Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

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Again, I have Martone over Misa right now. But that's based on very little "research".

I think who I'd pick depends on how confident I am in Misa sticking at center. If he has to shift to wing, I'd pick Martone over him. But I'd take Misa at center over Martone at RW.

Either way, I don't think you can really go wrong with either guy. If they pan out, I really like Martone as the 1st line RW and McGroarty and Koivunen as the 2nd line winger duo.
 
Also, bigger picture item from The Athletic's Mark Lazerus that's about Chicago but could be about the Penguins' path, too.

Lazerus notes that Chicago is currently on the classic tear it down completely, rebuild exclusively through the draft route that many GMs prefer. Only it hasn't worked in the Cap era, as most notably seen by Buffalo and Edmonton.

The new model is Florida.

Zito didn’t tear it down. He didn’t rebuild the Panthers. He remade them. He used every tool at his disposal — trades, free agency, the waiver wire — to reconstruct the plane while it was still in the air. Within four years, the Panthers were Stanley Cup champions, a model franchise, the envy of the league.


How does this relate to the Pens? I think Dubas is positioning the Penguins to do something similar to Florida, with a mix of the Kings thrown in.

I think Dubas wants to build through the draft more than Florida did, but not as extreme as what Chicago is doing. If you can replicate what the Kings did by landing a Byfield and Clarke with a Top 10 and a Top 3 pick in back-to-back years and supplement that with prospects who you hit on in with an abundance of 2nd and 3rd round picks, then that gives you room to be aggressive in free agency and on the trade market like Florida.

The Kings also have vets like Doughty and Kopitar finishing out their careers, lending their knowledge to the younger players.

Florida, meanwhile, built a very specific culture and identity. It was aggressive in the pursuit of players who fit that mold, and hired a staff who could manage players within that framework. That'll be the other key for Dubas. It's one thing to identify good players and acquire them. It's another to put the pieces together and utilize them properly.

We'll see if he can pull it off.
 
Jack Nesbitt is a guy I would like to see them take if the Rangers pick is in the 14 to 20 range. He's a 6'4" 185lbs centre. Very boom or bust based on slow acceleration, but his frame has room for plenty of muscle that should help with that.
 
Martone would be great if he fell into the Pens' lap. Any of the big four would be tbh.

The only thing I'm concerned with is this team committing to falling into a top 4 pick. That, and not being the team baited into picking McQueen because of his size. May come to eat crow on McQueen but man, he feels like your classic bait pick, destined to bust, that teams get googly eyes for because he's tall.
 
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I know the narrative here is that Dubas sucks and can't pick a direction or whatever but the team is rebuilding in all but name at this point

Ya people just want to hate Dubas no matter what. After his first offseason he pivoted hard and has been restocking the farm down through wheeling as well as accumulating picks.

Koivunen is only a year older than McG and is 8th in points in the AHL. He has been accumulating a nice mix of different types of players. There isn't a lot of first round talent but the system is definitely getting to a much better place.

I am not saying Dubas has been great but it is 100% clear what he is doing and it really doesn't look like Sid, Sullivan or anyone on the team really cares. It is only the national media whining
 
Also, bigger picture item from The Athletic's Mark Lazerus that's about Chicago but could be about the Penguins' path, too.

Lazerus notes that Chicago is currently on the classic tear it down completely, rebuild exclusively through the draft route that many GMs prefer. Only it hasn't worked in the Cap era, as most notably seen by Buffalo and Edmonton.

The new model is Florida.




How does this relate to the Pens? I think Dubas is positioning the Penguins to do something similar to Florida, with a mix of the Kings thrown in.

I think Dubas wants to build through the draft more than Florida did, but not as extreme as what Chicago is doing. If you can replicate what the Kings did by landing a Byfield and Clarke with a Top 10 and a Top 3 pick in back-to-back years and supplement that with prospects who you hit on in with an abundance of 2nd and 3rd round picks, then that gives you room to be aggressive in free agency and on the trade market like Florida.

