2025 Offseason Talk

[sooni]

wild to consider a team that goes to three straight WCFs as terrible. it's not like they had one lucky run. they've proven they can win in the playoffs.

this whole mindset of win it all or you suck is absurd. imagine approaching your life that way. you'd disown your kids before they turn one. hell, you wouldn't stick in a relationship for more than a few days. restaurant isn't the best of all of em? shutter the doors.

no freaking nuance. feels like the way ppl are talking about politics these days

That mindsett will never take people at top. They should go all in for Stanley Cup as long Rantanen and most of the core are at their prime age.

 

[roryjones]

wild to consider a team that goes to three straight WCFs as terrible. it's not like they had one lucky run. they've proven they can win in the playoffs.

this whole mindset of win it all or you suck is absurd. imagine approaching your life that way. you'd disown your kids before they turn one. hell, you wouldn't stick in a relationship for more than a few days. restaurant isn't the best of all of em? shutter the doors.

no freaking nuance. feels like the way ppl are talking about politics these days

I don’t think people think it is terrible the got to 3 straight WCF. I bet people think it’s terrible how they played in the WCF all 3 years but not terrible they got there. I think it’s more of looking for ways to improve. I don’t think tearing it down makes sense. I’m not even a fan of moving Robertson as the value coming back I don’t think will be as good as Robo.

I think it’s more of a mindset of looking to improve to get over the WCF hump and win a cup. But there are some big holes to fill. Speed and physicality is needed. RHD is a clear weakness.

 

[Kipper 17]

That mindsett will never take people at top. They should go all in for Stanley Cup as long Rantanen and most of the core are at their prime age.

LMAO you have a problem with the mindset of "this team has had a lot of success, lets try to improve upon that rather than blowing it up"?

 

[Troy McClure]

wild to consider a team that goes to three straight WCFs as terrible. it's not like they had one lucky run. they've proven they can win in the playoffs.

this whole mindset of win it all or you suck is absurd. imagine approaching your life that way. you'd disown your kids before they turn one. hell, you wouldn't stick in a relationship for more than a few days. restaurant isn't the best of all of em? shutter the doors.

no freaking nuance. feels like the way ppl are talking about politics these days

This team doesn’t suck, but it’s also not on the same level as the two playing for the Cup.

I think it’s both possible to be happy about an overall very successful season while also trying to make changes to improve things. This is what the offseason is for.

But I agree that I don’t see the point of shitting on guys. Benn’s terrible play isn’t about effort or desire. He’s just old. I wouldn’t bring him back becaus I don’t think he’s worth the cap space, but I’m not mad at the guy. Power forwards break down and age neuters us all. Lindell not being a good passer doesn’t negate what he otherwise does very well.

What I find frustrating is the push in the other direction by fans who want to keep things 95% the same. I don’t get this love of the status quo. Yeah, making changes might make the team worse, but we know keeping it together isn’t going to make them better. Trying something new is going to come with risk. That’s part of sports.

 

[dalness]

wild to consider a team that goes to three straight WCFs as terrible. it's not like they had one lucky run. they've proven they can win in the playoffs.

this whole mindset of win it all or you suck is absurd. imagine approaching your life that way. you'd disown your kids before they turn one. hell, you wouldn't stick in a relationship for more than a few days. restaurant isn't the best of all of em? shutter the doors.

no freaking nuance. feels like the way ppl are talking about politics these days

It’s because since 2020 it’s been SCF and WCF essentially. All that’s left is a win. There’s no more let’s make the playoffs and win a round etc. So people have the mentality if they can’t win it all they suck

 

[Kipper 17]

This team doesn’t suck, but it’s also not on the same level as the two playing for the Cup.

I think it’s both possible to be happy about an overall very successful season while also trying to make changes to improve things. This is what the offseason is for.

But I agree that I don’t see the point of shitting on guys. Benn’s terrible play isn’t about effort or desire. He’s just old. I wouldn’t bring him back becaus I don’t think he’s worth the cap space, but I’m not mad at the guy. Power forwards break down and age neuters us all. Lindell not being a good passer doesn’t negate what he otherwise does very well.

