Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[Gurglesons]

I don't see how there's a comparable there. Rakell's basically producing as much as Farabee and Frost combined, and its not like either of them are on bargain contracts.

Because I imagine most GMs just don’t view 4 years of term through a lens of one year.

Farabee and Frost were previously viewed as a pieces in the Flyers core. They both have shown productive offense in the NHL and are both sub 25.

I just don’t see a reality where we are getting many futures for Rakell without retention. And I also would be worried about Rakell falling off a cliff.

I don't see why this is complicated. If Rakell is being traded, they'll get a multi-year contract back (someone like Hartman from the Wild) and get futures on top of that. If they would need to retain money to move Rakell, they'll just keep him and let him keep playing with Crosby.

If Rakell's term/age is a dealbreaker for moving him without retention, just trade Bunting (who would be much easier to move if term/age is a problem) and keep Rakell. Go with a top-6 of McGroarty-Crosby-Rakell and Koivunen-Malkin-Rust for next year.

Based on the reaction for this deal in the trade forum. No they won’t lol.

 

[IcedCapp]

i have legit never understood this boards opinions on Rakell. He's a good player. I will never understand why people act like he's a radioactive bum. Like he's the Rob Scuderi of wingers or something

 

[Empoleon8771]

Based on the reaction for this deal in the trade forum. No they won’t lol.

That's because HFBoards fans fetishize prospects and aren't reflective of reality. No NHL team in the Wild's situation goes like "we don't have a window, so I don't want to spend assets to get better" like Wild fans were saying in that thread.

 

[Gurglesons]

i have legit never understood this boards opinions on Rakell. He's a good player. I will never understand why people act like he's a radioactive bum. Like he's the Rob Scuderi of wingers or something

Because he’s 32 and had 3 years left at 5 million. Has nothing to do with him largely being an effective player. Just that his contract will handicap his return especially given the fact he has trade protection.

That's because HFBoards fans fetishize prospects and aren't reflective of reality. No NHL team in the Wild's situation goes like "we don't have a window, so I don't want to spend assets to get better" like Wild fans were saying in that thread.

I think it’s more PIT fans think Rakell is doing something, when reality is he is just doing what Granlund is doing on the Sharks. He’s a decent player on a really bad team getting all the offensive minutes while playing with Sidney Crosby.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because he’s 32 and had 3 years left at 5 million. Has nothing to do with him largely being an effective player. Just that his contract will handicap his return especially given the fact he has trade protection.



I think it’s more PIT fans think Rakell is doing something, when reality is he is just doing what Granlund is doing on the Sharks. He’s a decent player on a really bad team getting all the offensive minutes while playing with Sidney Crosby.

And Granlund is likely bringing back a 1st as a rental this year.

Again, if Rakell's contract is such a detriment for his value, you just don't trade him. Trade Bunting instead and just keep Rakell with Crosby.

 

[Gurglesons]

And Granlund is likely bringing back a 1st as a rental this year.

Again, if Rakell's contract is such a detriment for his value, you just don't trade him. Trade Bunting instead and just keep Rakell with Crosby.

What makes you think Bunting has any value either?

Also if Granlund returns a 1st, I’ll eat a sock.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What makes you think Bunting has any value either?

Also if Granlund returns a 1st, I’ll eat a sock.

Because he's 29, only has 1 more year at $4.5 million after this year and is a reliable 45-50 point middle-6 winger.

Mangiapane was in a very similar spot last off-season. He was 28 with 1 year left at $5.8 million and had 40 points in 75 games last year. He was traded for a 2nd straight up.

 

[Darren McCord]

So Farabee and Frost returned a 2nd, a cap dump in Kuzmenko, and a 7th.

People still think we getting a 2nd for Rakell unretained?



How?

Three extra years of a lost retention spot and Rakell at 2.5 mill is a steal. Especially with the cap going to jump.

If Rakell repeats this season even for one more. Tampa is getting a 30 goal scorer for 2% of the cap. That first could end up 32nd overall and then a super late second. That's an absolute steal for Tampa.

The pens also take on Sheary who you know Sullivan will put with Sid and block a young player for. I just don't want Sheary near the team for that temptation alone.

Rakell at that cheap should get more than that and no cap dumps.

 

[Gurglesons]

Three extra years of a lost retention spot and Rakell at 2.5 mill is a steal. Especially with the cap going to jump.

If Rakell repeats this season even for one more. Tampa is getting a 30 goal scorer for 2% of the cap. That first could end up 32nd overall and then a super late second. That's an absolute steal for Tampa.

The pens also take on Sheary who you know Sullivan will put with Sid and block a young player for. I just don't want Sheary near the team for that temptation alone.

Rakell at that cheap should get more than that and no cap dumps.

More than a 1st and a 2nd?

 

[Gurglesons]

Because he's 29, only has 1 more year at $4.5 million after this year and is a reliable 45-50 point middle-6 winger.

Mangiapane was in a very similar spot last off-season. He was 28 with 1 year left at $5.8 million and had 40 points in 75 games last year. He was traded for a 2nd straight up.

I don’t know about Mangiapane and Bunting having the same value. But, would be cool if someone gave us anything for Bunting tbh.

 

[Ulf5]

Because I imagine most GMs just don’t view 4 years of term through a lens of one year.

Farabee and Frost were previously viewed as a pieces in the Flyers core. They both have shown productive offense in the NHL and are both sub 25.

I just don’t see a reality where we are getting many futures for Rakell without retention. And I also would be worried about Rakell falling off a cliff.



Based on the reaction for this deal in the trade forum. No they won’t lol.