The Kings also have vets like Doughty and Kopitar finishing out their careers, lending their knowledge to the younger players.

Florida, meanwhile, built a very specific culture and identity. It was aggressive in the pursuit of players who fit that mold, and hired a staff who could manage players within that framework. That'll be the other key for Dubas. It's one thing to identify good players and acquire them. It's another to put the pieces together and utilize them properly.

We'll see if he can pull it off.

Florida had a 26 year old Barkov when they traded Tkachuk.

We have a 37 year old Crosby.

If you really think Dubas has the roster evaluation to make moves like the Cats, you are completely out to lunch.

Dude hasn’t made a good trade in his career with the future as an outlook.
 
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I'd also be cautious about hoping we win the lottery this year, my preference is to be able to win the lottery next year or the year after because of the rule we can't win more than 2x in a 5 year span...or is that irrelevant and I'm overthinking it?
 
Martone would be great if he fell into the Pens' lap. Any of the big four would be tbh.

The only thing I'm concerned with is this team committing to falling into a top 4 pick. That, and not being the team baited into picking McQueen because of his size. May come to eat crow on McQueen but man, he feels like your classic bait pick, destined to bust, that teams get googly eyes for because he's tall.

Its ok espn is saying we will get Utah's number 10 pick. We can get boht Martone and McQueen
 
Ya people just want to hate Dubas no matter what. After his first offseason he pivoted hard and has been restocking the farm down through wheeling as well as accumulating picks.

Koivunen is only a year younger than McG and is 8th in points in the AHL. He has been accumulating a nice mix of different types of players. There isn't a lot of first round talent but the system is definitely getting to a much better place.

I am not saying Dubas has been great but it is 100% clear what he is doing and it really doesn't look like Sid, Sullivan or anyone on the team really cares. It is only the national media whining
I think you meant older.
 
Seems insane to try and compare the last four years of Florida to either Pittsburgh/Chicago. Pens and Hawks had/have an aging core and no pipeline ready to follow them. Florida, four years ago, had two prime top-line forwards in Barkov and Huberdeau (yes, they traded him, but still), two prime top-3 D-men in Ekblad and Weegar, a tried and true #1 goalie, and a strong pipeline of highly-regarded prospects (Lundell, Samoskevich, Knight, Tippett, etc.) Pens right now and the Hawks two years ago didn't have anything close to that.

Yes, they're prospects didn't all pan out, but having a strong pipeline allowed them to trade the some of them, along with some 1sts for Tkachuk, Reinhart, and Giroux.

Yes, they acquired Tkachuk, but only because they had two big, proven pieces to move for him. Yes, they acquired Reinhart, but they already had Barkov to play him with. Forsling was a great pickup but pointing to that and saying "why don't we do that" is worthless. The Penguins and I'm sure the Blackhawks have made a bunch of waiver claims, you can never expect them to become regulars. much less top-pairing D-men.
 
Florida had a 26 year old Barkov when they traded Tkachuk.

We have a 37 year old Crosby.

If you really think Dubas has the roster evaluation to make moves like the Cats, you are completely out to lunch.

Dude hasn’t made a good trade in his career with the future as an outlook.

He got what appears to be a 1st in the 10-15 range for a rental Marcus Pettersson.
 
Zito didn’t tear it down. He didn’t rebuild the Panthers. He remade them. He used every tool at his disposal — trades, free agency, the waiver wire — to reconstruct the plane while it was still in the air. Within four years, the Panthers were Stanley Cup champions, a model franchise, the envy of the league.
Florida already had a lot of the foundations for a contender in place thanks to many years of high draft picks. Zito did a great job, of course but the situation of the Penguins is rather different to that of the Panthers in 2020 when Zito took over.
 
Also, bigger picture item from The Athletic's Mark Lazerus that's about Chicago but could be about the Penguins' path, too.

