire top six besides Sid and Guentzel was injured, AHL plug DSP turned into a top six winger for 3 weeks and they met an expansion team running on fumes in the final. All I’m saying is the success they do have was a total fluke so there is precedent.

 

[Victor Z]

Before we declare Kyle Dubas to be the God of General Managers, there's still one critical move he has not made but absolutely must make.

No, it's not trading Ricky Rakell.

It's something else.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Playoffs against Florida and even Toronto are gonna be telling. Maybe they're legit but I could see them losing in the first round just as well as them winning the cup.

I'm willing to sacrifice a few innocents to the hockey gods to ensure they disappoint. Both because I hate that organization and because I really don't want "re-tooling like Washington" to be the expected standard.

 

[PensFutures]

Before we declare Kyle Dubas to be the God of General Managers, there's still one critical move he has not made but absolutely must make.

No, it's not trading Ricky Rakell.

It's something else.

They are working on an extension for Sully, stay calm.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yea I think you might see matchup struggles eventually. OV is getting his flowers but he’s a still a bad 5on5 player.

But idk because they sucked in 2018 and Kuznetsov turned into a coked out superstar, the Pens entire top six besides Sid and Guentzel was injured, AHL plug DSP turned into a top six winger for 3 weeks and they met an expansion team running on fumes in the final. All I’m saying is the success they do have was a total fluke so there is precedent.

Yeah and like you said, the East is weak

But I don’t think their model is sustainable or one to be copied. Maybe they will prove me wrong.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think that Chychrun contract is fair.

But there’s still a lot of glazing for a team that has made it past the 2nd round once since W Bush was President around here.

I think it's just admiring a team that is actually making decisions that contribute to their aged star player making the playoffs.

I don't really care about anything else but seeing Sid and Malkin play playoff games. We aren't going to be able to truly rebuild until they are gone, so I'd prefer the organization focused on that versus acquiring 2nd round picks.

Dubas could make creative moves. He just hasn't here.

 

[Victor Z]

But idk because they sucked in 2018 and Kuznetsov turned into a coked out superstar, the Pens entire top six besides Sid and Guentzel was injured,

Don't forget the "game managers" looking the other way at the atrocities of Tom Wilson in two games of our series that playoff year. No major (or even minor) penalties for his cheap shots, nevermind any suspension. It wasn't just the blatant headshots which the refs ignored; remember Wilson's obvious penalty against Maatta (I think) with barely a minute to go in game 3 which directly led to the losing goal?

The Pens won 2 games, the Caps won 2 games.... and the refs won 2 games on behalf of Washington.

But the Pens had just won 2 Cups in a row and it was the Great Ape's turn to get one.

 

[eXile3]

This offseason will be very telling for Dubas. There’s no way a retool during Sid’s time works if they don’t start making some moves to be more competitive.

I’m already on record of not liking Dubas, after being really excited at first. I’ll give him one more offseason to execute.

I still want to punch him in face. I’m not sure of that will ever change.

 

[SEALBound]

Before we declare Kyle Dubas to be the God of General Managers, there's still one critical move he has not made but absolutely must make.

No, it's not trading Ricky Rakell.

It's something else.

Is the answer Jesus?

I'm willing to sacrifice a few innocents to the hockey gods to ensure they disappoint. Both because I hate that organization and because I really don't want "re-tooling like Washington" to be the expected standard.

While their record is very impressive, I don't get the same feeling about them that I did with other top teams from years past. Like 23 Bruins - man I thought I they were going to trounce everyone. Rangers and Stars last year, hell even Florida this year. I don't get the same "they're scary good" feeling. But hey, things can obviously change and the proof will be in the pudding.

I also don't think rebuilds will follow what Washington did. I think both the Penguins and Capitals were in unique situations with (more or less) aged out star players that you want to legitimately support very late in their careers. No doubt Washington wanted to support Ovi en route to the goal record just like the Penguins want to support Sid until he retires. I think most other organizations can find it in themselves to move on from core players (Chicago and Kane/Toews, Tampa with Stammer, etc) but I don't think we have anyone like that in the league past Sid and Ovi. Maybe Mac and McDavid get there one day? IF they both end up staying for their careers.

