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2025 STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS

Marner has 12 points in 11 games so far, and his career playoff PPG is almost spot on with Marian Hossa's. He's not a Zetterberg or Yzerman or Fedorov who crazily ups his game in big moments, but he's not the blackhole he's being made out to be.

I think the problem is that he's not really a goal scorer. He has a shot, but over the past five years he's 63rd in shots taken by forwards. In the playoffs he's 52nd. He's a facilitator we could probably run a line thru if we are leaning on centers who can't fill that role, but because of that he doesn't look to force his own shot into play. Considering we don't have a highend offensive center, this could work in our favor at getting a second scoring line up and running. I could see and Debrincat being an upgraded Debrincat/Kane combo.
 
102pts alongside Matthews. The math has already been done. On the Wings Marner would be right around a ppg player. This, compounded by the fact that he disappears in the playoffs and will make more than 4mil more than our captain, is alarming and does not warrant more salary than Mackinnon. Do not wanna become the Leafs 2.0 or the early 90s Wings again. That is what you are headed for. The only thing this signing would accomplish, is an earlier playoff appearance, but with a perennial choker at the helm.

what math? he had 18 more points than anyone else on the team, had a higher points per game than Matthews did, and put up 22 points in the 15 games he played that Matthews didn't play in
 
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Misplaced retort, since I would take Nylander in a heartbeat. He delivers in the playoffs. Of the "Core Four" Marner has by far the lowest impact on high leverage games. The Bedard comparison is nonsensical, since he has never been to the postseason. Marner has had countless chances to redeem himself, to show he is not a perimeter p***y that always disappears. FAILED. 13mil for that? Nope. Lucky, cuz we are not getting him anyway.
FWIW I really think Matthews is a much bigger culprit of this than Marner. Marner does his thing like always. Lots of high skill, high risk plays that occasionally come back to bite him but lead to chances for his team the vast majority of the time. Sure he doesn't mix it up in the corners or in front of the net, but that's supposed to be someone else's job.

I think if you surround him with playoff performers, he'd be fine. He could transport the puck for them and let others do the heavy part. Toronto's entire team is weak-willed and disappears come playoff time. Marner's decreased production lines up very well with the decreased scoring rate of the team as a whole. The whole organization can't play playoff hockey. He draws coverage and sets up his teammates whom instead of taking their space to drive the net send weak-sauce writers at unscreened goalies from the outside. He's the set up guy and he does that just fine in the playoffs. Throw him on a line with prime Franzen and Zetterberg and I bet you his playoff production would go up compared to his regular season stats rather than down.

Matthews just sees his game totally deteriorate. He normally boxes people out using his wide frame to buy space for his draggy wrist shot release. Come playoff time guys just body him and then stuff the shot. He doesn't push through it. Marner sets him up on the power play just like he does all regular season but then Matthews kills the chances.

Now I think there's a real question as to whether Detroit is a team that can get the most out of Marner. On one hand I think that Raymond, DBC and Kasper are feisty workers. I think MBN has the makings of a perfect complement to Marner. I think our big defenseman would do good work protecting him.

On the other Raymond, Marner, and Debrincat are all smaller dudes. I'm not sure if we want that profile to represent 3/4 of our top 6 wingers. Furthermore right now we have Kane and Berggren whom are also smaller, lighter guys. Most of our current big guys like Rasmussen are gentle giants. Larkin and our leadership seem to crumble in the big moments just like Marner's Maple Leaf teammates. Our bottom half of the lineup is complete and utter garbage, failing to contribute scoring, defensive prowess, physicality, leadership, or really anything. There's a lot of reasons to think that we'd be putting Marner in the same position to fail that has ruined his tenure in Toronto.

Personally, I'd be happy if we brought in Marner as he represents a piece that we desperately need and lack--high end skill. We'd need to recognize his flaws and try to build the right team around him.
 
Whatever goes on in Toronto is amazing to me. It's not just one player, it's the whole team. Domi, all the guys they traded for/brought in.

The goalies, even though he got lite up last night are the only ones playing over their heads in Toronto.

That being said, you said it best; Red Wings can't pass up talent like that. We gotta get to the show first before we start cherry picking and offing guys that can't perform. Guys adjust/learn etc too. Pluck one of the core four, place them somewhere else and I think they'd at least be average with a chance to be a real performer next to different guys/team. I'd easily take Auston Matthews.

Still sign Marner too but maybe his number now is ALOT closer to 12/11 million vs 13 plus.

I’d be amazed if Marner gets a deal under 13 even after this playoffs, for all the positives people mention.

For me I guess I should’ve clarified it’s not like I’m turning my nose up at Marner just because of the rep he has in the playoffs. It’s that rep for 7 years and UFA prices.

It’s rare that a player with his production is signed as a UFA and people say “well that seems like a fair price.”

But I guess it’s also easy for me to pass up because I don’t think there’s a shot he’s coming here.
 
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Yeah, you are aiming at making the playoffs, which he'd help with, no doubt. I am aiming at winning the Cup, which he'd make almost impossible with his Hodini act in the deciding games.
I’ll worry about his performance in the playoffs if/when we make it there.