Lazerus notes that Chicago is currently on the classic tear it down completely, rebuild exclusively through the draft route that many GMs prefer. Only it hasn't worked in the Cap era, as most notably seen by Buffalo and Edmonton.

The new model is Florida.
The Pens and the majority of teams don’t have Barkov (2OA), Huberdeau (3OA), Ekblad (1OA) in their primes to play around with.

Most teams aren’t going to get a 1D out of the best waiver pickup maybe ever either.

Not an easy “model” to replicate.
 
I think it is far too early to project any sort of way that this team is going to rebuild. This team is easily 5 years away from making noise again and probably no one on the current NHL team will be on the NHL team when it's good again. This team could win some draft lotteries and be set up quickly with a core like Martone, McKenna, Dupont by 2027, or maybe they could draft a good core and somehow pull off a huge UFA name in the next couple of years to take that core to the next level. Just a lot of time for that path to become obvious.

This team just really needs to avoid doing what Chicago did, but any sort of blueprint for how the team can become good again is too premature to implement. That's a reason why I like targeting young NHL talent as well, you're not going to become the Hawks if you're trading for NHL proven guys. The Hawks trading Hagel when they did is looking like one of the dumbest moves they could have made.
 
Its ok espn is saying we will get Utah's number 10 pick. We can get boht Martone and McQueen
I don't even think I'd want to use a 10th overall on McQueen tbh man. :laugh: I'd say throw a flier on him at like 20th but I also think he's the exact type of guy to end up surprising by going top 5. I think if it all works out for the guy, you're maybe looking at a Bjugstad situation where the guy's a rangy bottom 6 fixture but not a physical presence whatsoever. At worst, you've got a tall kid who can't skate for shit and maybe doesn't even carve out an AHL career for himself.
I'd also be cautious about hoping we win the lottery this year, my preference is to be able to win the lottery next year or the year after because of the rule we can't win more than 2x in a 5 year span...or is that irrelevant and I'm overthinking it?
You can move up by teams falling or by moving up incrementally, and iirc you can be the team that finishes 32nd and end up being the 1st overall (no change in your order), but you can only move up to 1st by winning the lottery twice.

The odds are stacked against even teams finishing 32nd, so I don't think it's a genuine worry tbh. But yeah, definitely much, much better to pick 1st overall the next two years.
 
IF. Once again I think people will be disappointed when they aren’t moved.

They don't have to be traded right now to be traded at some point.

Karlsson is a UFA after the 2027 season, so he's at latest being traded at a rental in 2027. He's still likely bringing back at least a 2nd by doing that. Rakell is less certain, but he's still more likely to be sold off than not.
 
Also, bigger picture item from The Athletic's Mark Lazerus that's about Chicago but could be about the Penguins' path, too.

Lazerus notes that Chicago is currently on the classic tear it down completely, rebuild exclusively through the draft route that many GMs prefer. Only it hasn't worked in the Cap era, as most notably seen by Buffalo and Edmonton.

The new model is Florida.




How does this relate to the Pens? I think Dubas is positioning the Penguins to do something similar to Florida, with a mix of the Kings thrown in.

I think Dubas wants to build through the draft more than Florida did, but not as extreme as what Chicago is doing. If you can replicate what the Kings did by landing a Byfield and Clarke with a Top 10 and a Top 3 pick in back-to-back years and supplement that with prospects who you hit on in with an abundance of 2nd and 3rd round picks, then that gives you room to be aggressive in free agency and on the trade market like Florida.

The Kings also have vets like Doughty and Kopitar finishing out their careers, lending their knowledge to the younger players.

Florida, meanwhile, built a very specific culture and identity. It was aggressive in the pursuit of players who fit that mold, and hired a staff who could manage players within that framework. That'll be the other key for Dubas. It's one thing to identify good players and acquire them. It's another to put the pieces together and utilize them properly.

We'll see if he can pull it off.
He can’t do it unless he fires Sullivan…he needs to grow a pair lol
 

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