Nah, I think rebuilds will remain similar to what Chicago, SJS, Anaheim, or lol Buffalo are doing. Fact is, I would suggest that the Caps turnaround is the rather "extreme" exception rather than the rule. Sometimes a GM has a string of homeruns and it all comes together nicely. Just like us in 16 and 17. But the majority of the time, that's not the case.

This offseason will be very telling for Dubas. There’s no way a retool during Sid’s time works if they don’t start making some moves to be more competitive.

I’m already on record of not liking Dubas, after being really excited at first. I’ll give him one more offseason to execute.

I still want to punch him in face. I’m not sure of that will ever change.

If they want to retool with young players, the best young player to add to help Sid is Gavin McKenna. Which means they need to SUCK next year and suck hard. Tanking then quickly retooling in the 2026-27 off-season is as viable of a plan as anything he could realistically do right now.

 

[eXile3]

Is the answer Jesus?

While their record is very impressive, I don't get the same feeling about them that I did with other top teams from years past. Like 23 Bruins - man I thought I they were going to trounce everyone. Rangers and Stars last year, hell even Florida this year. I don't get the same "they're scary good" feeling. But hey, things can obviously change and the proof will be in the pudding.

I also don't think rebuilds will follow what Washington did. I think both the Penguins and Capitals were in unique situations with (more or less) aged out star players that you want to legitimately support very late in their careers. No doubt Washington wanted to support Ovi en route to the goal record just like the Penguins want to support Sid until he retires. I think most other organizations can find it in themselves to move on from core players (Chicago and Kane/Toews, Tampa with Stammer, etc) but I don't think we have anyone like that in the league past Sid and Ovi. Maybe Mac and McDavid get there one day? IF they both end up staying for their careers.

Nah, I think rebuilds will remain similar to what Chicago, SJS, Anaheim, or lol Buffalo are doing. Fact is, I would suggest that the Caps turnaround is the rather "extreme" exception rather than the rule. Sometimes a GM has a string of homeruns and it all comes together nicely. Just like us in 16 and 17. But the majority of the time, that's not the case.

If they want to retool with young players, the best young player to add to help Sid is Gavin McKenna. Which means they need to SUCK next year and suck hard. Tanking then quickly retooling in the 2026-27 off-season is as viable of a plan as anything he could realistically do right now.

Chasing McKenna just seems like a bad idea. The org has shown it won’t tank. There’s a lottery that can go anyway. I thought we were trying the Caps model?

If we’re waiting for another generational player to fall into our laps we’re screwed.

 

[SEALBound]

Chasing McKenna just seems like a bad idea. The org has shown it won’t tank. There’s a lottery that can go anyway. I thought we were trying the Caps model?

If we’re waiting for another generational player to fall into our laps we’re screwed.

I'm more saying "ideal situation". Dubas did reference LA and NYR as models as well where they added a 1st/2nd OV pick to the current group. I wouldn't say either model really worked for either team but that's more on the caliber of players that Laffy, Kakko, and Byfield are.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Chasing McKenna is undoubtedly the correct course of action. Whether this team's able to put aside their pride and do the smart thing is an entirely different story.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Don't forget the "game managers" looking the other way at the atrocities of Tom Wilson in two games of our series that playoff year. No major (or even minor) penalties for his cheap shots, nevermind any suspension. It wasn't just the blatant headshots which the refs ignored; remember Wilson's obvious penalty against Maatta (I think) with barely a minute to go in game 3 which directly led to the losing goal?

The Pens won 2 games, the Caps won 2 games.... and the refs won 2 games on behalf of Washington.

But the Pens had just won 2 Cups in a row and it was the Great Ape's turn to get one.

