24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

[AuroraBorealis]

He deserved to be called up this year already. The guys in his way were jokes.

 

[Sideline]

Dubas interview starts at 26 mins. He confirms that his mandate was take one last run with the core in his first offseason and if that didn't work transition to a rebuild.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Basically what everyone with a brain knew already with Dubi in season 1.

 

[SomeDude]

Basically what everyone with a brain knew already with Dubi in season 1.

The problem is essentially every decision he made to give them one last run was the wrong one, and some people expect that he’s going to suddenly figure out how to make the right moves when it is needed despite all the data we have about his career being the opposite.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The problem is essentially every decision he made to give them one last run was the wrong one, and some people expect that he’s going to suddenly figure out how to make the right moves when it is needed despite all the data we have about his career being the opposite.

Even if he made better moves in summer '23, that team wasn't taking out Florida in a best of 7. So it doesn't bother me.
Hextall did way too much damage for that.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Dubas interview starts at 26 mins. He confirms that his mandate was take one last run with the core in his first offseason and if that didn't work transition to a rebuild.

Yeah and when he says "transition to a rebuild", he means FSG are mandating that it's a quick turnaround. Scorched earth isn't allowed, even though that's what we need.

 

[SomeDude]

Even if he made better moves in summer '23, that team wasn't taking out Florida in a best of 7. So it doesn't bother me.
Hextall did way too much damage for that.

I don’t think anyone really thinks it would have. The point is he did a horrible job, yet people think he somehow is going to become a good GM now.

It would have just been cool to at least avoid hand cuffing the team for the immediate future with bad contracts. Some of them very easily predictable.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t think anyone really thinks it would have. The point is he did a horrible job, yet people think he somehow is going to become a good GM now.

It would have just been cool to at least avoid hand cuffing the team for the immediate future with bad contracts. Some of them very easily predictable.

Well he's won like 70-80% of the trades imo. Drafting well, by all appearances.
Just a question of chilling on the bad long term signings, and not catering to Sully's requests for trash bottom-sixers. If he does that, he can be a good GM.

I don't think anyone predicted Graves to be this poor. He was coming off a strong season. But yeah his term demands and the team's position didn't line up. Unnecessary risk.

 

[SomeDude]

Well he's won like 70-80% of the trades imo. Drafting well, by all appearances.
Just a question of chilling on the bad long term signings, and not catering to Sully's requests for trash bottom-sixers. If he does that, he can be a good GM.

I don't think anyone predicted Graves to be this poor. He was coming off a strong season. But yeah his term demands and the team's position didn't line up. Unnecessary risk.

My isssue is that he’s having the same problems that he did in Toronto: terrible goalie analysis, sticking by a coach clearly well past his expiration date, and generally overpaying guys on long term deals.

He hasn’t learned anything.

 

[SEALBound]

Dubas interview starts at 26 mins. He confirms that his mandate was take one last run with the core in his first offseason and if that didn't work transition to a rebuild.

Oh look at that, he told a bunch of HF yokels to f*** off at 35min.

 

[SomeDude]

Not a lot of revisionist history in the absurdity of watching your season circle the drain almost solely due to a horrible PP and never even considering firing the coach in charge of it. That’s indefensible.

Friendly reminder that Todd Reirden is so respected that he’s still unemployed.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

My isssue is that he’s having the same problems that he did in Toronto: terrible goalie analysis, sticking by a coach clearly well past his expiration date, and generally overpaying guys on long term deals.

He hasn’t learned anything.

We don't know that firing Sully is even an option. FSG adore him. Dubas has already clarified that he had a mandate in year 1. We can't assume he has full autonomy now. It's more likely that he doesn't based on how much FSG interfere.

I care a lot more about what he's doing with our goalie prospects than whatever we get out of our main goalies now. They weren't gonna change the course of anything.
Blomqvist got his chance this year, which I approve of. Murashov is being properly developed.

I still would rather have Dubas for a rebuild than a lot of other GM's. I don't think they woulda replenished this prospect pool as well, or fixed Wilkes to this extent.
And I don't think a replacement would draft better either.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Not a lot of revisionist history in the absurdity of watching your season circle the drain almost solely due to a horrible PP and never even considering firing the coach in charge of it. That’s indefensible.

Friendly reminder that Todd Reirden is so respected that he’s still unemployed.

Will 100% agree on that one. Even when he fired him at the end of the season, Sullivan gave him hell over it.
That's one of the core problems here. The corruption and nepotism has set in. They gotta break it.

 

[SomeDude]

We don't know that firing Sully is even an option. FSG adore him. Dubas has already clarified that he had a mandate in year 1. We can't assume he has full autonomy now. It's more likely that he doesn't based on how much FSG interfere.

I care a lot more about what he's doing with our goalie prospects than whatever we get out of our main goalies now. They weren't gonna change the course of anything.
Blomqvist got his chance this year, which I approve of. Murashov is being properly developed.

I still would rather have Dubas for a rebuild than a lot of other GM's. I don't think they woulda replenished this prospect pool as well, or fixed Wilkes to this extent.
And I don't think a replacement would draft better either.

We will see on the rebuilding front. Positive progress has been made there. He may do a good job. Even if he does, I don’t have confidence that he will be able to build an actual contending team from that.

Regardless, I’ve got a lot of pent up angry takes from 2 days of no HFboards posting.


edit: pics and gifs don’t work lol. What a quality operation we’ve got going on here.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Mavrik Bourque in DAL is another one.

A 4.5m cap hit for him would be one second round pick and I think that's worth it. I don't think Dallas will match that.

2 X 4.5M AAV is something I would do.

Dallas would happily match that.
They appear to not have much cap for next season, but appearances can deceive. A Tyler Seguin buyout is absurdly team-friendly. He must've had a lot of signing bonuses earlier in the contract.

