Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[Gurglesons]

If you'd frame it like this rather than saying things like "he traded a 3rd to get out of McGinn's deal and got Kulikov back" and "he didn't trade a 1st" were positives for Hextall, we might believe you with that.

I'm fully willing to say that Hextall did a bad job and Dubas has done a bad job for the Penguins. You seem intent on saying Dubas sucked while trying to grasp at moves to justify why Hextall was better than Dubas.

For a team focused on competing like us but retooling 1sts should only be moved for younger impact forwards that you can recycle into additional picks in my eyes.

That’s why I give Hextall marks for understanding a 1st was more valuable than a Miller or Chychrun add.

Dubas moving a first and letting the team flatline was incredibly bad.

If you cannot understand that, then it’s not worth discussing anymore.

Dubas is getting props for me via Jarry.

 

[Khelandros]

As @Empoleon8771 stated the Rakell trade was good and some of his picks look good.

The Carter trade I would also say was good. Extending him was not.

The one does not outweigh all the bad.

History of hockey trades by general manager Ron Hextall - NHL Trade Tracker

 

[Turin]

The discourse about Hextall's pros and cons are moot because his 2022 offseason then 2023 season was so indefensible.

 

[Turin]

Man Vancouver is gonna wait so long to pull the trigger on MP they'll actually just be sellers and change their mind. They stink!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The discourse about Hextall's pros and cons are moot because his 2022 offseason then 2023 season was so indefensible.

There's this weird desire to be like "yeah Hextall sucked shit, but..." There's no need for the but. Just like there's no need to dig further than "yeah Dubas has sucked shit." Hextall was dogshit. Dubas has been dogshit so far. /shrug

Just accept it and hope by some miracle Dubas actually manages so navigate the post-Sid era well, cuz he sure as shit isn't navigating the end of the era well by continuing to pick this middle of the road, noncommittal, cowardly bullshit strategy.

 

[Gurglesons]

The one does not outweigh all the bad.

History of hockey trades by general manager Ron Hextall - NHL Trade Tracker

Honestly see very little issues outside of Granlund.

Now let’s do Dubas. Seth Jarvis to get out of Patrick Marleau. 1st for Nick Foligno. Trevor Moore to get Jack Campbell. Sam Dickinson for EK65. Yikes!!!!!

 

[HandshakeLine]

The only things in this hockey world worth admiring are power forwards, a good hit, and the occasional superstar.

I still cannot imagine rooting for a GM.

 

[Pancakes]

The one does not outweigh all the bad.

History of hockey trades by general manager Ron Hextall - NHL Trade Tracker

Of course not but my point is sometimes bad gms do good things. People being fully doom and gloom with Dubas should realize that. He might accidentally hit a few home runs. Even the bad gms usually do.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

JR's track record in the NHL is complete dogshit except for like an 18 month period with the Pens and getting lucky that Cam Ward was a wall for the Canes in one post season.

Sometimes crazy shit happens. Let's hope it happens again with Dubas in the post-Sid era.

 

[Duffy13]

I've never been overly excited about Dubas' ability to fill out a defense core or his ability to properly get a handle on the goalie situation, however he is the newest part of management, and I would absolutely love the ability to critically look at his body of work with this team, without Sullivan there to muck up lineups, and stand behind the bench deciding whether it would be better to put on his glasses instead of calling for a timeout.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The only things in this hockey world worth admiring are power forwards, a good hit, and the occasional superstar.

I still cannot imagine rooting for a GM.

Well the hope was he'd restore ambition and direction for the franchise. Draft and develop well, using his experience in the minors GM'ing and scouting.
So I'm more rooting for what he can do for the organization than him.

I just want my hungry, Cup-seeking Pittsburgh Penguins back...even if it takes a numbers of years to lay the foundation for that.

Who I don't get is the people who wanted him to fail from the jump. It's like they care more about being right about initial takes when he arrived than the future of the damn team lol.

 

[eXile3]

Well the hope was he'd restore ambition and direction for the franchise. Draft and develop well, using his experience in the minors GM'ing and scouting.
So I'm more rooting for what he can do for the organization than him.

