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Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

Pickering should 100% spend the rest of the year in WBS, no reason to rush him into this tire fire. They're fine with POJ, Koyla and Graves as their LD for the rest of the year.

I'd call up Ponomarev after the deadline but I'd leave all of their other young guys in WBS. And in Ponomarev's case, it's mostly about his waiver eligibility starting next year as why I want him in the NHL for the rest of the year.
 
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Gurglesons said:
I don't think it is. The management and coachign staff obviously thinks very, very little of Ryan Graves.
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Yup. And I think they're underwhelmed with POJ lately, too. POJ has made some glaring mistakes recently.

I think they'll send Shea down to make room, but one of Graves or POJ will be sitting to give Kolyachonok a look. Then if Grzelcyk is traded, you still have three left defensemen and can decide what you want to do with Pickering -- do you call him up for the end of the year or do you keep him in WBS to try to win a title with that group?
 
I find it a little strange that we wouldn't recall Pickering after a supposed Grz trade, mainly because he only started to struggle when we moved him to the right side. He also got hurt, which stopped momentum a little. But Pickering-Letang was money. Maybe Pickering-Karlsson would work, too? I think we should try it before the season ends. Kolyachonok is a nice addition for sure, though. The third pairing has played well since put together, but I don't think it is a long-term thing. Shea should be waived and sent to help the farm team.

Pickering-Karlsson
Joseph-Letang
Kolyachonok-Desharnais
Graves

I would like to see this after a Grz trade. As for the forwards, Sullivan is far worse with their usage than either the young goaltender or young defenseman, so Empoleon might have a point in keeping them down on the farm. But if you believe Sullivan will be back next year (and beyond) like I do, then I feel the Koivunen's and McGroarty's as well as Ponomarev should start to get acclimated to being buried when not scoring and passed over for the more responsible fourth-liners on the team. And Sullivan should start getting used to multiple youngsters in the lineup, where he might not be able to bury everyone the way he likes to do.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Pickering should 100% spend the rest of the year in WBS, no reason to rush him into this tire fire. They're fine with POJ, Koyla and Graves as their LD for the rest of the year.

I'd call up Ponomarev after the deadline but I'd leave all of their other young guys in WBS. And in Ponomarev's case, it's mostly about his waiver eligibility starting next year as why I want him in the NHL for the rest of the year.
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Yeah, the more I think about it, you might see guys like Bemstrom, Puustinen, and Imama up after the deadline instead of Koivunen, McGroarty, etc. And I think they'll only call Ponomarev up if they need a center.

I think they want this group of actual prospects to try to make as deep of a run as possible in WBS, so they'll keep them together and call up the fringe guys. I'd like to see Poulin up, but even he may stay down to be the experienced leader for the AHL rookies.
 
Thinking about the trade deadline, when was the last time Dubas traded a player with term? He did not trade Reilly Smith or Lars Eller last trade deadline, only moving them on once they were in the final year of their deals. He just traded two expiring contracts to Vancouver. And obviously Guentzel last season. So, was the last time Dubas traded a player with term the blockbuster Karlsson trade? Ruutta, Granlund and Petry all had term, but he was forced to trade a first to make that deal happen. And I don't think Dubas wants to give up picks at this point.

So, while I believe Grz, Beauvillier and possibly even Glass are fairly likely to get traded before the deadline (I don't think Nieto would get anything unless he is a throw-in, and even then), I don't like the chances of Dubas trading the likes of Bunting, Nedeljkovic et al for this reason. He tends to keep players with term until their contract years.

So my focus will be on Grz, Beauvillier and Glass at this point. All have various levels of value for various reasons. But I doubt we get much in return for any of them. For me, Bunting and Ned would fetch more. And personally, I am not trading Rakell or Karlsson. Rakell is not going to get back what he is worth to this team, while Karlsson's value is nowhere near good enough to get good value.

Either Dubas changes his trading philosophy, or we won't have much of anything left to deal.
 
Jag68Sid87 said:
Thinking about the trade deadline, when was the last time Dubas traded a player with term? He did not trade Reilly Smith or Lars Eller last trade deadline, only moving them on once they were in the final year of their deals. He just traded two expiring contracts to Vancouver. And obviously Guentzel last season. So, was the last time Dubas traded a player with term the blockbuster Karlsson trade? Ruutta, Granlund and Petry all had term, but he was forced to trade a first to make that deal happen. And I don't think Dubas wants to give up picks at this point.

So, while I believe Grz, Beauvillier and possibly even Glass are fairly likely to get traded before the deadline (I don't think Nieto would get anything unless he is a throw-in, and even then), I don't like the chances of Dubas trading the likes of Bunting, Nedeljkovic et al for this reason. He tends to keep players with term until their contract years.

So my focus will be on Grz, Beauvillier and Glass at this point. All have various levels of value for various reasons. But I doubt we get much in return for any of them. For me, Bunting and Ned would fetch more. And personally, I am not trading Rakell or Karlsson. Rakell is not going to get back what he is worth to this team, while Karlsson's value is nowhere near good enough to get good value.