At the rate we’re going it’ll be a few more seasons before this team is ready to make it - and likely a few more after that if this team can actually win a round.
 
102pts alongside Matthews. The math has already been done. On the Wings Marner would be right around a ppg player. This, compounded by the fact that he disappears in the playoffs and will make more than 4mil more than our captain, is alarming and does not warrant more salary than Mackinnon. Do not wanna become the Leafs 2.0 or the early 90s Wings again. That is what you are headed for. The only thing this signing would accomplish, is an earlier playoff appearance, but with a perennial choker at the helm.
You should prepare yourself for us to becoming Buffalo part deux.

For all the knob stroking people do about our prospects means little to nothing - more run of the mill borderline 2nd/3rd line forwards and #4-#6 Dmen…That won’t be much of a help when trying to make the postseason.

All we got to lose is cap space and at this point in time - who gives a f*** if he makes more than Larkin? At least it’ll keep DBoss quiet about Yzerman not trying to improve the club.
 
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Whatever goes on in Toronto is amazing to me. It's not just one player, it's the whole team. Domi, all the guys they traded for/brought in.

The goalies, even though he got lite up last night are the only ones playing over their heads in Toronto.

That being said, you said it best; Red Wings can't pass up talent like that. We gotta get to the show first before we start cherry picking and offing guys that can't perform. Guys adjust/learn etc too. Pluck one of the core four, place them somewhere else and I think they'd at least be average with a chance to be a real performer next to different guys/team. I'd easily take Auston Matthews.

Still sign Marner too but maybe his number now is ALOT closer to 12/11 million vs 13 plus.
Dating myself here, but former Leaf and member of the Hockey HoF Larry Murphy was chastised in Tronna…He seemed to do alright after leaving :nod:
 
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I don't have a strong feeling on Marner in particular, but I have to imagine the Detroit sports media and playoff pressure is different than the Leafs. Maybe a change of scenery helps? Not ideal to run with "hopes and maybes" I understand but it is something that popped into my head. Maybe cope too I suppose. Marner represents something I feel the Wings need to do, and the sentiment is common, take a swing. You can't hit a homer without swinging. Marner doesn't have to be the specific swing but we need a swing somewhere.
 
SDP just gave some f***in shocking stats: Marner has played in 19 games 5,6 and 7 between 2019 and 2025. He has 0 goals and 6 assists in those games.
Jeez, that is some impressive finessing of a sample size to push a narrative.

Only playoffs, but not all playoffs, and not just recent years, but not all years either.
 
Most Leafs are going to have awful game 5-6-7 stats.

I'm not saying the questions about him are wrong but man he gets the full brunt of it. Matthews has looked like he is on vacation for a long while now.
 
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FWIW I really think Matthews is a much bigger culprit of this than Marner. Marner does his thing like always. Lots of high skill, high risk plays that occasionally come back to bite him but lead to chances for his team the vast majority of the time. Sure he doesn't mix it up in the corners or in front of the net, but that's supposed to be someone else's job.

Personally, I'd be happy if we brought in Marner as he represents a piece that we desperately need and lack--high end skill. We'd need to recognize his flaws and try to build the right team around him.
All of this and the stuff in the middle too. I like Marner on this team long term because we lack skill overall but Yzerman has done a good job getting prospects that can fill that gritty role alongside more skilled players. Marner is a facilitator, so you have to have him paired with playoff types to make his game work in the playoffs. He isn't going to dominate on his own but he will help a unit dominate if he has the shooter and net front guys to play with. He could also due to shoot more, but for a lot of playmakers this starts to come at about this point in their careers (see a guys like Datsyuk & Kane).

I think MBN and Kasper are the exact kind of guys that could make a Marner really effective. They are guys that create space and dig in along the boards and in front of the net. MBN also has a really solid shot too. I could see a DBC-Kasper-Marner line being really solid next year. DBC is an effective net guy along with being a sniper. Kasper is great boards/ net guy. Marner would be the facilitator while also being a significant upgrade on Kane defensively. If we can get a defense that can actually support the puck I think that line would be deadly on the breakout too. We need another vision guy because we really don't have many in the system period, and they are usually guys you need to be in the top 5/10 to get. (like Ammo is the only real vision guy I see in the system, maybe Buch too).

If you have a good defense you can overcome lack of size by having speed and a willingness to go into harder areas. You just can't be slow, small, and weak. Again this is predicated by having a defense that can move the puck because speed can't be utilized well if you can't hit the other teams blue line at full speed. You need to be able to beat guys to the puck so it isn't a purely physical battle along the boards. You want breakout attacks and winning forechecks you need players on the back end who can move the puck efficiently.

