WJC: 2025 Team Canada Roster Talk

[kyle44]

It’s a longstanding political issue with Misa, which is a shame because he’s such a good player and would be a great addition to the top 6 of this team

Has Canada ever had two 17-year olds in their top 6? I want Misa at camp as much as the next guy, but I think we need to be a bit more realistic on the impact of 17 year olds. I don't see Misa in the realm of McDavid, Crosby, Bedard (CHL level Bedard), or even Celebrini. The more likely outcome, IMO, would be a MacKinnon, Lafreniere, Toews, Byfield type of 17 year old tournament.

Most 17 year olds struggle at this level for good reason, it is definitely a notch above CHL competition (albeit less so without Russia).

 

[FourQuarters]

Canada just didn't have a great group to choose from last year. There was obviously enough talent to win, but it was below average for Canada. Then you had very stupid coaching decisions that exacerbated the issues. Allard wasn't even bad last year, but a guy like Minten was completely overexposed by the coaching staff and how he was used and the goaltending situation was completely botched.

Based on last year I did think that Canada would lean toward size, but that isn't even really the case this year or you'd see Greentree and Sennecke at the camp at least. Salmond is sadly an ingrained bureaucrat at this point but Anholt should be long gone. Yakemchuk should be at camp, Hage, Misa, Greentree, Sennecke, Boisvert etc. should all be there too.

2023 is one of the deepest draft class especially on the forward groups in recent years… it's just Bedard and Benson didn't come, but Hockey Canada didn't choose those guys. I would say there were more "Yakemchuk" and "Misa" sitting at home last year.

 

[kyle44]

2023 is one of the deepest draft class especially on the forward groups in recent years… it's just Bedard and Benson didn't come, but Hockey Canada didn't choose those guys. I would say there were more "Yakemchuk" and "Misa" sitting at home last year.

Not even close. This was the 2004 birth year World Junior, which is an awful age group for Canada. Setting aside Bedard, Benson and Fantilli, who Canada couldn't choose, I don't think taking Heidt, Cristall , Nadeau or Barlow would've moved the needle much, if at all. Barlow couldn't even crack the camp roster for the 2005 birth year group.

You win this tournament with the best 19 year olds. You can have some good 17-18 year old players mixed in, but if you're relying on them heavily, you're often setting yourself up for a loss, and Canada's 19-year old group (2004s) just wasn't good enough unfortunately.

 

[FourQuarters]

Not even close. This was the 2004 birth year World Junior, which is an awful age group for Canada. Setting aside Bedard, Benson and Fantilli, who Canada couldn't choose, I don't think taking Heidt, Cristall , Nadeau or Barlow would've moved the needle much, if at all. Barlow couldn't even crack the camp roster for the 2005 birth year group.

You win this tournament with the best 19 year olds. You can have some good 17-18 year old players mixed in, but if you're relying on them heavily, you're often setting yourself up for a loss, and Canada's 19-year old group (2004s) just wasn't good enough unfortunately.

Bedard won it for Canada when he was 16yo, and they didn't take Firkus.

 

[BondraTime]

Bedard won it for Canada when he was 16yo, and they didn't take Firkus.

McTavish and Zellweger as 19 year olds (due to it being in August) won it when Bedard was 16, Bedard was probably the 5th/6th best player in his 16 year old year

Bedard won it for Canada in his 17 year old season.

 

[kyle44]

Bedard won it for Canada when he was 16yo, and they didn't take Firkus.

Did he? I think maybe McTavish, Johnson and Zellweger would have something to say about that. I think maybe you're referring to his 17-year old world junior where, while he was the best player in the tournament, he didn't have a point in the gold medal game, which was dominated by 19 year olds. Even if we pretend Bedard 'won' the 2023 tournament by himself, who from the list of snubs was capable of putting up 23 points in seven games at last years tournament?

Am I saying that you can never win relying on 17-18 year olds? No (just ask Finland during the Laine/Puljujarvi year), but more often or not you need your 19 year old group to be strong.

 

[JackSlater]

2023 is one of the deepest draft class especially on the forward groups in recent years… it's just Bedard and Benson didn't come, but Hockey Canada didn't choose those guys. I would say there were more "Yakemchuk" and "Misa" sitting at home last year.