A- Kuzmenko has the highest career goals per game, assists per game and points per game of the bunch.
B- Kuzmenko apparently has played with Michkov in Russia. Trying to ignite the rookie.
C- possibly a good gamble, IF torts gets the axe.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Good lord that's a lot of cap space. Increasing by $9.5 million every off-season

This is also why I find it silly to act like Rakell's contract is detrimental. In 2 years, Rakell caliber players will be making $8 million simply because of how crazy high the cap will be.

 

[Darren McCord]

More than a 1st and a 2nd?

Ya. What would be the value of pretty much a 2nd and 3rd. Tampa would be stacked. Imagine paying 500k to go from Sheary to Rakell.

Sheary is a cap dump. They should be paying to get rid of him.

I don't get this idea that Rakell will be an anchor. He will be 34 the last year of his deal not 38.

Also with the cap going up the contracts handed out this summer will be insane. His deal would look like a steal at 2.5 x 3. If the cap is 113 mil the last year of his deal it will be pennies/

 

[Gurglesons]

Ya. What would be the value of pretty much a 2nd and 3rd. Tampa would be stacked. Imagine paying 500k to go from Sheary to Rakell.

Sheary is a cap dump. They should be paying to get rid of him.

I don't get this idea that Rakell will be an anchor. He will be 34 the last year of his deal not 38.

Also with the cap going up the contracts handed out this summer will be insane. His deal would look like a steal at 2.5 x 3.

Tampa is barely hanging onto the 8th spot in the playoffs.

Good lord that's a lot of cap space. Increasing by $9.5 million every off-season

This is also why I find it silly to act like Rakell's contract is detrimental. In 2 years, Rakell caliber players will be making $8 million simply because of how crazy high the cap will be.

We are going to see a lot of teams not be cap teams.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That massively rising cap makes me also think that they can likely trade Karlsson without needing to retain much, if at all. $10 million is going to be the new $7 million really soon.

 

[Gurglesons]

A- Kuzmenko has the highest career goals per game, assists per game and points per game of the bunch.
B- Kuzmenko apparently has played with Michkov in Russia. Trying to ignite the rookie.
C- possibly a good gamble, IF torts gets the axe.

Kuzmenko succeeding under Torts would be the 10th wonder of the world.

That massively rising cap makes me also think that they can likely trade Karlsson without needing to retain much, if at all. $10 million is going to be the new $7 million really soon.

See above. Assuming the majority of markets will spend to the cap with it exploding the way it is, is foolish.

PIT is about to be closer to the bottom of the cap than the top for the inevitable future.

 

[Darren McCord]

Tampa is barely hanging onto the 8th spot in the playoffs.

That is not true. Tampa is 6 pts behind the number 1 team in the atlantic with 2 games and hand. You might as well say Ottawa and Toronto are barely hanging on as well if you think that.

Again you give them a guy on pace for 30 goals for 500k and you think they wouldn't get an incredible boost?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kuzmenko succeeding under Torts would be the 10th wonder of the world.



See above. Assuming the majority of markets will spend to the cap with it exploding the way it is, is foolish.

PIT is about to be closer to the bottom of the cap than the top for the inevitable future.

Karlsson makes notably less money than his AAV. His contract is going to be useful as a $7.5 million salary but $10 million AAV.

 

[IcedCapp]

cap rising this much probably reduces some of our bargaining power in-so-much that retention on longer term deals might not be worth as much as it normally would be

 

[Mr. T]

if Granlund returns a 1st, I’ll eat a sock.

Has to be the special one next to your laptop.

 

[Gurglesons]

Karlsson makes notably less money than his AAV. His contract is going to be useful as a $7.5 million salary but $10 million AAV.

I really think y’all are really inflating the value of a bunch of 32-35 year olds.

But I guess you do you.

That is not true. Tampa is 6 pts behind the number 1 team in the atlantic with 2 games and hand. You might as well say Ottawa and Toronto are barely hanging on as well if you think that.

Again you give them a guy on pace for 30 goals for 500k and you think they wouldn't get an incredible boost?

Maybe. I don’t really care. I want 1st round picks. If we can get one, I’ll do whatever. That’s the build of the team right now.

 

[Khelandros]

A- Kuzmenko has the highest career goals per game, assists per game and points per game of the bunch.
B- Kuzmenko apparently has played with Michkov in Russia. Trying to ignite the rookie.
C- possibly a good gamble, IF torts gets the axe.

Okay, sure. But what about the rest of these guys? Is he going to ignite them as well?

 

[Pancakes]

cap rising this much probably reduces some of our bargaining power in-so-much that retention on longer term deals might not be worth as much as it normally would be

Imo it was never a certain thing that Dubas was going to weaponize retention anyways. He's been pretty on the record about despising buyouts.

He's used it in smaller deals but I don't know if using a lot of retention on say Karlsson or Rakell was ever going to be on the table anyways.

 

[Darren McCord]

I really think y’all are really inflating the value of a bunch of 32-35 year olds.

But I guess you do you.



Maybe. I don’t really care. I want 1st round picks. If we can get one, I’ll do whatever. That’s the build of the team right now.

I am not saying no to first rounders. I am saying that deal should draw a prospect or something more.

Rakell is 13th in the league in EVS goals this year. He can go to a team and not rely on PP time to put up points. That is a big deal for contenders.

I just think you are underselling his value. A team would get at least 3 solid playoff runs (31,32,33) while paying him peanuts.

 

[IcedCapp]

Imo it was never a certain thing that Dubas was going to weaponize retention anyways. He's been pretty on the record about despising buyouts.

He's used it in smaller deals but I don't know if using a lot of retention on say Karlsson or Rakell was ever going to be on the table anyways.

i don't see the need to retain on Rakell, but I'm assuming they're gonna move EK out, given the state of the team, and with retention, I was expecting a decent return. But you're right, if we're not going to use retention, it doesn't really impact us.