Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[HandshakeLine]

There is no quick return to contention: that's the reason we're in this mess. We don't have a foundation to contend with. If we did, then sure, holding on to Rackell or whoever makes some sense. But we don't and the pieces we do have make no sense with what the team is trying to do. EK65 shouldn't even be here, even if we were contending, since Sullivan doesn't want to use him in a way that is actually useful.

I still maintain that if we had one or two young (I don't mean 27+ here) pieces to build around, you could hope for a quick turn around, but we do not have those pieces yet. So in order to actually do something worthwhile, we need to find a way to get those. Otherwise, we're just swindling ourselves.

But lastly, even if we started the rebuild now, if properly done, we shouldn't be waiting 10 years to make it to the playoffs. That's simply ridiculous.

I mean, let's be honest, we're essentially throwing everything at the wall just to prop Sid up as a PPG player, we don't have anywhere near enough talent to realistically build around.

 

[cygnus47]

For me it just depends on the return. I'm not getting rid of him just to do it. There's no point in that.

As above it's really just about the return for me. I'm not in favor of just nuking the entire roster for scraps. If Rakell brings back good assets then great, move him. If he doesn't, there's really no point in getting rid of him just to do it.

Same thing with Karlsson.

That's assuming the goal is "contend again asap". If Dubas pivots from that to "f*** all of this" then sure trade everyone for whatever . But I'm assuming as long as Sid is still here that the goal is a quick return to contention and not a 10 year plan.

IMO Dubas is just toeing the company line to keep gate revenue up. The second we admit we’re tanking no one will watch the games for a good couple years. We’ll be back to student rush to get up to 50% attendance and FSG will get all huffy about it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You work to move anybody with any value to A. make the team as bad as possible to chase legit franchise pillars like McKenna and Dupont, B. accrue as much draft capital and young players as possible, and C. free up cap to take on bad contracts for even more assets. The goal is to be as bad as possible over the next few years to try and hit it big in the draft.

Like HSL said; there's no easy way out of this. There's no cutting corners. This team's just gonna have to rely on smart moves, drafting, development, and of course a buncha luck.

And, as always, fire Sullivan. The guy cannot be around to influence draft picks or be responsible for molding the game of the next crop of foundational prospects. I hope that when the team parts ways, they don't do the dumbest shit and keep him around as the GM. Genuinely worried about that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And for clarity, I think you don’t need a Sid/Geno generational caliber guy to build around, either. But if you don’t have that guy, the quality of the supporting cast and coaching needs to be higher which requires much better management and vision from the front office than we’ve seen.

It’s not impossible by any means but it’s not easy and I remain thus far unconvinced that Dubas can make those moves. But I hope I’m wrong.

 

[deakka]

One more player to watch in the four nations. Rakell ia replacing W.Karlsson.

Avslöjar: Rakell uttagen till Four Nations

William Karlsson har lämnat återbud till Four Nations. Rickard Rakell, som är i bra form, ersätter.

www.aftonbladet.se

 

[chethejet]

pens can move into a good position this year picking top 8. Then the lottery Gods give them some love. In any event, Dubas knows the transition is now in full mode and keeping the roster in playing more and more younger talent as they are ready will happen after the TDL. Correct Pens can take on a contract and get a number 1 as well. Move Rust, Karlsson and down the road Jarry as his cap hit will not be as large with cap going up.

 

[eXile3]

Red Wings in playoff contention after firing their coach. Is that allowed? Because it seems really effective.

 

[Andy99]

Red Wings in playoff contention after firing their coach. Is that allowed? Because it seems really effective.

Well they didn’t have a top 2-3 coach in the league…

 

[chethejet]

Does it matter if Dubas is now in charge of the roster and is giving sullivan the players he wants to get playing for the development. I agree Sullivan is not the coach for the next phase but FSG was stupid to give him that extension. Like another franchise in Pittsburgh.

 

[Gurglesons]

One more player to watch in the four nations. Rakell ia replacing W.Karlsson.

Avslöjar: Rakell uttagen till Four Nations

William Karlsson har lämnat återbud till Four Nations. Rickard Rakell, som är i bra form, ersätter.

www.aftonbladet.se

Hopefully he has a great tournament and pumps his value.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I felt like at the start of this, Dubas was bringing in sully types to try and appease him. But it hasn’t worked. If we don’t go on a big run and miss the playoffs again, I think he’s fired. Wishful thinking, I know, but almost every FA signing has been a sully guy.

And honestly, we have 2 years of Sid left. We’ll be doing this half in half out thing for the next two seasons and then tear everything apart. It also lines up with the draft capital we’ve been acquiring. And I’m ok with that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This isn't a pro-Sullivan argument, but firing Sullivan for not making the playoffs when Dubas' moves since the last trade deadline were:

-Trade Guentzel for futures
-Trade Smith for futures
-Sign Lizotte, Grzelcyk and Beauvillier in free agency
-Get paid futures to take on Hayes
-Get paid futures to take on Glass
-Trade Eller for futures
-Trade Pettersson and O'Connor for futures

Seems to not be very fair towards Sullivan. He should be fired at this point, but him getting fired for not making the playoffs this year doesn't seem really fair with the roster that Dubas has given him.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't care about being "fair" to Mike Fifty Shades of Beige Sullivan.

 

[SEALBound]

There is no quick return to contention: that's the reason we're in this mess. We don't have a foundation to contend with. If we did, then sure, holding on to Rackell or whoever makes some sense. But we don't and the pieces we do have make no sense with what the team is trying to do. EK65 shouldn't even be here, even if we were contending, since Sullivan doesn't want to use him in a way that is actually useful.

