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Prospect Info: '24-'25 Prospects Thread: Generation Z

Peat said:
So too was Sprong, or close enough. Has he get the rest of the game needed to stick in the NHL?
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In Spezza's interview last game, he praised K a couple times, specifically his offense, including his acumen on the PP. I took that as Coach's speak for he needs to work on the defensive side of his game. Also, it remains to be seen if his skating will be sufficient at the NHL level.

Hoping for the best.
 
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Peat said:
So too was Sprong, or close enough. Has he get the rest of the game needed to stick in the NHL?
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From what I've read, Koivunen plays substantially more physical than Sprong and doesn't have the same defensive issues. That said, Koivunen does have some concerns with his skating, namely his acceleration.

I also think Sprong washed out because of attitude, not because of talent. He's been a successful NHL producer, but he has basically refused to try to be anything more than that.
 
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Al Smith said:
In Spezza's interview last game, he praised K a couple times, specifically his offense, including his acumen on the PP. I took that as Coach's speak for he needs to work on the defensive side of his game. Also, it remains to be seen if his skating will be sufficient at the NHL level.

Hoping for the best.
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At least there’s one guy in the org talking about something other than playing the “right” way. Everyone else wants every player to be grinding bitches.
 
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CheckingLineCenter said:
I would say he’s the anti-Sprong. He’s pretty responsible.

question with Koivunen is— is he too average of a skater/athlete for his size? Spezza mentioned conditioning as well.
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Get him a summer with Andy O'Brien or Gary Roberts. Now that he's in NA and has some clout around him, I think getting access to the S&C programs needed to take that next step gets a lot easier. I don't know what's available to a 18-19yo in Finland but it's probably not as good as NA.
 
SEALBound said:
Get him a summer with Andy O'Brien or Gary Roberts. Now that he's in NA and has some clout around him, I think getting access to the S&C programs needed to take that next step gets a lot easier. I don't know what's available to a 18-19yo in Finland but it's probably not as good as NA.
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I’m sure they have a specific plan for him.

I will say there’s a bit of a fallacy with these kids we all fall into. It seems like they can add a gear, weight, etc. But we forget the vast majority of them have been extremely active and healthy and focused on training for a while now. Theres a chance that if they could’ve added the extra weight, step, strength, etc they would have already.

Koivunen is 21 going on 22. He’s been a NHL draft pick for 4 years and probably very focused on hockey for longer than that. There’s a chance he’s pretty much physically maxed out no matter what type of training he engages in. Hopefully not. But it’s possible.
 
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Hard to add significant weight but yes players mature and will add some. He just needs to get to his optimum strength next couple years which involves skating and experience as well. Pens have a couple nice LW's and with St Ivany, Brunicke, and the other draftees on Rd, the need is centers shoch they will address in this draft. Possible next draft as well.
 
chethejet said:
Hard to add significant weight but yes players mature and will add some. He just needs to get to his optimum strength next couple years which involves skating and experience as well. Pens have a couple nice LW's and with St Ivany, Brunicke, and the other draftees on Rd, the need is centers shoch they will address in this draft. Possible next draft as well.
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Absolutely need to prioritize centers the next couple of drafts if all things are close or equal in value. 100%, you win down the middle!
 
Just want to make clear me bringing up Sprong wasn't "that's who I've heard Koivunen is", it was more using the most familiar example to point out that being the leading AHL rookie scorer only guarantees so much. Technically ahead of Sprong (but in a lot more games) that year was Mason Appleton, who never cracked 40 points in the NHL. And those are some of the good outcomes. Top three from 18-19 - Barre-Boulet, Cooper Marody, and Tyler Benson - are all out of the league. Go to 21-22 and it looks like Jakob Pelletier is following them, Jonatan Berggren feels 50-50...

In fact, Sprong might be the most successful such player out of the period I looked at bar the huge successes of Josh Norris and JJ Peterka. Logan Stankoven probably goes on to be good, Formenton probably is if he's not a dirtbag.

I'd suggest that 90% of the time, a forward who spends his entire rookie year in the AHL simply doesn't have the skill and vision to dictate at the NHL level. They might have the skill and vision to play off of a guy successfully, but to play off of someone, they need to be pretty complete.

We'll see what happens next but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't kick on because he doesn't have the athleticism to get separation. Which, sure, as 5th best prospect in a non-prospect rich org isn't awful. Although if I'm comparing him to Murashov, I think maybe I prefer Murashov's chances.
 
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I think both can be true that Koivunen is a legitimately good prospect and one of their top-5 prospects while he may only end up a middle-6 caliber guy. I don't think anyone views him as a surefire top line forward, I think the best case scenario may be similar to Peterka and that's a really optimistic outlook.

If he ends up another Berggren or Appleton caliber player, I don't think many people would be surprised. Solid NHL piece but nothing groundbreaking.
 
Dipsy Doodle said:
Honestly, the Pens are in the "Malone, Mango Salsa, Armstrong, Christensen, Orpik, Welch" stage of the retool right now. Lots of quantity but not much quality, a few pieces who'll contribute but many will add up to nothing.

This draft will be the first chance to add a significant piece. We'll see how it goes.
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I disagree. This year we probably get two of those pieces. We are entering the 2001 and 2002 era of draft picks if you want to compare it to the previous rebuild.
 
