Blue Jays GDT: 2026 v8 | Next: @ Atl | Thu, Jun 4 | 7pm ET/4pm PT | Fluharty/Bullpen vs Sale

[Kurtz]

Having a "formal closer" is a stupid, limiting decision that potentially wastes one of your best arms in a role that will keep them out of most of the most important situations, Jamie.

Just to play devil's advocate: having that ace in the hole does allow you to play it if things get spooky in the 8th - ie bases loaded with 1 out situation against Baltimore in that loss. When you play that ace early, you're stuck with bringing in a Seabold to finish blowing the game.

 

[The Nemesis]

Just to play devil's advocate: having that ace in the hole does allow you to play it if things get spooky in the 8th - ie bases loaded with 1 out situation against Baltimore in that loss. When you play that ace early, you're stuck with bringing in a Seabold to finish blowing the game.

But if you bring in someone else early in that important situation and blow it then, your ace in the hole will just be stuck sitting in the pen the rest of the game, never having a chance to influence anything because you're already behind and there is no save situation to come in for.

Obviously you're not bringing him in for the 4th or 5th inning if things get snakey, but in the 6th or later I'm turning to my best arm if he's available and the situation warrants it. Manage to the situation, not the save statistic.

 

[Kurtz]

But if you bring in someone else early in that important situation and blow it then, your ace in the hole will just be stuck sitting in the pen the rest of the game, never having a chance to influence anything because you're already behind and there is no save situation to come in for.

Obviously you're not bringing him in for the 4th or 5th inning if things get snakey, but in the 6th or later I'm turning to my best arm if he's available and the situation warrants it. Manage to the situation, not the save statistic.

It's definitely a debate imo. The other factor is that players seem to insist that closing in the 9th takes a different kind of mentality. We've seen good relievers fail in that closer role - seeing it now with Hoffman.

 

[tp71]

But if you bring in someone else early in that important situation and blow it then, your ace in the hole will just be stuck sitting in the pen the rest of the game, never having a chance to influence anything because you're already behind and there is no save situation to come in for.

Obviously you're not bringing him in for the 4th or 5th inning if things get snakey, but in the 6th or later I'm turning to my best arm if he's available and the situation warrants it. Manage to the situation, not the save statistic.

It's definitely a debate imo. The other factor is that players seem to insist that closing in the 9th takes a different kind of mentality. We've seen good relievers fail in that closer role - seeing it now with Hoffman.

This is the Baltimore Orioles leaving Zack Britton in the pen to save him for a save situation against the Jays in the elimination game a few years back. The best pitcher that year in baseball was left on the bench because there wasnt a "save situation". Not saying the Orioles wouldn't have won the game, but leaving your best pitcher in the pen because one specific thing didn't come up is beyond stupid.

The reality is the odds of winning doesnt change in the 9th being up 1, 2 or 3 runs. Over the entire history of baseball the percentage of winning remains the same. Managing to a statistic instead of the situation is not a winning strategy.