Not really, there just wasn't a lot to choose from. Even this year there are way more high end 18 year olds than 19 year olds, but the number of 19 year olds is fine. Disappointing defence last year as well in terms of moving the puck.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Has Canada ever had two 17-year olds in their top 6

No, and that’s a fair point of contention, but I also cannot recall the last time two 17 year olds were 1 and 2 in CHL scoring. I get that Martone is probably viewed in a higher esteem than Misa by hockey Canada because of Chemistry with several players that will likely be on the roster and size, but I would rather have Misa there than him if we’re talking purely undrafted played

 

[LDN]

It’s a longstanding political issue with Misa, which is a shame because he’s such a good player and would be a great addition to the top 6 of this team

What is the issue?

 

[Statsy]

No, and that’s a fair point of contention, but I also cannot recall the last time two 17 year olds were 1 and 2 in CHL scoring. I get that Martone is probably viewed in a higher esteem than Misa by hockey Canada because of Chemistry with several players that will likely be on the roster and size, but I would rather have Misa there than him if we’re talking purely undrafted played

Not to mention we’re bringing in Schaefer, who is even younger, and once again more dynamic than his older counterparts. This is definitely a different animal to the teams that Canada usually sends. Imagine how good our team would look if all these guys were allowed to come back as 19 year olds!

 

[Mathieukferland]

What is the issue?

As I’ve said before in here this is just second hand information so take it for what it’s worth, but after he was initially going to be denied ES he tried to leverage threatening going to the Steel/Michigan to gain ES. And apparently they weren’t happy his brother didn’t get invited to the summer camp

 

[NordiquesForeva]

View attachment 942222View attachment 942223Interesting insight from Drummondville’s Denis Gauthier, whose son is in selection camp and whose coach in Drummondville Sylvain Favreau is on the coaching staff.


I harshly disagree, but he said the conclusion that Hockey Canada management came to as to why the team last year failed was because they built a team built too much on talent and not enough grit/sand paper.

I don’t know if they watched the same tournament that I did last year, but the main issue was they couldn’t score and were gutted of depth scoring by bringing players like Minten and Allard. That and not riding Celebrini hard enough.


I forget who said this on this thread, but whoever said that Dave Cameron would bring 12 Owen Allards if he could, Pat yourself on the back, because you had it spot on with the management’s mindset

That was me, and I stand by that statement as a 67s fan. Cameron has his shortcomings as an OHL coach imo, one of them being an unwillingness to properly utilize/unleash highly skilled d-men. I was a little surprised, but not very surprised honestly, to see Parekh and Yakemchuk omitted from the camp list. I don't think he would be able to utilize them properly, and probably self-aware enough recognizes this. Yes, Parekh has since been added but is likely on his way out as the first cut.

Cameron is very old-school in terms of his personality and there is talk around Ottawa of him having trouble connecting with young players nowadays, particularly star players. I do think he has a certain type of player in mind that fits onto his teams and that knows he'll be able to deploy and utilize how he wants, and it could very well be that Sennecke, for instance, doesn't fit that type.

Overall, Cameron's coaching abilities are better suited to maintaining a consistent, competitive CHL-level team over the full course of a CHL-type life cycle. His teams are generally well-prepared and play a little above their talent as a team. I think he's had trouble getting his teams over the hurdle in terms of championship contention. I also think he's shown that he has a difficult time adapting quickly and appropriately when things go against his teams, in terms of bad matchups, momentum swings, and being outcoached. Those things probably go hand in hand.

Overall I expect some surprises in terms of the final roster but on talent alone, this will be a really good team even if there are some surprise inclusions/omissions.

 

[ORRFForever]

Exactly. We already have far more young guys in camp than usual. It's a testament to some strong age groups coming up.

Yup.

The pressure is really going to be on the coaching and HC to win in Ottawa - even more than usual. If they don't, given the decisions they've made. the backlash will be insane - and well deserved.

