Prospect Info: '24-'25 Prospects Thread: Generation Z

[Peat]

The only thing I'd say that influences me about the roster today in terms of drafting is that I think stapling a guy to Crosby's hip is a real boon there. If I needed a tie breaker, it'd push me to forward. Although I think the draft's history just makes F a good tie breaker in general.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah I’m just not quite there on Misa vs Schaefer

I really like this top 4 but Schaefer is too much of a beast for me to pass on.

I don’t fault anyone if they think Misa is better prospect I just hate saying things like “this isn’t like Makar vs Wright”… like it could absolutely be. Or Hagens becomes the best player in this class. Who tf knows.

Like take Misa because you think he’s the best prospect not because our shitty pool has no C prospects. Would we take Schaefer if we had Yager lmao?

That's fine.

I think Schaefer is going to be a dominate player and likely is going to put San Jose into contender status very shortly when they ultimately get them.

I just would much rather be a team building down the gut versus the backend. I'd take an average 1C over any defensive prospect of the last 10-15 years not named Cale Makar. And nobody expected Cale Makar to hit the way he did.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I kinda prefer Misa's flexibility at center or wing tbh. I know this team's probably got no shot at either Schaefer or Misa, but I think I'd lean Misa if given a golden ticket.

 

[Jacob]

Frondell to me just has the look and feel of a guy that’s a good NHL player but that’s also majorly clutch, buys into any system, brings intangibles and won’t give you any guff in terms of contract talks, trade demands or anything off-ice. Based on nothing but vibes.

Hagens, conversely, strikes me as a problem child.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

That's fine.

I think Schaefer is going to be a dominate player and likely is going to put San Jose into contender status very shortly when they ultimately get them.

I just would much rather be a team building down the gut versus the backend. I'd take an average 1C over any defensive prospect of the last 10-15 years not named Cale Makar. And nobody expected Cale Makar to hit the way he did.

Depends on your definition of avg. 1C but fair enough

 

[SEALBound]

no one knows that right now

Laf was supposed to be head and shoulders the guy. He’d maybe be outside the top 5 in a redraft. Imagine taking Sanderson above Byfield that year- you’d be crazy. Not so much now.

If you think he’s the guy. Take him. The gap may end up being a Hughes/Makar to a Hischier/RNH. Or vice versa! But you can’t definitively say it’s not.

Youre acting like these are absolute truths that these are the best F and D in the draft- they are not. I very much think Schaefer is the best prospect today but if you put a gun to my head I would probably say someone from the field ends up as the best player from this class in 20 years, just because those are the odds.

You are applying black and white logic to a scenario that has zero black and white logic.

Take the player you think is “best”. And be right in your eval and development plan for them.

I mean, any time we are talking about the draft, there's always an unspoken undertone of "well, it's the draft and it's a crapshoot and anything could happen". Of course anyone of these guys could bust. If we had crystal balls, there would be no busts but we still have the Yakupovs of the world.

I'm not speaking in absolute truths either. I'm merely basing my decisions on current scouting reports, production, video, and other professional draft ranking. Saying Misa is the best forward is hardly a controversial statement given he's the consensus #2 pick as multiple ranking lists published recently have him there. Being that Schaefer is a dman and the #1ov pick, it stands to reason that we can call Misa the best forward.

I just firmly believe that the gap between the two is not as great as some might say. They are both great players and are safe bets to be future NHL players. I'm merely suggesting that if your team has a desperate need at center and is loaded on the back end, they are better off taking the top-ranked center in the draft - Misa. BPA is good premise but is also not an absolute.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean practically speaking, when was the last cup winner we saw built from the net or the blueline out?

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I mean practically speaking, when was the last cup winner we saw built from the net or the blueline out?

Probably the Kings.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Probably the Kings.

Yeah, I was kinda thinking of them. But they're probably the only team I can think of who had success like that in a long time. Maybe also the Blues?

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Yeah, I was kinda thinking of them. But they're probably the only team I can think of who had success like that in a long time. Maybe also the Blues?

The Blues would also be a good example.
I was also thinking of the Bruins and the Ducks.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I mean practically speaking, when was the last cup winner we saw built from the net or the blueline out?

I don’t think taking a D 1st means you are building from the blueline out.

I look at Hedman, Makar, Pietrangelo (2x) anchoring recent winners and think you need an 1D. Remember how important Letang was in 2016? Before that, guys like Keith and Doughty. Even Florida who was more by committee was getting elite play from Forsling.

