U20: 2025 WJC Switzerland roster talk

[Hinterland]

Hinterland meltdown incoming

But its true why bring him along when you are not gonna play him at all? I hope he doesnt just get a couple of minutes vs Kazakhstan.

Its also sad to see Ustinkov reduced to this state. Not to long ago he was basically the most hopeful prospect of our hockey. Now he struggles to make the U20 line up. Was really solid in last years tournament too. But his lack of improvement when it comes to decision making with the puck seems to have really caught up with him now.

Well. Kirsch is a bit of a gamble. He's got upside but he's playing low lvl hockey, got demoted from the USHL. I don't think he should be on the WJC20 roster but I'm not saying it can't work.

Huet on the other side is just stupid. There's of course the off chance he turns into Beglieri 2.0 but Grüter 2.0 is honestly the most likely scenario.

Simmchen and Neuenschwander were the best goalies available and it's not close. They're also the only ones playing pro hockey. Jenni thinks he can win without his best two goalies? I wish him best of luck but if he doesn't he better get fired (we all know he won't).

The rest of the non registrations aren't surprises though I think that Ustinkov should play. They're gonna need offense from the back end and they already cut Meier. Without Ustinkov that's a lot of skill missing. I fully understand that Ustinkov's development is disappointing overall but his international play has been mostly good. Better than Muggli's for sure. I liked Ustinkov at the most recent five nations as well. I think that should count for something.

 

[Hinterland]

Well. I don't know who's starting between Neuenschwander and Huet but on the lineup card for tonight's game vs Czechia, Kirsch is the goalie eating nachos in the pressbox.

Would have been a strange move to not play Neuenschwander after starting him in both exhibition games.

 

[Hinterland]

Lol. Stupid me. I get it now. It's Jonah who's not registered.
Doesn't worry me though. He was never gonna have a big role on that team. I guess they're just resting him. They're playing again tomorrow vs Slovakia. Unless they lose some defensemen today I fully expect him to be in the lineup tomorrow.

Like I said. He should be in Biel but I don't think the SIHF would put a 15yo on the roster for him to sit on his ass all tournament long. That's not gonna happen.

 

[Manster]

If JN is such a big shot Jenni does not want to be the coach who missed to call him up.
Even if JN is not playing a single game, having experienced a U20 WC will help him in the future.

 

[Hinterland]

If JN is such a big shot Jenni does not want to be the coach who missed to call him up.
Even if JN is not playing a single game, having experienced a U20 WC will help him in the future.

Playing big minutes for NL Biel would help him much more.

He's gonna play though. If they don't lose any defensemen today, expect Neuenschwander to play tomorrow. Pretty sure that's the plan.

 

[jonas2244]

I noticed Manuele Celio is back as assistant after screwing up every single tournament he had as a head coach.

I'm normally not the first one to critizise coaches because it's not that easy to get the inside you should have to be able to post some critisism, but that was mediocre coaching at best yesterday. Strange PP-combinations, roster decisions.

You can't blame coaches for a bad roster (if there are no better availabilities) but with this roster you should be able to perform better vs. the Czechs. Let's see if they can adjust for the upcoming games.

But yeah, Manuele Celio shouldn't be there. The same as Marco Beyer who was an assistant for the senior national team. They just have no business there.

 

[Hinterland]

I noticed Manuele Celio is back as assistant after screwing up every single tournament he had as a head coach.

I'm normally not the first one to critizise coaches because it's not that easy to get the inside you should have to be able to post some critisism, but that was mediocre coaching at best yesterday. Strange PP-combinations, roster decisions.

You can't blame coaches for a bad roster (if there are no better availabilities) but with this roster you should be able to perform better vs. the Czechs. Let's see if they can adjust for the upcoming games.

But yeah, Manuele Celio shouldn't be there. The same as Marco Beyer who was an assistant for the senior national team. They just have no business there.

Performance wasn't even bad. It was honestly an even game. Coaching and refs were the difference. Celio isn't the only one to blame. Jenni is a clown himself. He was never any better, even without Celio. You don't even need to know anything about hockey to see that this is a poorly coached team.

They can all go. All SIHF coaches from U17 level upwards are clowns. The same goes for Weibel and a few others. House cleaning needed. Badly. If the departure of Schärer wasn't enough of a warning sign then I really don't know what's needed to finally fire all those idiots.

 

[swissdude]

Performance wasn't even bad. It was honestly an even game. Coaching and refs were the difference. Celio isn't the only one to blame. Jenni is a clown himself. He was never any better, even without Celio. You don't even need to know anything about hockey to see that this is a poorly coached team.