 

[ORRFForever]

That was me, and I stand by that statement as a 67s fan. Cameron has his shortcomings as an OHL coach imo, one of them being an unwillingness to properly utilize/unleash highly skilled d-men. I was a little surprised, but not very surprised honestly, to see Parekh and Yakemchuk omitted from the camp list. I don't think he would be able to utilize them properly, and probably self-aware enough recognizes this. Yes, Parekh has since been added but is likely on his way out as the first cut.

Cameron is very old-school in terms of his personality and there is talk around Ottawa of him having trouble connecting with young players nowadays, particularly star players. I do think he has a certain type of player in mind that fits onto his teams and that knows he'll be able to deploy and utilize how he wants, and it could very well be that Sennecke, for instance, doesn't fit that type.

Overall, Cameron's coaching abilities are better suited to maintaining a consistent, competitive CHL-level team over the full course of a CHL-type life cycle. His teams are generally well-prepared and play a little above their talent as a team. I think he's had trouble getting his teams over the hurdle in terms of championship contention. I also think he's shown that he has a difficult time adapting quickly and appropriately when things go against his teams, in terms of bad matchups, momentum swings, and being outcoached. Those things probably go hand in hand.

Overall I expect some surprises in terms of the final roster but on talent alone, this will be a really good team even if there are some surprise inclusions/omissions.

Cameron blew it in 2011. He needed a literal miracle to win in 2022. Why bring him back? There can't be a shortage of people willing to coach Team Canada.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

Cameron blew it in 2011. He needed a literal miracle to win in 2022. Why bring him back? There can't be a shortage of people willing to coach Team Canada.

Long-standing OHL head coach, very loyal to Hockey Canada, head coach of an OHL team that's had some decent success in recent years, coaches the OHL team in the host city, Hockey Canada wants to send him out on top as he's 68 years old and this is probably his final gig.

 

[ORRFForever]

Long-standing OHL head coach, very loyal to Hockey Canada, head coach of an OHL team that's had some decent success in recent years, coaches the OHL team in the host city, Hockey Canada wants to send him out on top as he's 68 years old and this is probably his final gig.

Fair enough. Let's just hope he wins this one easily.

 

[hockey20000]

As I’ve said before in here this is just second hand information so take it for what it’s worth, but after he was initially going to be denied ES he tried to leverage threatening going to the Steel/Michigan to gain ES. And apparently they weren’t happy his brother didn’t get invited to the summer camp

is his brother even good enough to been invited?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

is his brother even good enough to been invited?

No, but federations sometimes make concessions to entice better siblings. The U.S. did this a couple of years ago when they invited Luke Tuch to the senior World's team in an effort to get Alex Tuch.

 

[hockey20000]

how bad is cowan hurt? he was gonna be on the team for sure also damn it

 

[Dack]

is his brother even good enough to been invited?

No in that Luke Misa isn't good enough that he was a huge omission or anything. Yes in the sense that there were worse players at the summer showcase than him.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

how bad is cowan hurt? he was gonna be on the team for sure also damn it

He got rocked with an open ice hit a few days ago. Sounds like he will be fine for the tournament but holding him out of camp due to him being a lock anyways.

 

[newfy]

How do you feel about Quentin Musty?

I'm not dialed into USA hockey politics as much, but I know Musty is a guy who fell in the draft for a variety of concerns but that he's a really good player.

I think Sennecke at 3rd overall is a better player and doesn't have enough concerns for him to fall in the draft. Mustys playoffs have also been underwhelming

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm not dialed into USA hockey politics as much, but I know Musty is a guy who fell in the draft for a variety of concerns but that he's a really good player.

I think Sennecke at 3rd overall is a better player and doesn't have enough concerns for him to fall in the draft. Mustys playoffs have also been underwhelming

Sennecke doesn't have the effort issues that Musty does but what I'm getting at is that Sennecke doesn't do much off puck. If they're taking him, it better be in a top-6 role.

 

[JackSlater]

I think that part of the issue for Sennecke is that, according to what McKenzie has said a few times, they are viewing Ritchie as a RW on this team. So not only does he not get a "chemistry" boost, but his regular centre becomes part of his competition for a roster spot.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Good to see them invite Sennecke. At least undid one silly mistake for now.