Boston Bruins 24-25 Roster/Cap thread XIV

[Dennis Bonvie]

In what way is it easier? Just because 3 teams built powerhouses doesn't mean that it was harder to win. Every team has the same odds in day 1 of the season and every team has the opportunity to build a powerhouse team.

You simply have a better chance with 14 teams than 32. You also have a better chance when you only need to win 14 games vs 16 games. Add in no salary cap in the 70s too, a lot harder to win now when you have no financial advantage over another team.

No, they don't.

First of all, 18-21 teams. Not 14.

Simply using the number of teams implies they are all equal going in. But they were not. If you were watching hockey at that time you knew damn well it was going to be near impossible to beat those dynasty teams, even for the other excellent teams in the league.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

No, they don't.

First of all, 18-21 teams. Not 14.

Simply using the number of teams implies they are all equal going in. But they were not. If you were watching hockey at that time you knew damn well it was going to be near impossible to beat those dynasty teams, even for the other excellent teams in the league.

These kids just dont undrerstand how good the league was back then.

 

[PlayMakers]

very good work. I'm in line mostly for sure. Would you do Carlo for Lapierre and Chesley then deal Coyle for a RHD? I would go to Colorado with both Marchand and Frederic and come back with Ritchie, a 1, and Colton.

Thanks. I'm not sure Lapierre has the scoring chops to project as a top6 center. Barely over a point a game in any season in the Q. Hasn't hit that mark in the A.

The Colorado deal is better, it would have to be a 1st next year as they don't have a 1st this year, and Colton is a good middle6 winger. I just don't know if they'd view Colton as a piece they want for their playoff run.

 

[PlayMakers]

Even in a cap system you have teams that have financial advantages over others. Not all teams are budgeting to spend to the cap, then factor in how wealthy teams (like say Toronto) can structure contracts heavily loaded with salary bonuses paid out on July 1st vs. regular salary paid out over the course of the season as revenues come in when competing for UFAs.

Then we have the "no state tax" teams who also have a financial advantage over others.

Teams rise and fall off more quickly now, hard to build an absolute powerhouse team that can win 3-4 cups in a row in a salary cap system, opening up opportunities for other teams to win.

Don't forget endorsements.

 

[PlayMakers]

They were not free.Million here million there adds up .He did exact same thing last time he had cap space.

None of those guys counted against the cap when they were in the minors (or contract terminated) and they didn't cost any more to call up than any other minor leaguer. There was really no extra cap cost for signing them.

Sweeney took a chance on a couple former first round picks. If they worked out like Geekie, great. If not they could help Providence. It was just a low risk swing.

 

[BruinDust]

Don't forget endorsements.

Yup, look at Auston Matthews. Nationally in Canada he's been in ad campaigns for Uber Eats and RBC and probably made a decent chunk of change from both.

 

[22Brad Park]

None of those guys counted against the cap when they were in the minors (or contract terminated) and they didn't cost any more to call up than any other minor leaguer. There was really no extra cap cost for signing them.

Sweeney took a chance on a couple former first round picks. If they worked out like Geekie, great. If not they could help Providence. It was just a low risk swing.

Fair enough then & I am fine with Geekie he has earned his spot .

 

[PlayMakers]

Just addressing one of these - Marchand. Preface this that I’m a a fan of his, as I suspect we all are.

I look at his situation as an obvious opportunity to add assets. The ONLY argument to keep him, IMO, is that it’s not common practice to trade a captain and lifer and you absolutely have to ensure he’s on board with it. But if he would be, he’s a 100% trade IMO. He’s a deteriorating asset, they aren’t going to contend when he’s a top 6 forward, and I think he’d get at least a first in return. They desperately need another first as it’s likely Donny will have to use another first at some point to pay some team to take Lindholm off his hands, his latest UFA whiff.

But on top of that, and it doesn’t have to just be a Marchand issue, but doesn’t it seem at least possible there’s a real leadership problem on this team? Why give Marchand a pass for that? This team has given up 6 goals or more like 7-8 times. They’re on coach two and no better. They had a lousy camp and every veteran has underperformed. On the face of it, your leadership team kinda stinks.