The problem is essentially every decision he made to give them one last run was the wrong one,

When no correct decision is possible, every decision is the wrong one.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol "no correct decision is possible". This is not kobayashi maru or nuclear war. This is hockey.

My best educated guess is that the forum committed suicide when it read these kinds of posts. And we have brought it back to suffer anew.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah I think it was pretty obvious Dubas was given a “try one more time and then rebuild” mandate, but hearing it from him makes it pretty much a fact. That doesn’t change that a lot of his moves in the first year were dogshit, but it does explain why there was a quick pivot from that to rebuilding.

IMO he has done a good job overall dating back to when this team really started to rebuild with the Guentzel trade, but that doesn’t change that his first 6-9 months were absolutely atrocious. Adding Karlsson, Smith, Graves, Acciari and Nieto while re-signing Jarry was almost entirely a failure, and I only say “almost” because I feel people don’t consider Karlsson a total failure.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I feel like "every decision made was the incorrect one" encompasses this entire team's identity from like June 2017 (Reaves trade) through when Jake was dealt.

 

[SomeDude]

When no correct decision is possible, every decision is the wrong one.

Of course, it’s not fair to criticize him like it wasn’t fair to criticize him in Toronto. It is always someone else or some mitigating factor’s fault. The man has never made a bad decision in his life. It’s just a coincidence that disappointment has followed him his entire career.

and I only say “almost” because I feel people don’t consider Karlsson a total failure.

It has been, but it likely wouldn’t be if he just got rid of the damn coach.

 

[IcedCapp]

The problem is essentially every decision he made to give them one last run was the wrong one, and some people expect that he’s going to suddenly figure out how to make the right moves when it is needed despite all the data we have about his career being the opposite.

the absolute worst part of the internet is how people who are very likely incompetent at their own job get to sit on their couch and act like all-knowing wizards at everyone else's job.

 

[SomeDude]

the absolute worst part of the internet is how people who are very likely incompetent at their own job get to sit on their couch and act like all-knowing wizards at everyone else's job.

Ah yes, personal insults, the sign of a truly stable and secure person.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Without a ton of cap space the issues on this club aren't going away. The thought of "one more time w.Sid" - folks aren't putting the roster ahead of that conversation. Say we get a good start:

- Sully gets fired. Preferably the morning after we're officially out of the playoffs (aren't we already?)
- We land Marner in FA

Great...what about goaltending? Vodoo? Sure...what about our D corps? Still have an absolutely WEAK top 6 forward group WITH Marner. Top line? Sure - Geno-Sid-Marner will get her done. If they bring in a 2C and keep one of Raks/Rust - you have the makings of an acceptable albeit not overly thrilling second line. And that's where we drop off of a cliff.

I love the idea and hate how putrid and uninspiring this club has been. It's genuinely a chore to watch 80-90% of the games (being generous) - so the games I DO turn in to, often fall flat. I'd rather win, always. Just seems practically impossible going forward...and certainly in Sid's 1C window. I think part of this logic is why folks don't buy "trying to go in or load up one more time"....how exactly? If that were even remotely the case why wouldn't you have been in on the Tarasenko's of yesteryear, Hall, etc? Zero top 6 help in Dubas' tenure and the construction of the D corps is ultra bad. Good thing we have....some of the worst goaltending too.

'25-'26 ain't the year.

Targeting '26-'27. That's when guys we were paid to take on like Hayes and Heinen are off the books, and our younger guys will be more ready to contribute.

 

[eXile3]

the absolute worst part of the internet is how people who are very likely incompetent at their own job get to sit on their couch and act like all-knowing wizards at everyone else's job.

Yes, but there are also legitimately smart people who know what they’re talking about. That’s why I get frustrated when Dubas craps on the hockey internet community. Yes most are just venting without perspective, but also, they’re some smart people out there.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Lol "no correct decision is possible". This is not kobayashi maru or nuclear war. This is hockey.

And? No possible decision that could have been made after the 2022-23 season could have made the Penguins into contenders again. Therefore, no correct decisions ('correct' being defined as a decision that would have turned the Penguins into a contender) could have been made.

Of course, it’s not fair to criticize him like it wasn’t fair to criticize him in Toronto. It is always someone else or some mitigating factor’s fault. The man has never made a bad decision in his life. It’s just a coincidence that disappointment has followed him his entire career.

Disappointment hasn't followed Dubas his entire career, so this is yet another incorrect claim that you've made.

(There was supposed to have been a photo of Dubas lifting the Calder Cup here, but the forum isn't loading photos right now.)

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah I think it was pretty obvious Dubas was given a “try one more time and then rebuild” mandate, but hearing it from him makes it pretty much a fact. That doesn’t change that a lot of his moves in the first year were dogshit, but it does explain why there was a quick pivot from that to rebuilding.

IMO he has done a good job overall dating back to when this team really started to rebuild with the Guentzel trade, but that doesn’t change that his first 6-9 months were absolutely atrocious. Adding Karlsson, Smith, Graves, Acciari and Nieto while re-signing Jarry was almost entirely a failure, and I only say “almost” because I feel people don’t consider Karlsson a total failure.

It’s doesn’t change anything though, because I do not care how well he follows his bosses’ orders but how well the hockey team performs under him.

I do not care in the slightest how well FSG’s bottom line does. I care about the product he puts on the ice and that has been abysmal. We have made some steps in the right direction, but until we have an entertaining product, he has failed, IMO.

Again, I’m not saying there has to be cups here, but hockey is entertainment first and foremost and if a team is boring, it is a failure, plain and simple.

And? No possible decision that could have been made after the 2022-23 season could have made the Penguins into contenders again

I am not asking that they become immediate contenders but lol at your zero sum theory thinking.