What I find frustrating is the push in the other direction by fans who want to keep things 95% the same. I don’t get this love of the status quo. Yeah, making changes might make the team worse, but we know keeping it together isn’t going to make them better. Trying something new is going to come with risk. That’s part of sports.

Is anyone really arguing to keep things 95% the same? That almost never happens any year.

 

[sooni]

LMAO you have a problem with the mindset of "this team has had a lot of success, lets try to improve upon that rather than blowing it up"?

Problem here is that they can't stay under cap without doing something. Another thing is that going back again and expecting different result with same team is not logical.

 

[M88K]

Agreed. I thought the hyperbole would have calmed down by now but some still think this team needs a massive overhaul. Three WCF finals appearances in a row and a lot of the teams we beat in round 1 and 2 were VERY good teams, some of them were cup contenders.

Team needs more speed and physicality. So, we need some retooling no doubt but "massive overhaul", calm down with that nonsense.

ALSO, Esa is NOT the problem. I agree his pairing was bad against the Oilers but PDB should have adjusted the D pairs in that series and he did not. Esa is an excellent defensive defender and PKer with limitations. Limitations that can be mitigated by playing him with a puck moving D against teams that can exploit his limitations. I can't believe I even have to type this.

They do need to overhaul the bottom portion of the forward group and fix the blue line.

Nobody is saying let's move on from Rantanen, Johnston, Heiskanen, Harley, Bichsel, Bourque and Oetter.

It's let the old declining UFAs go (Benn, Dadonov,Granlund,Duchene, Ceci)
Get rid of the liabilities
(Marchment, Dumba lyubushkin)

And supplement the core that's here. With faster players/physical players.

We should be looking at going into the season with

Bourque-Hintz-Rantanen
X(Robo/trade)-Johnston-Seguin
X-Steel-x
Back-x-x

Harley-Heiskanen
Bichsel-x
Lindell-Lundkvist


Instead, especially if DeBoer is sticking around, we're looking at the following

Granny-Hintz-Rantanen
X(Robo/trade)-Johnston-Seguin
Benn/Marchment-Bourque-x
Marchment/Benn-Steel-Back

Harley-Heiskanen
Lindell-Lyubushkin
Bichsel- x/Nils/Petro
It's essentially running it back +/- Robo.
They need to get faster, and some physical edge but keep 10 of the same 12 forwards and hope those 2 Xs bring enough of that to make up for the rest of the roster?

 

[Kipper 17]

Problem here is that they can't stay under cap without doing something. Another thing is that going back again and expecting different result with same team is not logical.

I am not saying do nothing. I don't think anyone is.

 

[Evanwill]

Agreed. I thought the hyperbole would have calmed down by now but some still think this team needs a massive overhaul. Three WCF finals appearances in a row and a lot of the teams we beat in round 1 and 2 were VERY good teams, some of them were cup contenders.

Team needs more speed and physicality. So, we need some retooling no doubt but "massive overhaul", calm down with that nonsense.

ALSO, Esa is NOT the problem. I agree his pairing was bad against the Oilers but PDB should have adjusted the D pairs in that series and he did not. Esa is an excellent defensive defender and PKer with limitations. Limitations that can be mitigated by playing him with a puck moving D against teams that can exploit his limitations. I can't believe I even have to type this.

Edit: Starting to notice a lot of the overly negative opinions on here seem to be from people who only remember the WCF. We beat two excellent teams before that.

Perhaps the coaching staff recognizes that Miro and Harley are at their best when they have a partner to play off of. Someone that can skate and move the puck so they can in turn play some offense. If you staple one of Lindell or Ceci to them, a byproduct of that is not getting the most out of your top two defenders.

Edit: I don't dislike Lindell. However, I believe he is far too expensive for what he is.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

wild to consider a team that goes to three straight WCFs as terrible. it's not like they had one lucky run. they've proven they can win in the playoffs.

