Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026
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I don't think he's made largely good moves, but if we'd rather this thread just be positive vibes and wishes, that's fine too, I guess. What the f*** do I care with a team that is this bad to watch?
I mean people can post whatever I'd just rather have reasonable discussions about stuff rather than just doomer posting.I don't think he's made largely good moves, but if we'd rather this thread just be positive vibes and wishes, that's fine too, I guess. What the f*** do I care with a team that is this bad to watch?
Gurglesons
Registered User
How is it doomer when Dubas has done nothing positive to swing the pendulum here or in Toronto in his GM career?
Winning a few C level trades isn't rebuilding a team. Drafting a couple middle six guys isn't winning a cup.
Dubas has never made moves that have resulted in a team pushing beyond what their constraints were.
He took a fringe playoff team in Toronto and turned them into a team that won a single playoff round in 5 years.
He took a fringe playoff team in PIttsburgh and turned them into a team that is a fringe playoff team.
Good GMs push past what their rosters limitations are.
Did you have the same energy when it was Hextall everyone was complaining about non-stop? Or when everyone wanted to physically place JR in a retirement home? Not sure why Dubas gets so much more grace than anyone else and is above criticism.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Yeah, it's so hilarious to see the Penguins fanbase that literally chanted "Fire Hextall" at a game suddenly act like accusing a GM of not being good after being with the team for two years is a cardinal sin.
But, I guess we've acquired more picks than anyone else in the next three years despite the reality being we got a bunch of 3rds and 7ths.
My main thing with Dubas is he has done a great job of half his mandate, and piss-poor with the other half of his mandate. This summer will tell us a lot about whether he can actually do a better job at what he has been bad at to date.
Adding futures? No problem. He has done what he set out to do and done well. No complaints there. Over 30 draft picks in the next three drafts is what you want. The prospect pool lacks elite talent but it is a lot better than it was before he started his accelerated retool. So far, so good with me.
But at the same time, he wants the core to have a competitive shot at making the playoffs and doing some damage if they get in. To that end, his record there is woeful. The free agents brought in have been a disaster. The Karlsson trade has not panned out (though I blame the head coach and the player himself more than the president/GM on that deal), and his idea to trade for bad contracts is a very odd strategy when you are trying to pull double-duty with this accelerated rebuild. You have to know as a GM that acquiring a Kevin Hayes and a Cody Glass is not going to help, but rather hinder. He has done well when forced to trade pending free agents, but his Houdini act cannot last. And there are still too many players returning next season that are under contract.
If he adds a Marner; if he is able to trade Jarry; if he does NOT bring in more Mike Sullivan-type players; then we have a fighting chance to succeed at this double move. But the minute we trade for another contract nobody else wants, it's over. The moment he signs a Matt Nieto/Jansen Harkins for the farm team (but we all know where that player will wind up after training camp), it's over.
AND, let's not forget the draft. It's great to have a lot of picks. But he needs to really hit on some. The pressure is on.
Adding futures? No problem. He has done what he set out to do and done well. No complaints there. Over 30 draft picks in the next three drafts is what you want. The prospect pool lacks elite talent but it is a lot better than it was before he started his accelerated retool. So far, so good with me.
But at the same time, he wants the core to have a competitive shot at making the playoffs and doing some damage if they get in. To that end, his record there is woeful. The free agents brought in have been a disaster. The Karlsson trade has not panned out (though I blame the head coach and the player himself more than the president/GM on that deal), and his idea to trade for bad contracts is a very odd strategy when you are trying to pull double-duty with this accelerated rebuild. You have to know as a GM that acquiring a Kevin Hayes and a Cody Glass is not going to help, but rather hinder. He has done well when forced to trade pending free agents, but his Houdini act cannot last. And there are still too many players returning next season that are under contract.
If he adds a Marner; if he is able to trade Jarry; if he does NOT bring in more Mike Sullivan-type players; then we have a fighting chance to succeed at this double move. But the minute we trade for another contract nobody else wants, it's over. The moment he signs a Matt Nieto/Jansen Harkins for the farm team (but we all know where that player will wind up after training camp), it's over.
AND, let's not forget the draft. It's great to have a lot of picks. But he needs to really hit on some. The pressure is on.
I said criticism is warranted. I just think it's lame to be like oh XYZ moves that Dubas have made sucked therefore everything he does in the future is going to suck too. Especially since most of his moves since pivoting to rebuild have been good.
It's fine to say he's sucked so far overall (though like I said I think he's been largely good since pivoting to this retool/rebuild).
What I find boring is people just assuming all future moves will suck too and just being all doomer about everything all the time.
But you guys do you. I'm not the arbiter of what people can or can't post. Just offering my ill gotten opinions on things.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I think the reality is most people are going on and on about the great moves we have made for the future and we currently have one extra 1st and we gave up one last year.
We didn’t move Rakell which is totally counter to the idea of what Dubas is doing.
And our top prospects are McGroarty at F, Pickering or Brunicke at D, and Murashov or Blomqvist at G.
Nothing about that package of assets, decision making or prospects says we are anywhere different than where we were when Hextall got fired. Dubas hasn’t improved anything beyond the obvious which is when your team is out of the playoffs you sell pieces.
I agree that not moving Rakell was imo a mistake. And if you want to say that Dubas has just done the basic things you'd expect a non contending gm to do since he pivoted....sure. That's fair. He has gotten good value in the trades he's made this year though.
But I'll take Dubas giving us average gming after the run of post cup JR/Hextall/pre rebuild Dubas.