Either Dubas changes his trading philosophy, or we won't have much of anything left to deal.
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He has said he tried to trade Smith and Eller last season.

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

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DK Pittsburgh Sports: Penguins Scores, Schedules, Statistics, and News
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John Slaney, a coach for the AHL's Tucson Roadrunners, told PHNX in 2023 that Kolyachonok plays a "defensive style, killing penalties, killing plays quick, good stick, and his feet are phenomenal. He closes the play so fast."
 
Ulf5 said:
He has said he tried to trade Smith and Eller last season.

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

Penguins Scores, Schedules, Statistics, and News

DK Pittsburgh Sports: Penguins Scores, Schedules, Statistics, and News
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John Slaney, a coach for the AHL's Tucson Roadrunners, told PHNX in 2023 that Kolyachonok plays a "defensive style, killing penalties, killing plays quick, good stick, and his feet are phenomenal. He closes the play so fast."
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Geez, John Slaney sighting! I had no idea he was coaching.

Yeah, I hear you but I never really bought that he tried to trade them. Or that if he really really wanted to deal them, he could have. More like, if nobody gave him something really good, he knows his coach prefers to keep the veterans around. So he did.

I hope Kolyachonok's arrival means Grz will be dealt for sure, but this coaching staff loves this Bostonian so much. Let's see how much power Dubas has here.
 
Jag68Sid87 said:
Thinking about the trade deadline, when was the last time Dubas traded a player with term? He did not trade Reilly Smith or Lars Eller last trade deadline, only moving them on once they were in the final year of their deals. He just traded two expiring contracts to Vancouver. And obviously Guentzel last season. So, was the last time Dubas traded a player with term the blockbuster Karlsson trade? Ruutta, Granlund and Petry all had term, but he was forced to trade a first to make that deal happen. And I don't think Dubas wants to give up picks at this point.

So, while I believe Grz, Beauvillier and possibly even Glass are fairly likely to get traded before the deadline (I don't think Nieto would get anything unless he is a throw-in, and even then), I don't like the chances of Dubas trading the likes of Bunting, Nedeljkovic et al for this reason. He tends to keep players with term until their contract years.

So my focus will be on Grz, Beauvillier and Glass at this point. All have various levels of value for various reasons. But I doubt we get much in return for any of them. For me, Bunting and Ned would fetch more. And personally, I am not trading Rakell or Karlsson. Rakell is not going to get back what he is worth to this team, while Karlsson's value is nowhere near good enough to get good value.

Either Dubas changes his trading philosophy, or we won't have much of anything left to deal.
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You're missing a big one.

Dubas was the one - with Brendan Shanahan overseeing it - who did the original Kessel trade with the Penguins. Dave Nonis had been fired and Lou Lamouriello hadn't been hired yet, so Shanahan, Mark Hunter, and Dubas were running the team. Shanahan and Dubas handled the trade. Dubas actually said later that one of the drawbacks to that deal was how long Toronto had to retain on Kessel's contract.

Another big one was the Nazem Kadri trade. Kadri had a couple of years left on his deal when he was sent to Colorado for Tyson Barrie and Alex Kerfoot.

He also traded Travis Dermott and Trevor Moore with term on their contracts, and Rasmus Sandin was a restricted free agent when he was dealt to Washington, so the Leafs still would have had his rights.
 
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I don't know that it's Dubas philosophy so much as that guys with term just don't often get traded at the deadline. Teams have traditionally preferred cap flexibility and don't want guys with term.

Maybe that will change with the news about the cap going up
 
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Randy Butternubs said:
@Zirakzigil what do you think?
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About the waiver pick up? Ehhh... Worth the risk I guess. Low risk low reward. I am less interested in what happens this season and more interested in what we do in the off season. I am doubtful Marner is back in Toronto. Does Dubas go hard after him or Rantanen? One of them solidifies our top 6. We should hopefully get a little younger on our bottom 6, we have guys in the system that can come up. Maybe add 1 or 2 guys from free agency. Defence is the wildcard. What happens with Karlsson? Do we keep him for 1 more run at it? If not then what? Honestly if we are trading him and retention needs to happen, Id rather swap him out to Chicago and take a flyer on Jones. Let them retain on a Karlsson trade and let us see if Jones can bounce back. Hes wanting out of Chicago and they have been a disaster for a couple years now.

If we run a top 6 next year of:

Rust - Sid - Rak/Geno
Bunting - Rak/Geno - Marner/Rantanen

That should be a playoff worthly top 6. Defense as is:

POJ - Letang
Pickering - Karlsson
Graves - Desharnais

Graves is a sunk cost. Not worth the assets to get rid of the contract, find someone who can play with him on the bottom pair instead. Desharnais is a 6/7th guy, fine as is. We got the cap space to muck around with things. Lets use it. Chychrun would be my #1 target if he hits UFA. Nate Schmidt or Provorov if the price is right. We have the cap space, time for Dubas to go big game hunting.
 
Pancakes said:
I don't know that it's Dubas philosophy so much as that guys with term just don't often get traded at the deadline. Teams have traditionally preferred cap flexibility and don't want guys with term.