Even with all that, if Letang doesn't temporarily go in insane in Game 5, they win that game and likely the series.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm more saying "ideal situation". Dubas did reference LA and NYR as models as well where they added a 1st/2nd OV pick to the current group. I wouldn't say either model really worked for either team but that's more on the caliber of players that Laffy, Kakko, and Byfield are.

If we wanted to draft 1st overall next year, they had to move Rakell out at the deadline.

You're basically asking them to move EK, Rust and Rakell this summer and hope for a Sid injury if you want us to finish 1st overall next year.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Chychrun is only 26, is putting up an elite season in a contract year and the cap is going ballistic for the next three years. He got exactly what I expected he'd get on the open market, and what I would have happily paid him to come to the Pens if he made it to UFA. Prepare yourself for salary inflation like you've never seen before.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

If we're chasing McKenna, I'd prefer to do it on dry land. He's more catchable that way.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If we're chasing McKenna, I'd prefer to do it on dry land. He's more catchable that way.

He's also a shot in the dark even with the 1st OA considering the lottery, Pens have been burned before. It can be a huge hit, but it can be a devastating miss too.

 

[SEALBound]

If we wanted to draft 1st overall next year, they had to move Rakell out at the deadline.

You're basically asking them to move EK, Rust and Rakell this summer and hope for a Sid injury if you want us to finish 1st overall next year.

Unsurprisingly, wrong on both counts.

1. They can just as easily move Rakell this off-season when the cap opens up more. They could trade him at any point next season up to the deadline as well. This years demonstrates that even having Rakell on the roster doesn't keep up from being a bottom 10 team but yes, not having him likely makes us worse in pursuit of that goal.

2. There's this thing called the draft lottery. Just because you finish 32nd doesn't means you automatically get the 1st OV. The odds are the highest for the team that finishes 32nd but any team in bottom 5 has a legit chance. No matter where we finish, we still have to "win" the draft lottery.

 

[pistolpete11]

The spoiled talk might be a little overplayed but doesn't mean it's wrong. Everyone currently posting on these boards (talking age) - will be lucky to see someone anywhere close to Sid/Geno ever lace them up for the Penguins again. We're talking from now until we all move on.

The chances of 'another' Sid are so insanely low...let alone one that will play for your team. Folks group that - rightfully - with Mario/Jagr/Geno. Plenty of other high end all star / HOF talent - but we've had some of THE best of all time within a single life's span. That's wild.

Wait a minute. You're telling me we don't get to go from one pair of generational players to the next to the next? That doesn't sound right. Somebody get Uncle Gary on the phone.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Way to early to judge. But that pile of trinkets has nearly reached it's peak value.
That hill of magic beans still has potential and tons of room for growth. Dubas can get lucky on prospects (Fernstrom), picks. He can trade players or picks for more beans.
The 1st, two 2nds and Fernstrom is a good start for MP and a whole lot of nothing.

Yep. Agreed

Dubas has 100% done a great job since about the Guentzel trade last year, I don't think you can deny that.

It's hilarious to me that this team sold a ton of assets and got good value for them, but they got Dewar (3 goals and 4 points in 7 games with 18 hits) and Timmins (1 goals and 4 points in 7 games and +7) for a 5th and they're outperforming most of the guys they traded.

Agreed. This year the asset management is on point.


This year he successfully got futures where he barely gave any away.

His first year signings were weak. Karlsson trade honestly in a vacuum looks good but in a we didn't make it and lost a 1st sucks.

Guentzel trade looks great. Cap dumps for picks look great. Deadline looked great.

Id rather be a competitive team but I think JR into Hextall left a major mess.

 

[Gurglesons]

Unsurprisingly, wrong on both counts.

1. They can just as easily move Rakell this off-season when the cap opens up more. They could trade him at any point next season up to the deadline as well. This years demonstrates that even having Rakell on the roster doesn't keep up from being a bottom 10 team but yes, not having him likely makes us worse in pursuit of that goal.

