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Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

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Big Friggin Dummy said:
You'd be selling high on Rakell if you moved him this season. Nobody's value is gonna be higher in the future than it is now. /shrug

This team's just gonna keep getting worse, but they're still not in the absolutely dreadful category. That's the goal by moving guys who have any value. Much, much more important to chase the top picks in the next few drafts than to hang on to guys in hopes that a 2nd can turn into a late 1st imo.

None of these guys are worth hanging on to in the hope that you can eek out a tiny bit more value later. None of these players we're talking about trading are worth keeping around in mentor roles, or in the hope that they can be supporting cast depth for the next chapter of competing--they'll all have aged out by then. Pales in comparison to the importance of chasing top picks and trying to make the post-Sid misery as short and painless as possible.

I dunno. I'm sick of all the half efforts. It's been abundantly clear for years that this team's chosen the wrong approach with just about everything they've been faced with. Hanging on to the Buntings, Rusts, Rakells, EKs, etc. is just another mistake to me for several reasons.

I say all this knowing full well the team's not just gonna rip it down to studs and bolts. Which is probably why I'm so annoyed/disgusted tbh. :laugh:
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Yes that's why I'm for trading Rakell but probably wouldn't bother trading Karlsson or Rust right now. Karlsson especially is a guy I think has the upside to really increase his value.

They need to prioritize asset management and getting the most value they can for their players. If they can't get good returns for guys right now, they shouldn't trade them just for the sake of becoming dreadful.
 
Khelandros said:
Don't know if you've been watching the games this year but,
View attachment 973403
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Cool. Time on ice? Powerplay time?

Hayes is better than both if he has the same usage. This is like a Dom Simon argument.

Empoleon8771 said:
Yes that's why I'm for trading Rakell but probably wouldn't bother trading Karlsson or Rust right now. Karlsson especially is a guy I think has the upside to really increase his value.
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I agree but for different reasons.

On a different Pens team Karlsson is better. Unless the return is solid I'm keeping him regardless.

Rakell is priority 1. Rust only if he has internally stated teams he'd be willing to go to AND those teams pony up a 1st. Otherwise let the bidding commence this Summer.
 
molon labe said:
Cool. Time on ice? Powerplay time?

Hayes is better than both if he has the same usage. This is like a Dom Simon argument.



I agree but for different reasons.

On a different Pens team Karlsson is better. Unless the return is solid I'm keeping him regardless.

Rakell is priority 1. Rust only if he has internally stated teams he'd be willing to go to AND those teams pony up a 1st. Otherwise let the bidding commence this Summer.
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I don't even mean trade them now vs trade them in the summer, I just mean in general. If you're not getting a good return for guys like Rust or Karlsson, you just don't trade them yet. Karlsson is a guy that I especially think can raise his value by having a monster half season.

Trading Rakell right now makes sense because they'd be selling high and his value will likely never be higher than it is now. But for the other guys, if you're not getting good returns for them, why trade them?
 
HandshakeLine said:
Why keep them?

I mean, in all honesty, what is the advantage to us to have them and not, say, the cap space to take on bad contracts for additional assets?
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They have plenty of cap space to both keep them and take on bad contracts for additional assets.

Not only that, but I have a feeling that teams won't be paying a ton of assets to get out of bad deals in the near future with the rising cap.
 
I don't think it's a lock but there's a very real chance that Rangers team is as bad or worse next season. /shrug

Igor's gonna be taking up $11.5M against the cap. Guys like Trocheck, Panarin, Kreider, Zibanejad and JT Miller are all north of 30.

Empoleon8771 said:
Yes that's why I'm for trading Rakell but probably wouldn't bother trading Karlsson or Rust right now. Karlsson especially is a guy I think has the upside to really increase his value.

They need to prioritize asset management and getting the most value they can for their players. If they can't get good returns for guys right now, they shouldn't trade them just for the sake of becoming dreadful.
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EK and Rust are both off season moves. EK because it's easier to plot out a course where he fits into a team's cap structure in the off season, and Rust because his NTC drops July 1st and I think you'd have a good shot at fleecing some team that's desperate since they missed out on a big name in FA.

Nah, disagree. The goal is to be real bad for the next few years and hope you luck into building block, franchise picks. I'm not saying dump them for future considerations, but this team should be aggressively working the phones in an attempt to offload any tradeable assets. Again, nobody's value's gonna increase here. We're talking about guys no longer in their prime, and guys like Rust who constantly seem to be battling injury, is gonna be 33 next season. EK's gonna be 35 by the time next season starts. Rakell 32. etc

It's perfectly Penguins-esque if they hang on to guys that'll only get worse and drop in value in a vain attempt to try and get a few more pennies out of whatever the trades ultimately end up being. /shrug
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
They have plenty of cap space to both keep them and take on bad contracts for additional assets.

Not only that, but I have a feeling that teams won't be paying a ton of assets to get out of bad deals in the near future with the rising cap.
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Cool, so why keep players that could garner assets for the rebuild when we are not competing again?

I am getting flashbacks to my hoarder great aunt who refused to throw anything away because "someday it'll be worth money!"
 
Like Kris Letang, for instance.