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Gurglesons said:
I disagree. This year we probably get two of those pieces. We are entering the 2001 and 2002 era of draft picks if you want to compare it to the previous rebuild.
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There will be a couple chances. But the Rangers pick - if we get it this year - will be in the Groats/Yager draft range rather than top 5 range, so we may only get that calibre a prospect.
 
CheckingLineCenter said:
I’m sure they have a specific plan for him.

I will say there’s a bit of a fallacy with these kids we all fall into. It seems like they can add a gear, weight, etc. But we forget the vast majority of them have been extremely active and healthy and focused on training for a while now. Theres a chance that if they could’ve added the extra weight, step, strength, etc they would have already.

Koivunen is 21 going on 22. He’s been a NHL draft pick for 4 years and probably very focused on hockey for longer than that. There’s a chance he’s pretty much physically maxed out no matter what type of training he engages in. Hopefully not. But it’s possible.
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I think you would be surprised in the difference between some training programs. When you go to AOB or GR, you're more or less going to fitness bootcamp. Other programs you might meet a trainer at the gym or work through a program that's been built for you. Go back and read about Pouliot circa 16/17-ish. He said he was always slightly chubby, but when it was coming down to "you either take the next step or your NHL career is in question," he spent the summer with Gary Roberts and walked into training camp with a 6 pack and was one of the best-conditioned players in camp. If your issue is speed and acceleration, that is definitely something that can be improved with the right programs in the offseason.

That said, for me, it's not so much about adding weight but rather toning up and adding explosiveness and agility so that it doesn't become a hindrance. If that is your focus, you can slowly add weight without it affecting your game. People here that used to say "Pettersson should add 20lbs of solid muscle!", yeah, they were out to lunch and likely don't understand what that kind of weight can do to performance.
Peat said:
Just want to make clear me bringing up Sprong wasn't "that's who I've heard Koivunen is", it was more using the most familiar example to point out that being the leading AHL rookie scorer only guarantees so much. Technically ahead of Sprong (but in a lot more games) that year was Mason Appleton, who never cracked 40 points in the NHL. And those are some of the good outcomes. Top three from 18-19 - Barre-Boulet, Cooper Marody, and Tyler Benson - are all out of the league. Go to 21-22 and it looks like Jakob Pelletier is following them, Jonatan Berggren feels 50-50...

In fact, Sprong might be the most successful such player out of the period I looked at bar the huge successes of Josh Norris and JJ Peterka. Logan Stankoven probably goes on to be good, Formenton probably is if he's not a dirtbag.

I'd suggest that 90% of the time, a forward who spends his entire rookie year in the AHL simply doesn't have the skill and vision to dictate at the NHL level. They might have the skill and vision to play off of a guy successfully, but to play off of someone, they need to be pretty complete.

We'll see what happens next but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't kick on because he doesn't have the athleticism to get separation. Which, sure, as 5th best prospect in a non-prospect rich org isn't awful. Although if I'm comparing him to Murashov, I think maybe I prefer Murashov's chances.
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There's also plenty of good NHL players that are producing well that didn't produce so great in the AHL. Rust was hardly a major AHL producer. Rakell was meh as well. The key here is being reasonable with expectations, especially when he is young. If he comes in next year and plays 82, I would hope for something around 30 points (15-15), not 60 points. Then with each year, expect a little more, especially as ice time and line up promotions increase.
 
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Rakell wasn't even much of a scorer in the OHL, but if you look at those teams a lot of players weren't that are now good NHLers. Hartman and J.t. Miller were his teammate and they were only at about 1 PPG. Maybe a team thing or balanced the lines out. Vellucci was their coach.
 
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I think my top-5 prospect list right now would probably be:

1. McGroarty
2. Brunicke
3. Koivunen
4. Pickering
5. Murashov

Murashov's upside is higher than arguably everyone ahead of him, but there's also a lot of risk with him just due to his age, position and lack of AHL games. Pickering is kinda the opposite, I think his upside is fairly mild (#4/5 DFD) but he also seems like a very safe bet at becoming that.

I figure whoever they pick with their 1st will end up their new #1 prospect while whoever they take with the Rangers 1st will probably fall on that McGroarty and Brunicke level. That said, who they draft at those picks will obviously influence that.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
I think my top-5 prospect list right now would probably be:

1. McGroarty
2. Brunicke
3. Koivunen
4. Pickering
5. Murashov

Murashov's upside is higher than arguably everyone ahead of him, but there's also a lot of risk with him just due to his age, position and lack of AHL games. Pickering is kinda the opposite, I think his upside is fairly mild (#4/5 DFD) but he also seems like a very safe bet at becoming that.

I figure whoever they pick with their 1st will end up their new #1 prospect while whoever they take with the Rangers 1st will probably fall on that McGroarty and Brunicke level. That said, who they draft at those picks will obviously influence that.
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I agree with your list, but not in that order. Murashov and McGroarty would be 1 and 1A with Murashov having the most upside. Most boom or bust.

Blom has fallen pretty far. He's disappointing everyone.

Depending on where we pick in the 1st round that pick in theory should be very high as well, So I agree as long as we get a top 6-8 pick.
 
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