They can all go. All SIHF coaches from U17 level upwards are clowns. The same goes for Weibel and a few others. House cleaning needed. Badly. If the departure of Schärer wasn't enough of a warning sign then I really don't know what's needed to finally fire all those idiots.

you can blame coaching and might be right about it but the issue is always the same if the players are not able to score a goal out of the best opportunities we don't need to talk about systems. the game was mostly balanced and there were enough chances to score but unfortunately the forwards at every age level don't score, for god's sake they wouldn't even score if you put a soccer goal in front of them. i understand your constant bashing of the federation which is often justified but no coach can score the goals himself and the players are obviously not able to do so

ok the pathetic PP is on the coaching staff there I agree

 

[Hinterland]

you can blame coaching and might be right about it but the issue is always the same if the players are not able to score a goal out of the best opportunities we don't need to talk about systems. the game was mostly balanced and there were enough chances to score but unfortunately the forwards at every age level don't score, for god's sake they wouldn't even score if you put a soccer goal in front of them. i understand your constant bashing of the federation which is often justified but no coach can score the goals himself and the players are obviously not able to do so

ok the pathetic PP is on the coaching staff there I agree

Czechia probably has the top goalie of the tournament. He's a monster. If he's on top of his game like he was yesterday then you can't beat him clean. So once Czechia has the lead and you're up against such a dominant goalie you gotta take advantage of PP opportunities and take measures to ensure you get odd man rushes or rebounds/deflections 5vs5 as well.

Yet still, as was pointed out by several posters, PP was completely random. They should have put one top unit together and played it for 90+ seconds every PP.

Ludvig Johnson, who was the best Swiss skater by a mile and creating offense every single shift only played 13mins.

Lars Steiner who has the best shot on the team only played 15.

Leo Braillard who scored a goal and has the 2nd best shot, was stapled to the 4th line and played less than 6mins in the 3rd period.

Muggli, who created absolutely zero offense all game long, was on the PP and played 7:41 in the 3rd. Ludvig Johnson played 4:05.

I'm sorry but there's just no excuse for that. It's piss poor coaching. About as dumb as it gets.

At least they gave the best player award to Neuenschwander. I was worried they may be too stupid to realize how good he was and blame him for the goals against.

 

[swissdude]

Czechia probably has the top goalie of the tournament. He's a monster. If he's on top of his game like he was yesterday then you can't beat him clean. So once Czechia has the lead and you're up against such a dominant goalie you gotta take advantage of PP opportunities and take measures to ensure you get odd man rushes or rebounds/deflections 5vs5 as well.

hey I really agree with most of your points concerning the piss poor coaching. I just don't believe that the players should be completely absolved of responsibility for the result. Most of these guys should be expected to claim roster spots on their NL teams. Yes the czech goalie was outstanding but not any better than Hrubec or Säteri where they should also be able to score on. I hope today we will see a higher efficiency against the slovaks and hopefully lucky bounces on our side, they haven't been lucky yesterday to say the least

 

[Hinterland]

hey I really agree with most of your points concerning the piss poor coaching. I just don't believe that the players should be completely absolved of responsibility for the result. Most of these guys should be expected to claim roster spots on their NL teams. Yes the czech goalie was outstanding but not any better than Hrubec or Säteri where they should also be able to score on. I hope today we will see a higher efficiency against the slovaks and hopefully lucky bounces on our side, they haven't been lucky yesterday to say the least

These are kids, not grown up men. You need capable coaches able to put them in position to succeed. That wasn't the case and they were up against a dominant 6'6 goalie. If Hrabal is on top of his game there's just no room to beat him clean. They played a good game. 5vs5 the game was even and they didn't allow much. The only thing I was disappointed with was discipline. I get that at least two of the penalties were milked/sold by the Czechs but they weren't dives and it was the most veteran players (Graf, Gredig, R.Meier, Dorthe) taking the penalties. They should be the ones leading the way on the ice, not warming the bench in the penalty box. They should know better.

 

[swissdude]

These are kids. You need capable coaches able to put them in position to score. That wasn't the case and they were up against a dominant 6'6 goalie. There was just no room to beat him clean. They played a good game. The only thing I was disappointed with was discipline. I get that at least two of the penalties were milked/sold by the Czechs but they weren't dives and it was the most veteran players (Graf, Gredig, R.Meier, Dorthe) taking the penalties. They should be the ones leading the way on the ice, not warming the bench in the penalty box. They should know better.