It's not terrible, but it has many holes and not good enough to win it all. If a sports team is only there to win consolation prizes, then it better not exist to compete. It IS about winning it all.

this whole mindset of win it all or you suck is absurd. imagine approaching your life that way. you'd disown your kids before they turn one. hell, you wouldn't stick in a relationship for more than a few days. restaurant isn't the best of all of em? shutter the doors.

no freaking nuance. feels like the way ppl are talking about politics these days

FFS, this is such a shitty comparison! We are talking about sports and athletes- a business where people DO get fired, demoted, bought-out, etc., if they don't perform. This obviously does not apply to my own kids cos Dallas Stars, Jim Nill, PDB aren’t my kids or my daddies. I am fully capable of making a distinction between the two. Why can't you?

 

[Kipper 17]

They do need to overhaul the bottom portion of the forward group and fix the blue line.

Nobody is saying let's move on from Rantanen, Johnston, Heiskanen, Harley, Bichsel, Bourque and Oetter.

It's let the old declining UFAs go (Benn, Dadonov,Granlund,Duchene, Ceci)
Get rid of the liabilities
(Marchment, Dumba lyubushkin)

And supplement the core that's here. With faster players/physical players.

We should be looking at going into the season with

Bourque-Hintz-Rantanen
X(Robo/trade)-Johnston-Seguin
X-Steel-x
Back-x-x

Harley-Heiskanen
Bichsel-x
Lindell-Lundkvist


Instead, especially if DeBoer is sticking around, we're looking at the following

Granny-Hintz-Rantanen
X(Robo/trade)-Johnston-Seguin
Benn/Marchment-Bourque-x
Marchment/Benn-Steel-Back

Harley-Heiskanen
Lindell-Lyubushkin
Bichsel- x/Nils/Petro
It's essentially running it back +/- Robo.
They need to get faster, and some physical edge but keep 10 of the same 12 forwards and hope those 2 Xs bring enough of that to make up for the rest of the roster?

I agree with almost all of this. I don't view letting vets with expiring contracts walk as a massive overhaul though. Maybe its semantics but some people have a "sky is falling" attitude and need to chill.

I'd like to keep Granny if he takes a discount but the rest of the UFAs you listed, I agree can walk.

We have some great pieces and we should build around them. Bottom 6 needs more physicality and speed. Top 6 needs more speed which I why I think we should trade Robo, although trading someone that talented is always scary. Major retool vs minor overhaul, call it what you want, people need to chill.

Firing Nill is dumb.

 

[Kipper 17]

Perhaps the coaching staff recognizes that Miro and Harley are at their best when they have a partner to play off of. Someone that can skate and move the puck so they can in turn play some offense. If you staple one of Lindell or Ceci to them, a byproduct of that is not getting the most out of your top two defenders.

Edit: I don't dislike Lindell. However, I believe he is far too expensive for what he is.

Maybe you're right about the Miro and Harley stuff but its the coaching staffs job to weigh the pros and cons of these options and I think they got that wrong in the WCF. Hard to argue they got it right...

Lindell is paid just fine, especially with the cap increasing. If we moved him, we would miss him so hard and so fast.

 

[Azzuri]

Why are we debating Lindell? Lindell is perfectly fine with a competent puck mover on his pair. He's not perfect but removing him doesn't make us better right now.

This team need more good D-men, not less. Look at Edmonton's defensive depth this year and their focus on moving the puck vs "clearing the net." We need more NHL caliber puck moving D-men. Guys like Walman, Roy, Jones were all good pickups for their teams. Too bad our front office are dinosaurs and don't value these things.

 

[eartotheground]

It's not terrible, but it has many holes and not good enough to win it all. If a sports team is only there to win consolation prizes, then it better not exist to compete. It IS about winning it all.



FFS, this is such a shitty comparison! We are talking about sports and athletes- a business where people DO get fired, demoted, bought-out, etc., if they don't perform. This obviously does not apply to my own kids cos Dallas Stars, Jim Nill, PDB aren’t my kids or my daddies. I am fully capable of making a distinction between the two. Why can't you?

if you think the only thing sports are about is the ultimate championship your fandom is gonna be miserable, but hey, to each their own

EDIT: to be clear, i'm not saying don't try to improve the team. i'm not saying the team or FO is perfect. i'm saying they are factually in the top tier of teams. top 4 of 30 for 3 years straight. and for the most part highly competitive over the last 10 years. that's worth appreciating. it's also worth being careful you don't throw out everything and change for the sake of change- you might become the next buffalo