Maybe that will change with the news about the cap going up
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Yup. The Kessel and Kadri deals were done at the draft or free agency opening. Teams don't have the cap space, traditionally, to do more than the expiring contract deals at the deadline.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
Successful season if they manage to trade Rakell and Gryz for profit at the TDL imo. Not pretty, not fun, but what needs to be done. Gotta strike while the iron's hot with Rakell imo, nearing a must move territory. Teams are always looking for depth scoring for a playoff push and between his season and his style, somebody will give up a good return.
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Gryz can go for value, that's fine. I also won't hate if Dubas resigns him in FA.

Rakell should only go out if there is a deal that makes sense. He is absolutely NOT in "must move" category. I don't think the difference between TDL Rakell and next year Rakell is all that much to the extent that Dubas MUST move him. Yes, there's always the chance that Rakell regresses but that's a risk with every player. If he gets time next to Sid again, he's going to perform at a similar level I believe. So we might only be talking about minor differences in trade value.

I wouldn't dump him for what we paid for him. If it's a Moore + 1st deal where we can move Moore as well next year or the year after, great. I'd be for that. Or if it's for a quality young player, like if Dallas didn't get Granlund, getting Bourque + 2nd or something like that would be worth it.

I believe even Yohe was commenting about Rakell is in the "Every GM has a price" category meaning he won't be dumped for beans. With our current lineup and cap next year, there's just so little reason to rush moving him.
Pancakes said:
I don't know that it's Dubas philosophy so much as that guys with term just don't often get traded at the deadline. Teams have traditionally preferred cap flexibility and don't want guys with term.

Maybe that will change with the news about the cap going up
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I think that will change a bit this TDL and off-season. With the cap going up that much and FA being weak, you'll see a lot more teams trading for value contracts.
 
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Pens miss playoffs and now dubas can move contracts like Karlsson, and Rust with his NMC gone. Dubas will offer a RFA with the Pens picks and Rakell is just too good to move unless Dubas gets an incredible offer.
I sign Glass as RG center and Pens have to move Hayes or Heinen. Assuming a retention of 3 million on Karlsson, Pens still have Jarry left for 3 years and Graves. Lots to do this off season.
 
Gurglesons said:
Dubas wasn't GM for the Kessel trade.

Hope we don't do a Kadri trade lol.

View attachment 975245
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He was interim GM, with Mark Hunter also involved, with Shanahan overseeing them.

As for the vacant general manager position -- assistant Kyle Dubas is handling those duties for the time being -- Shanahan is still looking.

"The search is still ongoing," he said.

www.espn.com

Maple Leafs getting strong trade interest in Phil Kessel

Phil Kessel may be the most enticing piece of trade bait, and Leafs president Brendan Shanahan confirmed he has attracted significant interest.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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In the weeks leading up to that draft, Rutherford had kept to himself the details of a potential deal with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Working with Maple Leafs president Brendan Shanahan and then assistant GM Kyle Dubas, Rutherford had opened talks aimed at bringing Phil Kessel to the Penguins.

“We had kept a lid on it in the weeks leading up to the draft, but once we got down (to Florida), I guess the cat was out of the bag,” Rutherford said. “I didn’t mind that people knew we wanted Phil because by that point we were far enough along in the talks with Toronto and I felt like we could get a deal done.”

With practically the entire hockey community in Florida for the draft, Rutherford, Shanahan and Dubas kept talking about the parameters of a trade. Rutherford wanted to make the move in the offseason so that Kessel had time to acclimate himself to the Penguins and Pittsburgh.

www.nytimes.com

Chasing Phil Kessel: A new GM, a draft-floor debate and the Penguins’ missing piece

It was a trade that sparked a heated draft-floor debate between a new GM and his inherited lieutenants. It led to two Stanley Cups.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Assistant general manager Dubas likes stockpiling picks but said that Kapanen, a smooth-skating 18-year-old winger who was a 2014 first-rounder, was the key.

"If Kapanen wasn't in the deal, I don't think we'd be standing here," Dubas said "He's a highly-skilled guy with excellent feet. ... He's a player with a lot of potential."

www.ctvnews.ca

Maple Leafs trade Phil Kessel to Penguins for picks, prospects

The Toronto Maple Leafs completed a blockbuster trade to send star winger Phil Kessel to the Pittsburgh Penguins.
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca
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chethejet said:
Pens miss playoffs and now dubas can move contracts like Karlsson, and Rust with his NMC gone. Dubas will offer a RFA with the Pens picks and Rakell is just too good to move unless Dubas gets an incredible offer.
I sign Glass as RG center and Pens have to move Hayes or Heinen. Assuming a retention of 3 million on Karlsson, Pens still have Jarry left for 3 years and Graves. Lots to do this off season.
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Too good to move? Getting more standings points shouldn't be an objective for several years, until they're ready.
Ofc you move Rakell during an outlier year and get his deal off the books, while you can.
Then you use the cap space he leaves behind to get more futures.

The only reason to keep Rakell is to keep Sid happy, and that's just poor management.
Sid's feelings are not gonna get us a 6th Cup. We need draft picks.
 
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