I also agree on that, the reffing was extremely questionable and the veteran players should have avoided these penalties. I just don't buy in 100% on the kids argument, if they want to play on the highest level imho they should be able to create plays to catch that 6'6 goalie out of position without a coach to show a drawing how to do it. That's what I call Hockey IQ and should be able to be expected from the best juniors we have. it's U20 after all and not U16, if they have been coached properly up to now is the other question

 

[Hinterland]

I also agree on that, the reffing was extremely questionable and the veteran players should have avoided these penalties. I just don't buy in 100% on the kids argument, if they want to play on the highest level imho they should be able to create plays to catch that 6'6 goalie out of position without a coach to show a drawing how to do it. That's what I call Hockey IQ and should be able to be expected from the best juniors we have. it's U20 after all and not U16, if they have been coached properly up to now is the other question

You're making it sound easy but they were up against a very good opponent. Czechia has a good team. Even minus some of their top players they still iced an excellent defense and strong two way forwards. 5vs5 not a lot was happening either way. That's when man advantages, tactical nuances and elite skill are gonna make the difference. Which is what happened. In such circumstances and in need of goals you have to shorten the bench and send out your skilled players. Swiss "coaches" did none of it. Not even on the PP.

 

[Kuracmugger]

Let‘s hope were better against the slovaks today, they don‘t have a hrabal calibre player between the pipes. Ustinkov needs to be in the line up and i‘d start Neuenschwander again however i can see them rotating goalies. The slovaks are slight favorites for me but we are definitley capable or beating them.

 

[Hinterland]

Let‘s hope were better against the slovaks today, they don‘t have a hrabal calibre player between the pipes. Ustinkov needs to be in the line up and i‘d start Neuenschwander again however i can see them rotating goalies. The slovaks are slight favorites for me but we are definitley capable or beating them.

I'm not so sure about that. Samuel Urban sucks but he started yesterday. Michal Pradel who didn't dress yesterday actually has Hrabaleskian upside and size. He's obviously younger and way more green but he has the tools to dominate and keep his team in games.

 

[swissdude]

You're making it sound easy but they were up against a very good opponent. Czechia has a good team. Even minus some of their top players they still iced an excellent defense and strong two way forwards. 5vs5 not a lot was happening either way. That's when man advantages, tactical nuances and elite skill are gonna make the difference. Which is what happened. In such circumstances and in need of goals you have to shorten the bench and send out your skilled players. Swiss "coaches" did none of it. Not even on the PP.

As said we agree on most points. There's no question that the special teams are decisive in such games and that the decisions regarding the composition of the PP were wrong and all your points concerning shorten the bench and tactical nuances are accurate. But I'm convinced that with guys like Hischier, Niederreiter etc. for example, we would have scored more than 1 goal despite Jenni and his stuff. All I'm saying is that we are lacking efficiency and that's unfortunately not only an issue with this team I fear that's part of swiss hockey DNA

 

[Manster]

I noticed Manuele Celio is back as assistant after screwing up every single tournament he had as a head coach.

I'm normally not the first one to critizise coaches because it's not that easy to get the inside you should have to be able to post some critisism, but that was mediocre coaching at best yesterday. Strange PP-combinations, roster decisions.

You can't blame coaches for a bad roster (if there are no better availabilities) but with this roster you should be able to perform better vs. the Czechs. Let's see if they can adjust for the upcoming games.

But yeah, Manuele Celio shouldn't be there. The same as Marco Beyer who was an assistant for the senior national team. They just have no business there.

Celio is one of the too many brown noser in SIHF and only does/says whatever guarantees him to keep this job at the SIHF. And why the heck was nobody stopping him bringing an under-average talented Aris Häfliger to Ottawa?!
And Marco Bayer is probably the biggest fake character since Kölliker. Havent heard one former U20 player saying a single positive word about this two-faced liar.
I have not made my opinion on Jenni yet, there are pros and cons, but the bigger question is: who else should be U20 coach?

 

[jonas2244]

This is no excuse for whatsoever but it's quite common in Swiss federations (take any sport) that knowing anyone is much more important than qualification.

 

[Speyer]

Celio is one of the too many brown noser in SIHF and only does/says whatever guarantees him to keep this job at the SIHF. And why the heck was nobody stopping him bringing an under-average talented Aris Häfliger to Ottawa?!
And Marco Bayer is probably the biggest fake character since Kölliker. Havent heard one former U20 player saying a single positive word about this two-faced liar.
I have not made my opinion on Jenni yet, there are pros and cons, but the bigger question is: who else should be U20 coach?

Well we could have had Paterlini who is doing a good job with what he has in Langnau. But Fischer and Weibel didn't like him so he got fired. And he got replaced by Bayer afterwards. This tells you all about under which angle the SIHF evaluates its potential coaches. There would probably be a better swiss coach than Jenni available every now and then. And they could easily find a better foreign coach if they actually wanted to and dedicate some money to the task. But they just dont. The sad part is that the press and the fandom dont care about junior hockey anways and often eat up Fischers semi-esoteric "swissness" and "wolf pack mentality" bullshit that he and Weibel utter to legitimate their policies too.

 

[Hinterland]

I've seen a lot of horrible coaching at those WJC's over the years...with Paterlini pretty much the lone exception. Still, Marcel Jenni is easily the dumbest of them all. A complete donkey.