For the first time in a long time I feel like a Pens gm has a plan I trust. We will see how long he stays patient. If he tries to pivot too soon to trying to contend I won't be pleased.
Gurglesons
Registered User
What is the plan?
I don’t see how you look at what Boston did at the deadline and think PIT has a plan.
I think "the plan" is to tiptoe around Sid until he gets his final Olympics and retires. I'd say there's a noted shift in approach after the EK experiment failed and Jake got dealt, but I also don't think they're fully committing to anything one way or another still. The team probably genuinely believes Sullivan's the answer at coach. They probably genuinely believe keeping guys like Rakell and Rust around is the correct choice as opposed to collecting draft capital and/or young players.
It's all an annoying waiting game while everything's in suspended animation until Sid retires imo. They don't want to fully commit to trying to compete again for the next two years because it's likely to blow up in their faces and it'll make the post-Sid years that much more difficult to navigate. But they also don't want to make no-brainer moves like trading a 32 year old having a career year in an insane seller's market because, well, someone's gotta play with Sid!
It's all an annoying waiting game while everything's in suspended animation until Sid retires imo. They don't want to fully commit to trying to compete again for the next two years because it's likely to blow up in their faces and it'll make the post-Sid years that much more difficult to navigate. But they also don't want to make no-brainer moves like trading a 32 year old having a career year in an insane seller's market because, well, someone's gotta play with Sid!
Gurglesons
Registered User
I think "the plan" is to tiptoe around Sid until he gets his final Olympics and retires. I'd say there's a noted shift in approach after the EK experiment failed and Jake got dealt, but I also don't think they're fully committing to anything one way or another still. The team probably genuinely believes Sullivan's the answer at coach. They probably genuinely believe keeping guys like Rakell and Rust around is the correct choice as opposed to collecting draft capital and/or young players.
It's all an annoying waiting game while everything's in suspended animation until Sid retires imo. They don't want to fully commit to trying to compete again for the next two years because it's likely to blow up in their faces and it'll make the post-Sid years that much more difficult to navigate. But they also don't want to make no-brainer moves like trading a 32 year old having a career year in an insane seller's market because, well, someone's gotta play with Sid!
Waiting for Sid to retire is not a plan IMO.
Dubas already blew a hole in the competitive window of this take by trading both Guentzel and Pettersson from the locker room’s perspective.
The plan is holding out for the moon on Rakell and trading Guentzel for whatever is offered...for reasons.
Should have just paid Jake what he wanted to keep Sid happy and shipped him out for a huge return in a few years if we're gonna keep Rakell, the much worse player, for that same reason.
Just spinning tires and collecting mid-round picks is what I'm seeing, which I suppose is a plan. If the goal is to keep a team in mediocrity for an extended period of time.
Should have just paid Jake what he wanted to keep Sid happy and shipped him out for a huge return in a few years if we're gonna keep Rakell, the much worse player, for that same reason.
Just spinning tires and collecting mid-round picks is what I'm seeing, which I suppose is a plan. If the goal is to keep a team in mediocrity for an extended period of time.
I think the plan is accumulate picks and assets and use those to either draft players or be in on other good youngish players that become available.
Then hope that the next wave hits before Sid retires and maybe they squeeze out a playoff appearance for him. Then keep building towards the future.
In the meantime Dubas is going to do short term stopgaps and not sign big free agents until he feels the team is ready for that.
I think the upside of this plan is if it fails the Pens at least are accumulating picks anyways. And if it succeeds Sid gets a playoff appearance or two depending on how long he plays.
I think the plan is to not f*** anything up and wait for Sid to get his final Olympics. It's a shit plan, it's a cowardly plan, I hate the plan, but it seems to be the plan Dubas is going to follow. Don't f*** up Sid's line by dealing Rakell or Rust, even if the return would be good-to-great. Don't f*** up by chasing big name FAs just to have them flounder around and ruin their value for the inevitable post-Sid trade out of town.
It sucks, but it's a plan, and it seems to be what the team prefers.
IMO, he should've dealt Rakell for the best return possible at the TDL, he should trade Rust as soon as the dust settles a few days into the FA frenzy and try to fleece a team that missed out on a big name. He should trade EK with as much retained as necessary in order to try and get a 1st rounder back. He should continue to weaponize cap space by taking on bad players for picks/prospects. He should continue to make low risk signings of guys teams may be interested in come TDL like a Beau, an Eller, etc. Commit to the future because there is no present, Sidney Crosby or not.
It sucks, but it's a plan, and it seems to be what the team prefers.
IMO, he should've dealt Rakell for the best return possible at the TDL, he should trade Rust as soon as the dust settles a few days into the FA frenzy and try to fleece a team that missed out on a big name. He should trade EK with as much retained as necessary in order to try and get a 1st rounder back. He should continue to weaponize cap space by taking on bad players for picks/prospects. He should continue to make low risk signings of guys teams may be interested in come TDL like a Beau, an Eller, etc. Commit to the future because there is no present, Sidney Crosby or not.
I still can't believe a week ago we were talking about trading Rakell and potentially lucking into a Schaefer/Misa/Hagens/Martone with a little bit of lotto luck, and now we're watching this dipshit team go on a mini run that's completely worthless and only serves to f*** up their chance at landing the best prospect they've had on paper since Staal 20 years ago.
Gurglesons
Registered User
So the plan is to spin tires and not have an actual plan just like it has been since around 2021?