I don’t think we need to draft a bunch of D in the top 10 next few years trying to build some 2017 Nashville redux but I think we do gotta get a 1D.

The inverse to your point is Toronto. Built from the front with very little on the backend and it’s definitely hurt them.

I also think when Schaefer comes back for the u18 and people on this board actually watch they’ll be completely sold on him.

 

[chethejet]

Pens get lucky they will not be in that position to add a top center in all likelihood. They just have nothing there and Misa is a start. But in the end, fill the center prospect top 6 hole and now next year with draft capital, move up for the next top center. Dubas now has the prospects of being a team on the come. At the very least, take one of the centers this year. I prefer O'Brien is Pens are say 6 to 8 in the draft.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don’t think taking a D 1st means you are building from the blueline out.

I look at Hedman, Makar, Pietrangelo (2x) anchoring recent winners and think you need an 1D. Remember how important Letang was in 2016? Before that, guys like Keith and Doughty. Even Florida who was more by committee was getting elite play from Forsling.

I don’t think we need to draft a bunch of D in the top 10 next few years trying to build some 2017 Nashville redux but I think we do gotta get a 1D.

The inverse to your point is Toronto. Built from the front with very little on the backend and it’s definitely hurt them.

I also think when Schaefer comes back for the u18 and people on this board actually watch they’ll be completely sold on him.

Sure, I was must mostly musing on the eternal C vs D debate.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Sure, I was must mostly musing on the eternal C vs D debate.

I think it’s so hard because you can’t really quantify a C or D that are exactly as good as each other. Also seems like there’s just more truly elite centermen than truly elite defenders. Like 10-11 of em versus like 5-6 d-men?

after watching 4 Nations, I prob take Makar 1st over McDavid if I was a GM and there was a disaster fantasy draft tomorrow. But that’s like two top 10 players of all time when it’s all said and done.

Idk. The debate is eternal for a reason I suppose.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, I think more to the point that building from D out makes you run a specific kind of system catered to that where a C lets you build in a number of different ways.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Counterintuitive but I don’t think drafting = team building. Drafting is more a step in team building process. I just go back to taking the guy you think will be best player and being right.

Extreme example to show my thinking- I’d rather sort out having 3 young guys who project to be perennial Norris finalists and shuffling the roster around once they’re in the NHL… Rather than having 1 future Norris type, a Suzuki tier center, and a Hayton/Kotkaniemi tier C because you wanted to build out from the front.

But biggest thing is just hitting on picks. Could be a winger, a goalie, whatever. Just hit some home runs.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Any of Misa, Hagens, and Frondell, could play 2nd line/middle 6 minutes next season for us (at least if Sullivan is gone).
I don’t see Schaefer being a top 4 next year (Even if Sully is gone).

I understand the best player available argument. But as others have pointed out, that is only if it’s an obvious difference in talent. There is a lot to be said for roster construction. The best player isn’t always the best fit.

Like Herb Brooks said. “I’m not looking for the best players, I’m looking for the right ones”

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Any of Misa, Hagens, and Frondell, could play 2nd line/middle 6 minutes next season for us (at least if Sullivan is gone).
I don’t see Schaefer being a top 4 next year (Even if Sully is gone).

I understand the best player available argument. But as others have pointed out, that is only if it’s an obvious difference in talent.

I agree on bolded. Thing is— I do think it is an obvious difference in talent between Schaefer and Misa. I don’t think there’s been a game this year where Schaefer hasn’t been the clear best player on the ice. I thought he was the 2nd best player at the U18 as a 16 year old. Then this season… CHL-NTDP, WJC, OHL… I simply think he’s way better than Misa.

Doesn’t matter. I’ve said that ad nauseam so I’ll shut up. We’re gonna overdraft the Martin kid from Soo and he will be a nice 3C in 7 years

 

[Empoleon8771]

Any of Misa, Hagens, and Frondell, could play 2nd line/middle 6 minutes next season for us (at least if Sullivan is gone).
I don’t see Schaefer being a top 4 next year (Even if Sully is gone).

I understand the best player available argument. But as others have pointed out, that is only if it’s an obvious difference in talent. There is a lot to be said for roster construction. The best player isn’t always the best fit.

Like Herb Brooks said. “I’m not looking for the best players, I’m looking for the right ones”

Why is that the case? I know Schaefer has missed a lot of time this year, but I'm not seeing why Misa could play middle-6 minutes but Schaefer can't play top-4 minutes.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Why is that the case? I know Schaefer has missed a lot of time this year, but I'm not seeing why Misa could play middle-6 minutes but Schaefer can't play top-4 minutes.