I do think there is a leadership issue on this team, but I don't think Marchand is the main problem. I like both McAvoy and Pasta but they are not great leaders.

Marchand missed training camp because he was recovering from 3 surgeries, but when he did finally rejoin the team, Monty said it really raised the pace and intensity of the practices. So why was everyone taking it easy when he wasn't there?

When the team has an embarrassing loss, Marchand faces the music, but according to the media, the other two A's don't. Charlie Coyle is the guy who comes out to answer the tough questions.

Chara had Bergeron. Bergeron had Marchand. Who is the super intense, hard working second on this team?

 

[Fenian24]

Sweeney is good at building around cores but can't put one together to save his life.

And what he did this year is a perfect example. They needed a big, tough physical D and got a good one in Zadorov, they needed a tough forward who can win faceoffs and they got one in Kastelic. Lindholm has been a huge disappointment but he is more a core piece as he was looked at as the new top line center by Sweeney, which strengthens the argument that he can put a good supporting cast together but not a good core.

This is reason 1A that I do not want Sweeney here for the retool.

 

[22Brad Park]

And what he did this year is a perfect example. They needed a big, tough physical D and got a good one in Zadorov, they needed a tough forward who can win faceoffs and they got one in Kastelic. Lindholm has been a huge disappointment but he is more a core piece as he was looked at as the new top line center by Sweeney, which strengthens the argument that he can put a good supporting cast together but not a good core.

This is reason 1A that I do not want Sweeney here for the retool.

E.Lindholm is not a core piece unless you see it now because of length of that deal .Rest I can agree with

 

[PlayMakers]

Yup, look at Auston Matthews. Nationally in Canada he's been in ad campaigns for Uber Eats and RBC and probably made a decent chunk of change from both.

That probably pays better than Sullivan Tire.

And what he did this year is a perfect example. They needed a big, tough physical D and got a good one in Zadorov, they needed a tough forward who can win faceoffs and they got one in Kastelic. Lindholm has been a huge disappointment but he is more a core piece as he was looked at as the new top line center by Sweeney, which strengthens the argument that he can put a good supporting cast together but not a good core.

This is reason 1A that I do not want Sweeney here for the retool.

I mean, Sweeney is responsible for 2/3 of this core (Mac & Sway), is he not?

 

[Dr Hook]

Chara had Bergeron. Bergeron had Marchand. Who is the super intense, hard working second on this team?

You named him earlier in the post, though perhaps super intense might not be the right descriptor. Yes, Charlie Coyle, who should be wearing the A. Maybe the club giving it to Pasta and Mac meant that Coyle's voice in the Brad absence was diminished? People shit all over Coyle here, and while I think he's not had a great season so far, and been pretty poor at times, he is a hard-working guy on the ice, and, like you said, always willing to own it for the media whatever the issue.

 

[PB37]

I do think there is a leadership issue on this team, but I don't think Marchand is the main problem. I like both McAvoy and Pasta but they are not great leaders.

Marchand missed training camp because he was recovering from 3 surgeries, but when he did finally rejoin the team, Monty said it really raised the pace and intensity of the practices. So why was everyone taking it easy when he wasn't there?

When the team has an embarrassing loss, Marchand faces the music, but according to the media, the other two A's don't. Charlie Coyle is the guy who comes out to answer the tough questions.

Chara had Bergeron. Bergeron had Marchand. Who is the super intense, hard working second on this team?

To be fair, Chara had also ducked out on some post game interviews after a loss. There was one in particular he was skewered for ( think it was against the Habs ) but he was sick and pissed off from the loss and probably the last thing he wanted to do was sit and talk about his feelings. IMO media obligations don't make or break a leader.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

They were not free.Million here million there adds up .He did exact same thing last time he had cap space.