I just want my hungry, Cup-seeking Pittsburgh Penguins back...even if it takes a numbers of years to lay the foundation for that.

Who I don't get is the people who wanted him to fail from the jump. It's like they care more about being right about initial takes when he arrived than the future of the damn team lol.

I was very excited when they brought him onboard for him to only make Hextall like moves. The Graves signing was an immediate strike against that I started wondering if he isn’t the guy I thought he was.

I also hate his personality. When he started the whole “smartest guy in the room” crap was when I really turned on him.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The most offensive part of this last part of the Crosby era is that each of the core guys took salary hits with the intention of the org using the extra money to compete. Ostensibly, to add some more talent and star power to help them in their later years after careers of turd polishing.

That hope ended with the Guentzel trade. They should have been trying to add another Guentzel calibre forward instead of losing the one they had.

Now the turds are turdier than ever due to using the cap space on scrubs like Hayes and Glass in order to get mid rounders years from now, and nobody in their late 30s can reasonably be expected to carry them.

They were sold a false bill of goods.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Well the hope was he'd restore ambition and direction for the franchise. Draft and develop well, using his experience in the minors GM'ing and scouting.
So I'm more rooting for what he can do for the organization than him.

I just want my hungry, Cup-seeking Pittsburgh Penguins back...even if it takes a numbers of years to lay the foundation for that.

Who I don't get is the people who wanted him to fail from the jump. It's like they care more about being right about initial takes when he arrived than the future of the damn team lol.

And do you see any Cup-seeking Pittsburgh Penguins?

It’s it’s one thing to be hopeful, it’s another to wishcast this whole supposed strategy which never actually materializes.

Not to be cynical or anything but we can’t really judge any of these execs on anything except what they do.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

And do you see any Cup-seeking Pittsburgh Penguins?

It’s it’s one thing to be hopeful, it’s another to wishcast this whole supposed strategy which never actually materializes.

Not to be cynical or anything but we can’t really judge any of these execs on anything except what they do.

Honestly, I don't get the impression that FSG really cares about winning any cups in Pittsburgh.

They're here for the real estate development, and that's it.

 

[pistolpete11]

I blame FSG more than Hextall or Dubas for signing Sullivan to a premature extension when he was already way past his best by date.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, Sullivan's a f***ing dipshit and the FO has been miserable since the B2Bs but now that this team's stuck with a buncha aloof billionaire owners who don't know or care about hockey (they just wanted to add another ~thing~ to their portfolio), we as fans are just ratf***ed until they get bored and sell the team in a decade or two.

Hope the Pens get absurdly lucky and fall into another couple of generational talents in the draft, cuz that's probably the only way this team doesn't end up in misery mire.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I was very excited when they brought him onboard for him to only make Hextall like moves. The Graves signing was an immediate strike against that I started wondering if he isn’t the guy I thought he was.

I also hate his personality. When he started the whole “smartest guy in the room” crap was when I really turned on him.

I'm fine with him speaking any way he wants as he long as he drafts and develops well, and builds a new core and championship window.
Yeah, sometimes he comes off as an arrogant know-it-all, but it's like 5 interviews a year or whatever. He treats people respectfully, and what he says is often enlightening. I don't see a big problem there.
Certainly prefer this over timid ass Hextall.

And do you see any Cup-seeking Pittsburgh Penguins?

It’s it’s one thing to be hopeful, it’s another to wishcast this whole supposed strategy which never actually materializes.

Not to be cynical or anything but we can’t really judge any of these execs on anything except what they do.

I blame FSG for this more than him. They're the ones who don't care about Cups. He was already verbalizing the mandate on day 1 here, before he made any assessments on the situation. This is not his direction by choice. He's following orders.
My hope when they signed him was that FSG would defer to his experience and knowledge of the game. FSG are idiots with hockey. I hoped they would acknowledge that fact and give him full autonomy. But that never happened, so we're stuck in fence-sitting mode.