I still maintain that if we had one or two young (I don't mean 27+ here) pieces to build around, you could hope for a quick turn around, but we do not have those pieces yet. So in order to actually do something worthwhile, we need to find a way to get those. Otherwise, we're just swindling ourselves.

But lastly, even if we started the rebuild now, if properly done, we shouldn't be waiting 10 years to make it to the playoffs. That's simply ridiculous.

I mean, let's be honest, we're essentially throwing everything at the wall just to prop Sid up as a PPG player, we don't have anywhere near enough talent to realistically build around.

Agreed. Fact is...we aren't getting back to contention. I think the hidden goal for Dubas is "how do we make it look like we are competing so that Sid will stay and retire here?". That's the elephant in the room because, as has been said before, no signing or trade is going to make Sid and Geno 25 again.

Looking back, unless we have the crystal ball and get lucky in the draft, there's no 1st round pick in and around where we've picked in the last 10 years that makes me think "if only" we'd be in a difference spot than we are now. It's just what happens when you spend the better part of two decades in the latter half of the draft rounds.

A top 5 pick this year, a top 5 pick next year, and an extra 1st round pick should help once Sid and Geno retire and we fall off a cliff.

As much as I want Sid to retire here, if we get a top 3 pick this year and he wants to bolt...I might actually be okay trading him to the Avs if it means Dubas is willing to strip it down and tank for McKenna and/or DuPont.

 

[pistolpete11]

This isn't a pro-Sullivan argument, but firing Sullivan for not making the playoffs when Dubas' moves since the last trade deadline were:

-Trade Guentzel for futures
-Trade Smith for futures
-Sign Lizotte, Grzelcyk and Beauvillier in free agency
-Get paid futures to take on Hayes
-Get paid futures to take on Glass
-Trade Eller for futures
-Trade Pettersson and O'Connor for futures

Seems to not be very fair towards Sullivan. He should be fired at this point, but him getting fired for not making the playoffs this year doesn't seem really fair with the roster that Dubas has given him.

They are rebuilding because they haven't won a playoff series for the better part of a decade which is largely due to Sullivan. He has nobody to blame but himself.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They are rebuilding because they haven't won a playoff series for the better part of a decade which is largely due to Sullivan. He has nobody to blame but himself.

"He should be fired at this point, but him getting fired for not making the playoffs this year doesn't seem really fair with the roster that Dubas has given him."

 

[pistolpete11]

"He should be fired at this point, but him getting fired for not making the playoffs this year doesn't seem really fair with the roster that Dubas has given him."

It is fair because he has contributed to them being in this position...probably more than any other individual.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I forgot that this place does not allow literally any nuance in a discussion about Sullivan, so I'm going to tap out and not waste my time in this debate.

 

[SEALBound]

It's fair to suggest that them not making the playoffs this year is not 100% on Sullivan but I still think he burdens a larger part of the blame, but that's also holdover from several years past.

If they WANT to compete, I don't see any way they do so under Sullivan. If they want any legit hope, it has to come through a new coach.

And if they get a couple major picks like Misa, McKenna, DuPont - I think Sullivan needs to be the first one out the door. You can contaminate the new crop with Sullivan. You just can't. Moving forward with a new core means moving on from Sullivan just as much it does from Sid and Geno. There needs to be a complete turnover.

 

[Gurglesons]

They should fire Sullivan because he doesn’t utilize youth. Look at Blomqvist.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They should fire Sullivan because he doesn’t utilize youth. Look at Blomqvist.

Yeah my point with the "that's not fair towards Sullivan" is that I feel the team Dubas gave Sullivan is nowhere even close to playoff caliber, so I have a hard time saying "he should be fired for not making the playoffs". Give this team Scotty Bowman as coach and they're still nowhere even close to a playoff team, the roster is trash beyond L1.

He should be fired for a myriad of other reasons, I just didn't agree with that one argument. The largest one being how he handles young players, I don't want to let him meddle with guys like Misa and McKenna if they pull them off.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I forgot that this place does not allow literally any nuance in a discussion about Sullivan, so I'm going to tap out and not waste my time in this debate.

Emp, there is a thing called "distinction without difference."

 

[molon labe]

Going forward I'd like to see:

- Continued size on the blueline [granted I've said that for years].
- Playmaking > speed in the forward group

Shift our playstyle completely. With the lack of superstar goaltending out there, I think this approach is the best approach. This works both if we continue to sell in favor of picks OR go - in on someone like Rantenen/Marner whomever with the rising cap. Even just NEXT year the extra ~7M is going to do WONDERS for a team like ours. Just don't spend it on 9 different Noel Acciari's in the bottom 6 again. This team needs to build top 6 down for the first time in a long time...in the worst way.

Also, for those looking to shop our assets: EK, Rust, Rakell - all three contracts are totally palatable looking forward. That aggressive rising cap should make GMs super risk-adverse to EK (though his recent play would have me missing him if we move him) and make deals like Rakell and Rust steals going forward.

 

[eXile3]

This isn't a pro-Sullivan argument, but firing Sullivan for not making the playoffs when Dubas' moves since the last trade deadline were:

-Trade Guentzel for futures
-Trade Smith for futures
-Sign Lizotte, Grzelcyk and Beauvillier in free agency
-Get paid futures to take on Hayes
-Get paid futures to take on Glass
-Trade Eller for futures
-Trade Pettersson and O'Connor for futures

Seems to not be very fair towards Sullivan. He should be fired at this point, but him getting fired for not making the playoffs this year doesn't seem really fair with the roster that Dubas has given him.

Right but that doesn’t explain the last several years when the roster underperformed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Right but that doesn’t explain the last several years when the roster underperformed.

Yeah he should have been fired for those several years, and he should be fired now because he's not a good coach for a rebuilding team looking to add young talent.