2. There's this thing called the draft lottery. Just because you finish 32nd doesn't means you automatically get the 1st OV. The odds are the highest for the team that finishes 32nd but any team in bottom 5 has a legit chance. No matter where we finish, we still have to "win" the draft lottery.

One team has moved up since they instituted the new format in 2021 and it was Chicago who was picking 3rd.

I don't think the team is focused on getting McKenna next year and if we do it's because we fell ass backwards into it.

 

[chethejet]

Pens need quality at the top of the totem pole. Lots of nice depth and potential second line players. Dubas was given an impossible task here. But unlike most GM's he is attacking the system's total lack of prospects when he arrived. He has IMHO added nice depth to a barren farm system. Now the next moses are getting two top 6 centers. He can do that this year depending on the Rangers pick. Next year those wanting a playoff caliber team may find the need to add quality upper end talent has to happen first. dubas may with smart trades get the roster in better shape depth wise and younger faster ect. But in the end. father time for Geno, Sid, Letang will continue to erode play in a long season.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Every GM who doesn't have a legitimate chance at the 2nd round of next year's POs should be tanking for McKenna.

 

[cygnus47]

Yep. Agreed

Agreed. This year the asset management is on point.


This year he successfully got futures where he barely gave any away.

His first year signings were weak. Karlsson trade honestly in a vacuum looks good but in a we didn't make it and lost a 1st sucks.

Guentzel trade looks great. Cap dumps for picks look great. Deadline looked great.

Id rather be a competitive team but I think JR into Hextall left a major mess.

The main thing Dubas didn’t do in those first seasons was fire Sully. If we wanted to compete, we had to do that. I can see how it was justified, but he didn’t address the #1 issue.

Since Guentzel ive got no issues so far. He hitched his wagon to Sully when trying to win, but he pivoted as soon as it didn’t work and we’ve been rebuilding since. Keeping a loser coach when you’re trying to lose makes sense. If we don’t dump Raks and EK before next deadline I’ll turn on him, but so far the only “issue” is him being disingenuous to the media about what we’re doing which I have no problem with.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Not only is rebuilding very viable, it would be the path plenty of orgs. take at this point. They choose not to. Most likely due to perceived short term financial gain with long term cost uncertainty. They are not the Pittsburgh Crosbys. Plenty were Penguins fan before Crosby was born and will be Penguins fan long after he has retired. Lemieux spent his last four years on non-playoff teams. Gretzky spent three of his last fives years on non-playoff teams. Crosby was part of the longest sustained stretch of team success out of any cap era player. Rebuilding is not some major disrespect to him, it's the inevitable nature of the league he was a part of and beneficiary of. At this point they are addicts chasing their one last hit before ODing.

Plenty of orgs. have had star players who have asked out because they know a rebuild is coming and want to compete. Crosby has not asked out, and it would be a big mistake to force him to.
I realize that people will disagree on that last part, though, so we may have to agree to disagree here. Nonetheless, the organization seems to agree with me.

I would argue that “rebuilding” is actually the way to help Sid the most in his last couple years…getting young top talent like McKenna is the only way forward to becoming a contender, not signing Marner…that’s why getting as high a draft pick as possible in this draft and hopefully getting a player ready to start at least by the 2026-27 season is crucial…

Also firing the coach and bringing up the best of the current players we’ve developed is needed: Murashov, Pickering, Koivunen, McG, Broz…

Getting top talent like McKenna might be a good idea, but if he's going to help Sid in any way, he's going to need to be able to produce sooner rather than later. We might not have enough time to develop McKenna, as far as helping Sid goes.

Strong disagree.

How many players are even better than Crosby at this stage? A number of current playoff teams don't even have one player as good as Crosby, let alone better.

Washington's arguably the best team in the league and they don't have anyone better than Crosby.

It depends on who's doing the measuring, but there are plenty of forwards who are better than Crosby at this stage, or at least, are having better seasons than Crosby is at this stage.
For instance, while I would not say that Aliaksei Protas is a better hockey player than Crosby is, he's definitely having a better season than Crosby is.