He comes right back with the Muggli/Bünzli pairing that was horrible all tournament long and got caved in vs Slovakia shift after shift from start to finish.
Other funny changes include Häfliger coming in for Balestra who barely played vs Slovakia and Gredig coming back in for Jonah Neuenschwander. As if that's not enough, Gredig is gonna play in Graf's spot while Graf is gonna hold back Reber/Dorthe. Brilliant idea to put your best three Centers all on the same line. Also, if there's one player who shouldn't play with Dorthe/Reber it's Graf. Good player but skillwise definitely a step or two behind the rest of the forwards.

 

[Hinterland]

Well we could have had Paterlini who is doing a good job with what he has in Langnau. But Fischer and Weibel didn't like him so he got fired. And he got replaced by Bayer afterwards. This tells you all about under which angle the SIHF evaluates its potential coaches. There would probably be a better swiss coach than Jenni available every now and then. And they could easily find a better foreign coach if they actually wanted to and dedicate some money to the task. But they just dont. The sad part is that the press and the fandom dont care about junior hockey anways and often eat up Fischers semi-esoteric "swissness" and "wolf pack mentality" bullshit that he and Weibel utter to legitimate their policies too.

Wouldn't be a WJC without Mickey Mouse coaches behind the Swiss bench. If there's one tradition it's Switzerland having the worst coaching of the tournament. If it wouldn't be so sad for the kids having to play for those donkeys it would actually be really funny.

 

[Speyer]

I've seen a lot of horrible coaching at those WJC's over the years...with Paterlini pretty much the lone exception. Still, Marcel Jenni is easily the dumbest of them all. A complete donkey.

He comes right back with the Muggli/Bünzli pairing that was horrible all tournament long and got caved in vs Slovakia shift after shift from start to finish.
Other funny changes include Häfliger coming in for Balestra who barely played vs Slovakia and Gredig coming back in for Jonah Neuenschwander. As if that's not enough, Gredig is gonna play in Graf's spot while Graf is gonna hold back Reber/Dorthe. Brilliant idea to put your best three Centers all on the same line. Also, if there's one player who shouldn't play with Dorthe/Reber it's Graf. Good player but skillwise definitely a step or two behind the rest of the forwards.

I still think Bayer might be worse but that view is also influeced by his personality. And lets also not forget that Bayer never remotely had the same player material as Jenni has right now. Even if you look at some of his interviews its pretty obivous that Marcel is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Makes you almost nostalgic for the good old Wohlwend days. Actually not just almost.

 

[Hinterland]

I still think Bayer might be worse but that view is also influeced by his personality. And lets also not forget that Bayer never remotely had the same player material as Jenni has right now. Even if you look at some of his interviews its pretty obivous that Marcel is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Makes you almost nostalgic for the good old Wohlwend days. Actually not just almost.

Bayer was just a proxy but easily better than Jenni. Jenni had some very good teams (for Swiss standards) to work with but keeps on losing. He also got absolute elite goaltending. Last year from Beglieri, this year from both Neuenschwander and Kirsch. Many of the losses were Jenni's fault and his fault only because he simply got outcoached like vs Slovakia in game 2. Jenni kept on sending Bünzli/Muggli out as if nothing happened while the Slovakian coaches identified them as the weak links early on and kept on targeting them. This was pretty much the only reason why Switzerland lost the game. Both Johnson/Rhyn and Schneller/Sansonnens were never under any sort of pressure and almost always playing with possession up the ice. Balestra barely played. Jenni easily could have benched Muggli/Bünzli and play Balestra instead. He could have changed the pairings as well. He didn't even try to do something about the obvious problem in front of him. And he's now about to come out with the exact same pairing again. He's really the dumbest coach the SIHF ever had. Which is saying something. Quite the achievement.

 

[Speyer]

Bayer was just a proxy but easily better than Jenni. Jenni had some very good teams (for Swiss standards) to work with but keeps on losing. He also got absolute elite goaltending. Last year from Beglieri, this year from both Neuenschwander and Kirsch. Many of the losses were Jenni's fault and his fault only because he simply got outcoached like vs Slovakia in game 2.

Again my view was also based on Bayers personality and absolute lack of spine. Like when he just let Fischer take over the bench for a game in one of his WJC's. That stuff was ridiculous. And the fact that he (apparently) absolutely humiliated some of his junior players and screemed at them like a madman after losses.

So Jenni might be even slightly worse when it comes to roster selection, line composition and tactics (strategy/systems are dictated by Fischer anyways. That was one of the reasons that Paterlini was let go because he didn't want to comply with this and rightfully so). But all in all I think we can agree on that both are terrible coaches that didn't/won't help our junior hockey whatsoever to make ground on the other middle countries like Slovika and the Czechs.

 

[jonas2244]

What I heard about Bayer that beside the obvious missing tactical skills he's completly missing any social competence. And especially with a youth team this should be a core-skill for any coach.