 

[Troy McClure]

if you think the only thing sports are about is the ultimate championship your fandom is gonna be miserable, but hey, to each their own

EDIT: to be clear, i'm not saying don't try to improve the team. i'm not saying the team or FO is perfect. i'm saying they are factually in the top tier of teams. top 4 of 30 for 3 years straight. and for the most part highly competitive over the last 10 years. that's worth appreciating. it's also worth being careful you don't throw out everything and change for the sake of change- you might become the next buffalo

At the same time, I wouldn't presume keeping things much the same leads back to getting killed in the WCF.

If they bring back most of the same dudes and trigger the inevitable DeBoer collapse season, they could status quo their way out of the playoffs entirely.

 

[ElGuapo]

I'm only suggesting him coming back under a significant discount, preferably at less than $3mm. I'd ask for less for one year to try and win a cup (same with Benn).

There is no reason at all to have him on the team though. So why pay him anything at all to return?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I understand needing cap-space, but I'd much rather try and move out Dumba and Marchment before I consider moving Robo. And I would want at least a top D prospect with that #4 for Robo.

That depends on whether he'll come back without the C on his shirt, cos I don't see him being that guy who can be the leader to rally his team.

I think Robo will be traded, Marchment begrudgingly retained and Dumba bought out or traded for “future considerations”.

EDIT: I love this thread.

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

if you think the only thing sports are about is the ultimate championship your fandom is gonna be miserable, but hey, to each their own

EDIT: to be clear, i'm not saying don't try to improve the team. i'm not saying the team or FO is perfect. i'm saying they are factually in the top tier of teams. top 4 of 30 for 3 years straight. and for the most part highly competitive over the last 10 years. that's worth appreciating. it's also worth being careful you don't throw out everything and change for the sake of change- you might become the next buffalo

Literally NO ONE said/asked for that. You love your strawmen, don't you?

Edit: Even though I did not say nor imply that the team should "throw out everything.," I recall a time back in 2013-ish frame when people on here and DBD kept saying "You want to undergo a full rebuild and be like Edmonton? Look at them!".

Indeed. Look at them now. They're closer to a cup than Dallas will ever be,

 

[Kipper 17]

Literally NO ONE said/asked for that. You love your strawmen, don't you?

Edit: Even though I did not say nor imply that the team should "throw out everything.," I recall a time back in 2013-ish frame when people on here and DBD kept saying "You want to undergo a full rebuild and be like Edmonton? Look at them!".

Indeed. Look at them now. They're closer to a cup than Dallas will ever be,

All it took was multiple lottery wins, one of which was a generational talent. Very repeatable blueprint for success.

 

[WhoahNow]

If the Stars are trading Robertson I'd love for them to get JJ Peterka, he's awesome

 

[ChicagoBlues]

If the Stars are trading Robertson I'd love for them to get JJ Peterka, he's awesome

I think he’s going to Nashville. They have beaucoups draft picks. Easy partner.

 

[506]

I’m kind of butthurt at how this unfolded. In reality, Rantanen cost us Stankoven and Robertson- two great homegrown talents.

The deal isn't done yet - we don't know what the package is coming back for Robo.


What are most of you hoping for with a Robo deal? Picks? Younger players ready to step into the lineup? Proven NHLers? I'd like to see a top 4 RHD (or someone that is close to getting there), a middle 6 forward, ideally with some grit, and some picks depending on who we get.

Names/picks that intrigue me the most from teams that could be interested:
NJD - Nemec & Mercer
UTA - Kesserling & 4th Overall (if it ended up being Misa....)
ANA - McTavish, Luneau, Gudas
VAN - Hronek/Willander & Lekkerimaki

No idea on value - just some names that I'd be interested in.

 

[catters078]

New Jersey and Dallas would be good trading partners on this.

Especially if it was based around Robertson for Nemec. (And other pieces)..

I still prefer Robertson kept and retool through moving others out (personal preference) But if a deal was to go down I hope New Jersey are in the mix.

 

[Kcb12345]