But all 3 of them only have taken up cap space when they were on the active roster, and when they are not on the active roster they take up 0 space. tufte, and Johnson were at the absolute minimum contract, so any time they were on the roster instead of someone like Lysell or Merkulov the Bruins were actually saving cap space. Jones is slightly more expensive but still at the point where when he is in the minors he costs the Bruins NO cap space

 

[22Brad Park]

But all 3 of them only have taken up cap space when they were on the active roster, and when they are not on the active roster they take up 0 space. tufte, and Johnson were at the absolute minimum contract, so any time they were on the roster instead of someone like Lysell or Merkulov the Bruins were actually saving cap space. Jones is slightly more expensive but still at the point where when he is in the minors he costs the Bruins NO cap space

Why waste any at all on these guys though? Last time we had cap space it was exact same thing.I get what you are saying about minimal and not counting in minors etc but it's ok to save a little for later if a player comes available.Even if you wanted to make a trade and need a little room it could help .

 

[Fenian24]

That probably pays better than Sullivan Tire.


I mean, Sweeney is responsible for 2/3 of this core (Mac & Sway), is he not?

He is, so we have to asks some questions about this. Is Swayman worth his salary? Drafting and developing Swayman went very well but when it came time to pay there was a disruptive hold out and Swayman has been crap on a lot of nights this season. Practicing with a college team is not getting reps in camp with pros and has effected his play this year in my opinion. He got his money, did it have to drag on as long as it did? That's on the GM when dealing with the core as well.

Is McAvoy a core piece on a cup team? Is he overpaid? Mac is a top pair D, no question (I think they are asking to much from him most nights) but is he a true number 1 on a cup contender? His play this year has been inconsistent, is it just a bad year or is he starting to decline? Does he need a better partner than what he has been paired with? I like McAvoy a lot, I wish he was in a position to simplify his game and concentrate on defense, clearing the crease and moving the puck out of the D zone. An established power play producing defenseman could slot McAvoy where he needs to be. A Physical, skilled top pair D not expected to put up great offensive numbers. I really liked this D heading into the season, seeing a good mix of physical players and skilled (and Carlo). The overall play of the D has been average at best

 

[NDiesel]

No, they don't.

First of all, 18-21 teams. Not 14.

Simply using the number of teams implies they are all equal going in. But they were not. If you were watching hockey at that time you knew damn well it was going to be near impossible to beat those dynasty teams, even for the other excellent teams in the league.

My bad on the amount of teams. I don't really think we are arguing the same concept here.

With less teams and no cap there is always going to be more talent concentrated on a few teams. But Boston had that same chance to build those powerhouses. The fact that they didn't and other teams were able to build amazing teams doesmt mean to me that it was harder to win, just that other teams did a better job.

However, there is no arguing that you have a better chance to win a cup with less teams. It's simple probability, being better than 20 teams is easier than being better than 31 teams.

 

[22Brad Park]

Fluto kicking them today..

 

[TCB]

ConGrats Charlie !!

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Why waste any at all on these guys though? Last time we had cap space it was exact same thing.I get what you are saying about minimal and not counting in minors etc but it's ok to save a little for later if a player comes available.Even if you wanted to make a trade and need a little room it could help .

As many have tried to explain, it's not "wasted". They were using that space whether it was Tufte up or McLaughlin or Koepke. They were using the Tyler Johnson space - it was either being given to TJo or it would be given to Poitras. There was no saving - and in fact some of the guys you're lamenting we signed actually saved us more space than using some of the prospects.

 

[NDiesel]

Even in a cap system you have teams that have financial advantages over others. Not all teams are budgeting to spend to the cap, then factor in how wealthy teams (like say Toronto) can structure contracts heavily loaded with salary bonuses paid out on July 1st vs. regular salary paid out over the course of the season as revenues come in when competing for UFAs.

Then we have the "no state tax" teams who also have a financial advantage over others.

Teams rise and fall off more quickly now, hard to build an absolute powerhouse team that can win 3-4 cups in a row in a salary cap system, opening up opportunities for other teams to win.

Your financial advantage is much more limited though with a cap. Every team can only spend that max amount. Of course geographically, if we want to dive further, there are advantages such as state tax, low cost of living, low Canadian dollar, weather, etc. But these factors don't change with or without a cap, so these same advantages apply either way.