Long term I'm totally pro a lineup like if prospects continue on trends or do better:
MBN-Larkin-Ray
DBC/Buch- Kasper- Marner
Soderblom-Danielson-Ammo/Buch/etc
Other-Ras-Mazur

New- Seider
Ed- ASP
Aljo-Antjo (Just to make Daniels lose his mind lol)
 
All of this and the stuff in the middle too. I like Marner on this team long term because we lack skill overall but Yzerman has done a good job getting prospects that can fill that gritty role alongside more skilled players. Marner is a facilitator, so you have to have him paired with playoff types to make his game work in the playoffs. He isn't going to dominate on his own but he will help a unit dominate if he has the shooter and net front guys to play with. He could also due to shoot more, but for a lot of playmakers this starts to come at about this point in their careers (see a guys like Datsyuk & Kane).

I think MBN and Kasper are the exact kind of guys that could make a Marner really effective. They are guys that create space and dig in along the boards and in front of the net. MBN also has a really solid shot too. I could see a DBC-Kasper-Marner line being really solid next year. DBC is an effective net guy along with being a sniper. Kasper is great boards/ net guy. Marner would be the facilitator while also being a significant upgrade on Kane defensively. If we can get a defense that can actually support the puck I think that line would be deadly on the breakout too. We need another vision guy because we really don't have many in the system period, and they are usually guys you need to be in the top 5/10 to get. (like Ammo is the only real vision guy I see in the system, maybe Buch too).

If you have a good defense you can overcome lack of size by having speed and a willingness to go into harder areas. You just can't be slow, small, and weak. Again this is predicated by having a defense that can move the puck because speed can't be utilized well if you can't hit the other teams blue line at full speed. You need to be able to beat guys to the puck so it isn't a purely physical battle along the boards. You want breakout attacks and winning forechecks you need players on the back end who can move the puck efficiently.

Long term I'm totally pro a lineup like if prospects continue on trends or do better:
MBN-Larkin-Ray
DBC/Buch- Kasper- Marner
Soderblom-Danielson-Ammo/Buch/etc
Other-Ras-Mazur

New- Seider
Ed- ASP
Aljo-Antjo (Just to make Daniels lose his mind lol)
I think a lineup like that could have success. I still have the worries that I outlined with it, but it's the kind of thing where I'd be really happy to pencil that in as the lineup of the future with the understanding that we'd likely need to make changes along the way. I think we'd end up having an early playoff exit or two and then decide to make a trade to fix whatever doesn't quite work out. Let's say that Kasper can't carry the second line's physicality alone and we continue to shrink in the big games. Then it's not hard to imagine a trade moving out a first, DBC and Ammo/Buch for a physical top 6 winger that's known for being clutch and providing strong leadership. It is hard to imagine finding too many more opportunities to bring in a 100 point player. At the end of the day, talent still wins out, and I don't think we can afford to be too picky about how we get it.
 
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Talent doesn't win out ... talent mixed with grit and determination carries the day. Give me 20 guys who'll do anything, sacrifice anything to win.

You can win with less talent than the other side has.

If top talent would win out, the Leafs would never lose. Their top 4 are "better" than anyone else's when it comes to the 100 points or capable of players.
 
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Talent doesn't win out ... talent mixed with grit and determination carries the day. Give me 20 guys who'll do anything, sacrifice anything to win.

If top talent would win out, the Leafs would never lose. Their top 4 are "better" than anyone else's when it comes to the 100 points or capable of players.

This. The big problem with the Core 4 is they sometimes forget that hockey is played at both ends of the ice,

Look no further than the brutal pass Marner sends on Florida's 3rd goal. And then he compounds it by forgetting to backcheck. Maybe that can be coached out of him, but that is not a $13M+ player.

 
This. The big problem with the Core 4 is they sometimes forget that hockey is played at both ends of the ice,

Look no further than the brutal pass Marner sends on Florida's 3rd goal. And then he compounds it by forgetting to backcheck. Maybe that can be coached out of him, but that is not a $13M+ player.



Wait, you don't like the not looking spin-o-rama backhand cross ice pass at your own blueline?!?!
 
This. The big problem with the Core 4 is they sometimes forget that hockey is played at both ends of the ice,

Look no further than the brutal pass Marner sends on Florida's 3rd goal. And then he compounds it by forgetting to backcheck. Maybe that can be coached out of him, but that is not a $13M+ player.


Yeah, Boqvist was a healthy scratch in at least games 3 and 4.

The guy's probably as fast a skater as anyone on either side, and he fit in great with Reinhart and Barkov. PK'd ... let's get this guy in a Wings uniform for the bottom 6.
 
Marner seriously is braindead. Leafs on the PP at the end of the 2nd period of an elimination game, he decides the best option is to take a wrist shot from the blueline with no one in front of the goalie.

The last game he did the same thing twice and both times it ended up getting blocked and going the other way for a breakaway.

How do you put up that many points in the regular season and then exhibit that kind of decision making in the postseason?
 
Marner seriously is braindead. Leafs on the PP at the end of the 2nd period of an elimination game, he decides the best option is to take a wrist shot from the blueline with no one in front of the goalie.

The last game he did the same thing twice and both times it ended up getting blocked and going the other way for a breakaway.

How do you put up that many points in the regular season and then exhibit that kind of decision making in the postseason?
Please stop bashing our future super star of this team. He just had an incredible pass to Matthews.
 

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