Misa def more filled out, better along the boards, has played 3 years major junior. I think he’s the only guy who it’s reasonable for him to play next year. Still would send him to college though.

Schaefer could play today with his feet but he’s better off doing another year OHL/NCAA just to fill out some and play games.

Both “could” but I don’t know if they “should”

Completely disagree anyone else in this class is ready for anything past a cup of coffee.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Why is that the case? I know Schaefer has missed a lot of time this year, but I'm not seeing why Misa could play middle-6 minutes but Schaefer can't play top-4 minutes.

For starters, the injury thing is a big part of it.
Also, I would venture to guess that that Gryz will be back next season. So they’ll run back Gryz/Letang. From there, you certainly aren’t putting an 18 year old puck mover with Karlsson. It’s hard enough for an experienced 2 way d-man to have that role. So by default, there just isn’t a spot there unless one of Letang or Karlsson is gone.

 

[PensFutures]

Upcoming playoff schedule for some of our prospects:

NCAA
WMU (Vaisanen) wins in 2OT to move on, they play UMass on Saturday, 6:30EST (ESPNU)
Providence (Chase Yoder) plays Denver today at 5:30 (ESPN+)

OHL
Kingston (Pieniniemi) starts their series against Sudbury tonight at 7 (OHL live)
Brampton (Harding) starts their series vs Oshawa tonight at 7 (watch.chl.ca)

WHL
Calgary (Howe) starts their series against Saskatoon tonight at 7MDT

 

[Darren McCord]

Why is that the case? I know Schaefer has missed a lot of time this year, but I'm not seeing why Misa could play middle-6 minutes but Schaefer can't play top-4 minutes.

Defensemen rarely make the jump right away. It is just harder to break in. You can't be sheltered as much in that role and take much more abuse. Outside of Dahlin which high drafter Dmen have started at 18 recently?

 

[SEALBound]

As much as I like the top 5 in this draft, I'm not making any assumptions on play time next year for any of them. I think Schaefer and Misa are capable though.

Yeah, I was kinda thinking of them. But they're probably the only team I can think of who had success like that in a long time. Maybe also the Blues?

The Blues would also be a good example.
I was also thinking of the Bruins and the Ducks.

Kings: Kopitar, Carter, Richards down the middle.
Bruins: Krejci and Bergeron down the middle.

Even the Blues had ROR and Schenn. Arguable the weakest "star power" cup winner, but I think that demonstrates how not having a strong 1-2 down the middle and winning the cup is the extreme exception to the rule.

Counterintuitive but I don’t think drafting = team building. Drafting is more a step in team building process. I just go back to taking the guy you think will be best player and being right.

Extreme example to show my thinking- I’d rather sort out having 3 young guys who project to be perennial Norris finalists and shuffling the roster around once they’re in the NHL… Rather than having 1 future Norris type, a Suzuki tier center, and a Hayton/Kotkaniemi tier C because you wanted to build out from the front.

But biggest thing is just hitting on picks. Could be a winger, a goalie, whatever. Just hit some home runs.

Kind of disingenuous to allude to Schaefer being a Norris caliber dman and Misa only being a "Suzuki tier center".

We can have a more practical example looking at SJS this year.

Up front they have Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, and Toffoli upfront. They have Couture and Wennber for a little while too. On the back end, they really only have Dickenson in the pipeline. I'd like to think Liljegren, Ferraro, and Cagnoni could hold down the fort but we all know that's a steaming pile of BS. Now, if the consensus #1 ov is Schaefer, it makes all the sense in the world to add a future top dman to your young forward trio of Celebrini, Smith, and Eklund. People might raise an eyebrow if they took Misa. I imagine the average comment would be "Man, they have a strong forward group and they really needed a top-end dman, it's shocking they didn't take Schaefer", even though Misa is projected to be really good.

If the rankings were slightly different and scouts thought Misa was #1 over Schaefer, we could still look at their roster and say "Hey, Misa is good but Schaefer is also really good and we need help on the back end." While it certainly wouldn't "hurt" adding Misa, you need a balance of quality assets to help shape the entire team.

If that was the case, would you question them taking Misa?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Kind of disingenuous to allude to Schaefer being a Norris caliber dman and Misa only being a "Suzuki tier center".

Not what I’m alluding to at all? I made up an extreme hypothetical example about drafting for position over who you think could be the best player. Which I literally say in my post. You gotta read before you type some of these essays man.