 

[22Brad Park]

As many have tried to explain, it's not "wasted". They were using that space whether it was Tufte up or McLaughlin or Koepke. They were using the Tyler Johnson space - it was either being given to TJo or it would be given to Poitras. There was no saving - and in fact some of the guys you're lamenting we signed actually saved us more space than using some of the prospects.

You can fill out a roster without being against the cap right?

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

You can fill out a roster without being against the cap right?

??? Of course. But Tufte/Max Jones/TyJo signings aren’t relevant to that whatsoever

 

[22Brad Park]

??? Of course. But Tufte/Max Jones/TyJo signings aren’t relevant to that whatsoever

Fair enough ,I am always ready to admit if someone has better answers or more knowledge on a situation .

 

[Coach Parker]

If it were up to me, my deadline approach would be as follows...

If I could add a first line center at a discount I take that chance. I know it doesn't make the Bruins a contender this year, but it gives me hope they could contend next year with a good off-season. Pettersson, Miller, Barzal (even though he's played RW since they got Horvat), even Mittelstadt, they all have warts but they also have immense talent.

Failing that...

I would move Carlo for a young center, maybe a guy who's struggling the last 2 years like Cozens/Zegras, or a guy who was projected to be a top6 but hasn't popped yet, like Sillinger, or even an NHL ready prospect like Del Bel Belluz. There has to be a fit somewhere along that spectrum.

Then I'd move Coyle under similar criteria, but this time I'd be looking at defensemen. I think Coyle would be sought after in New Jersey and Vegas and they're probably not on his no trade list. I'm not looking for a star here so Seamus Casey in NJ is probably a reach, but someone like Kaeden Korczak in Vegas could be a good fit. Big, strong, can skate, moves the puck well... Kovacevic is also an option if they don't think he's critical to their playoff chances. Both teams have the cap space.

Freddy goes if he wants more than $4m and isn't signed by 4Nations. (I think Frederic will want $4-5m.) I would like to think a reasonable return would be a 2nd and 4th but we've seen 'gritty' guys go for more.

I keep Geekie. He's the same age as our core and I think he'll outproduce his next contract. I also think it would cost a lot more to replace him in free agency. At worst, I think he'll be worth more a year from now and at best he'll be too valuable to trade (if he cracks 30 next year).

I'd probably keep Brazeau too. He's not going to fetch much in trade and he's not going to be expensive to re-sign. I think one of the big mistakes with this team this year is that there was no competition for jobs. They didn't have the cap space for it and the kids didn't have great camps. Brazeau and Wahlstrom (if he's not waived) can push guys for jobs in the fall.

I'd see if there's a market for Korpisalo and give DiPietro a shot in the NHL. Korpisalo has had a solid season and would upgrade the tandem in Utah. DiPietro is a UFA at the end of the season and I'd like to find out if he can be a backup here next year, or if we have to sign another veteran.

Marchand is a tough one. I don't want him to go and I'd only move him if I thought my chances of getting him back were better than 50/50. I guess it would be negligent not to see what's out there in terms of offers, but the two most likely destinations, Colorado and Vegas, don't have 1st round picks or even particularly good prospects. Would Colorado give up Mittelstadt for him? If the return isn't great I'd rather keep him.

Ideally, Plan B would add two NHL players (F & D) to the lineup. It would give us a 2nd and 4th for a full slate of picks at the draft. And it clears $12m which gives us about $32m in cap space, plenty of room to re-sign our RFA's and to make a big offer to Rantanen or Ehlers.

I'd also get Lysell up for the rest of the season to let him get comfortable and see if he can be a middle6 winger for us next year. (I think he'll be up regardless.)

Lastly, I let Sacco and the whole coaching staff go and bring in the best young coach I could get. It takes so long to teach a new defensive system... I bring that guy in now so they have 25 games to lay the groundwork and set the plan for the off-season.

Well thought out and can't agree more. If you can get a C for a discount, you make that move because there are none in the system and no picks upcoming in Pastrnak's window either.

I'm not sold on Geekie, (even though I was told a year before he got here that the Bruins were heavily scouting him and Larkin before he signed with Detroit) but if he comes in at a cheap price it works. Especially if you are moving Zacha in a bigger deal. You'd want Geekie XXX Pastrnak to have a least some chemistry.