Empoleon8771 said:
Yes it is? Someone like Karlsson could absolutely pop off and have a crazy half season to increase his value.
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And he could also crumble and we are stuck with a 35+ player taking up 10 million of cap space that we could have gotten an asset for.

Emp, remember when you predicted that Letang would look great until the end of his contract?
 
HandshakeLine said:
Like Kris Letang, for instance.


And he could also crumble and we are stuck with a 35+ player taking up 10 million of cap space that we could have gotten an asset for.
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And one of those is far more likely than the other one, and I'm willing to bet it's not this scenario.

HandshakeLine said:
Emp, remember when you predicted that Letang would look great until the end of his contract?
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No I didn't? I said the term was a ton at the time of the deal, but the AAV was great.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Because they could have more value by holding onto them and giving them a chance to have a Rakell type of breakout season.

It's all about asset management.
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I mean, I get it. I do. But we're talking about guys north of 30 here, on a team that's already really bad, but could use every bit of help in competing with teams that are genuinely dreadful in chasing top picks in the next few years.

I just think the odds of guys falling off and lowering their value is way higher than increasing it, and the potential increase is minimal as hell to the point where the correct avenue is to just be working the phones constantly and moving them the moment a deal comes up that makes any sense. /shrug
 
Big Friggin Dummy said:
I mean, I get it. I do. But we're talking about guys north of 30 here, on a team that's already really bad, but could use every bit of help in competing with teams that are genuinely dreadful in chasing top picks in the next few years.

I just think the odds of guys falling off and lowering their value is way higher than increasing it, and the potential increase is minimal as hell to the point where the correct avenue is to just be working the phones constantly and moving them the moment a deal comes up that makes any sense. /shrug
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With Rust I can see this, he is what he is. I just do not agree with Karlsson, the dude put up a 100 point Norris season 2 years ago. Him even just running up half a season at a PPG would very likely increase interest in him around the league.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
With Rust I can see this, he is what he is. I just do not agree with Karlsson, the dude put up a 100 point Norris season 2 years ago. Him even just running up half a season at a PPG would very likely increase interest in him around the league.
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Yeah, he was a 100pt Norris winner and then he came here and now he's a 50-55pt, 35 year old.

His value's not gonna jump man. :laugh: Just move him this summer and be done with it imo.
 
Big Friggin Dummy said:
Yeah, he was a 100pt Norris winner and then he came here and now he's a 50-55pt, 35 year old.

His value's not gonna jump man. :laugh: Just move him this summer and be done with it imo.
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Yeah, like let's be honest, unless you get a whole different coach and team, you're really not going to have a breakout season from EK65, even without physical decline.
 
Depends on return for EK. Does holding onto his cap hit really matter with where this team is at?

If all you can get is a Fernstrom type prospect and a 3rd.. dont really care if they deal him or not. If you can get something worthwhile then hell yeah ship him out.

However- they need to deal at least 2 of Rakell, Bunting, Rust, EK by start of next year IMO. This team simply does not have a lot of trade chips and I agree with the idea that you can’t risk age/performance dropping off for the few you do have.
 
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I think Dubas actually has the team, oddly, in a decent spot right now (some of it his own doing, others just the mere confluence of events in the league). There's no rush to trade any player like Rakell, Bunting, Rust, or Karlsson. With the Penguins not being great, having a bit of cap room, looking to young assets/draft picks, and being on the fence about whether to compete or not, they have the luxury of being able to take a wide variety of calls and discuss a wide variety of deals.

He could literally take a call on any of them and if it doesn't blow his socks off, he can justify saying no. Who would really blame him if he said "he got some offers on Rakell but nothing moved the needle for us so we are going to keep him so he can help Sid". As much as I want assets, I wouldn't be mad at that. I would understand that.

With the cap going up, suddenly there are some Penguin contracts that are a lot more attractive. Bunting at 4.5 and Rakell at 5mil for several years are much more attractive than what you have now pay in FA.

I imagine one of those guys would only move if there is holy smokes, no brainer deal in place. Otherwise, it's the offseason. Can't see EK being moved in season.
 
My big caution about waiting is how many times this team has ridden out contracts that we could have moved and/or resigned guys we shouldn't. Again, newish GM but this has happened under MULTIPLE GM's during the Sid era.

Like every year people say "we'll hold on to X and trade him at the deadline" and then our single deadline move is Granlund. :laugh:

But the idea that another season of Mike Sullivan hockey is going to improve players' values is pretty wild to me.
 
molon labe said:
Cool. Time on ice? Powerplay time?

Hayes is better than both if he has the same usage. This is like a Dom Simon argument.
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He did. Played with both Crosby and Malkin, didn't produce and found himself in the bottom 6, where he continued to not produce.
 
FWIW, I don't think this team's getting a haul for anybody. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be moved though. EK's value has plummeted since coming here and plodding around in this team's system. Rust has a nice resume and all that but he's gonna be 33 and has injury woes. Rakell's a middle-6 guy, same with Bunting. Out of all of those guys, you may have two 1st rounders. Maaaaybe, and that's if you find a team desperate for Rust after the dust settles on July 1st, and you find a team desperate for a transition/offensive d-man like EK (and retain 50%).

But you take what you can get, when you can get it, and move on. Keeping them is asinine imo.
 
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