I don't see a lack of drive for championships from him at all. He was clearly furious in Toronto when they lost. I think he works hard and wants it.
I like his trades that are geared towards the future, and I like that he's thinking about it so much.
But his task is ridiculous. Fix Hextall's mistakes while building a competitive roster, and while replenishing the farm. What team has successfully done everything at the same time for an extended period?

 

[eXile3]

I'm fine with him speaking any way he wants as he long as he drafts and develops well, and builds a new core and championship window.
Yeah, sometimes he comes off as an arrogant know-it-all, but it's like 5 interviews a year or whatever. He treats people respectfully, and what he says is often enlightening. I don't see a big problem there.
Certainly prefer this over timid ass Hextall.

I blame FSG for this more than him. They're the ones who don't care about Cups. He was already verbalizing the mandate on day 1 here, before he made any assessments on the situation. This is not his direction by choice. He's following orders.
My hope when they signed him was that FSG would defer to his experience and knowledge of the game. FSG are idiots with hockey. I hoped they would acknowledge that fact and give him full autonomy. But that never happened, so we're stuck in fence-sitting mode.

I don't see a lack of drive for championships from him at all. He was clearly furious in Toronto when they lost. I think he works hard and wants it.
I like his trades that are geared towards the future, and I like that he's thinking about it so much.
But his task is ridiculous. Fix Hextall's mistakes while building a competitive roster, and while replenishing the farm. What team has successfully done everything at the same time for an extended period?

The problem with it is that usually the ones acting like the smartest in the room aren’t, and they don’t take other opinions, and perspectives in consideration.

Dubas appears to have this disdain for the internet community but he’s an idiot if he thinks he’s smarter than some of them. There are definitely people out there that understand the game, and analytics as good, if not better then he does. If he’s always dismissing opinions as less than his it’s a bad thing.

 

[eXile3]

I blame FSG more than Hextall or Dubas for signing Sullivan to a premature extension when he was already way past his best by date.

I still think it’s within the realm of possibility that FSGs direction is the issue. I can see them asking the impossible. Stay competitive so they can charge top price for tickets, but also rebuild at the same time.

If that’s true they’re just as culpable as Hextall or Dubas.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The problem with it is that usually the ones acting like the smartest in the room aren’t, and they don’t take other opinions, and perspectives in consideration.

Dubas appears to have this disdain for the internet community but he’s an idiot if he thinks he’s smarter than some of them. There are definitely people out there that understand the game, and analytics as good, if not better then he does. If he’s always dismissing opinions as less than his it’s a bad thing.

He definitely takes other ppl's opinions into consideration. Talks about what his staff provide all the time. Pumps their tires. If anything he listens too much, especially to Sullivan.

He's more connected to the internet community, since he's young for a GM. So he surely reads a lot of crap about himself and takes it personal, as many would.
He never claimed to be an analytics guru. In fact he said the opposite. He doesn't have a background like that. That's just a narrative that was thrust on him.
He has a more traditional approach with roster building, drafting and development than people say. He was brought up that way, getting a job in like his teens in the AHL and scouting with old school methods.

It's true he does think about himself more highly than his results warrant though. I'll give you that. He could dial back the tone a bit.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I reiterate: it doesn’t matter what a GM says in how we evaluate them; it’s in what they do.

It could quite easily be that FSG is preventing Dubas from making moves, but that doesn’t make Dubas a good GM then, he’s just being forced to be a bad one.

No offense AB, but I think you are being so invested in Dubas the public figure, that you’re missing Dubas, the actual GM who is currently treading water.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Like let’s review: if Hextall’s mistakes were so fatal, why try to compete? You have full organizational power to do whatever you want as PoHO and GM. If Hextall’s failures were not life threatening, then who cares what mistakes he made?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Like let’s review: if Hextall’s mistakes were so fatal, why try to compete? You have full organizational power to do whatever you want as PoHO and GM. If Hextall’s failures were not life threatening, then who cares what mistakes he made?

Well you see it depends on who you ask.

According to quite a few... Dubas' hands are tied on many matters. What can ya do? Not his fault, though. That's a totally understandable situation to put yourself in after supposedly just getting out of one. Very respectable and forthright.