Speculation: 2025 Off-season Thread

[GoNordiquesGo]

I won't be very popular, but to me its rinse and repeat...
The Avs were the better team 5 or 6 games out of 7.
They were the better team in almost every metric, other than goalie and special teams.
They lost, mainly because Oettinger was amazing (Blackwood did his job) and the special teams made the difference.
And that was against arguably one of the Top 3 teams in the league, even with their injuries.
It was a coin flip. A post/cross bar away in one of Games 2 or 3 or 7.
You don't throw the babe with the bath water. You try again.
Its the NHL, the parity is through the roof, so every year there is between 6 and 8 teams that are legit Cup Contender. That means on a good year you have 12%-15% chances of winning it all.
If you like your team, you keep it and try again.
I would keep Nelson if possible. Yes he is old, no he wasn't amazing, but I would keep him regardless, if a reasonable contract can be negotiated.
Everything else is working on the edges (bottom 5, 3rd pairing). You do what you can to get better there and that's it.

 

[the_fan]

I won't be very popular, but to me its rinse and repeat...
The Avs were the better team 5 or 6 games out of 7.
They were the better team in almost every metric, other than goalie and special teams.
They lost, mainly because Oettinger was amazing (Blackwood did his job) and the special teams made the difference.
And that was against arguably one of the Top 3 teams in the league, even with their injuries.
It was a coin flip. A post/cross bar away in one of Games 2 or 3 or 7.
You don't throw the babe with the bath water. You try again.
Its the NHL, the parity is through the roof, so every year there is between 6 and 8 teams that are legit Cup Contender. That means on a good year you have 12%-15% chances of winning it all.
If you like your team, you keep it and try again.
I would keep Nelson if possible. Yes he is old, no he wasn't amazing, but I would keep him regardless, if a reasonable contract can be negotiated.
Everything else is working on the edges (bottom 5, 3rd pairing). You do what you can to get better there and that's it.

The problem with this is, if Avs run it back with the same roster, what exactly makes you think we can finally beat Dallas in the playoffs? Same coach, same mentality, same roster. Personally I just see the same results

 

[Avsfan1921]

The problem with this is, if Avs run it back with the same roster, what exactly makes you think we can finally beat Dallas in the playoffs? Same coach, same mentality, same roster. Personally I just see the same results

It will be a coin flip, just like every other team every other year. They could very well win or crash and burn.

One thing that really seems lacking is the desire and intensity among our stars. That concerns me more than anything else.

 

[EdAVSfan]

The problem with this is, if Avs run it back with the same roster, what exactly makes you think we can finally beat Dallas in the playoffs? Same coach, same mentality, same roster. Personally I just see the same results

Do you believe the players were the cause, or the coach.
If you believe it’s the former, then I get why you want to change the players.
If it’s the latter, then changing the players around won’t do F all.

The AVS certainly played well enough to win. They simply got nervous and choked. That’s it. I don’t believe that because they choked and lost that the team they had can never win moving forward.

 

[RampoSanta]

I won't be very popular, but to me its rinse and repeat...
The Avs were the better team 5 or 6 games out of 7.
They were the better team in almost every metric, other than goalie and special teams.
They lost, mainly because Oettinger was amazing (Blackwood did his job) and the special teams made the difference.
And that was against arguably one of the Top 3 teams in the league, even with their injuries.
It was a coin flip. A post/cross bar away in one of Games 2 or 3 or 7.
You don't throw the babe with the bath water. You try again.
Its the NHL, the parity is through the roof, so every year there is between 6 and 8 teams that are legit Cup Contender. That means on a good year you have 12%-15% chances of winning it all.
If you like your team, you keep it and try again.
I would keep Nelson if possible. Yes he is old, no he wasn't amazing, but I would keep him regardless, if a reasonable contract can be negotiated.
Everything else is working on the edges (bottom 5, 3rd pairing). You do what you can to get better there and that's it.

I am of the same mind with one problem... The $$ dont work. So who gets the short straw?

Wood was the only guy taking on meaningful salary and not playing. What is the cost to dump him? With 4yrs left, I am thinking it would cost a 2nd rd.

Dumping him, would let you bring back Brock at ~$6M, Malinski at $1.75M and Lindgren at $3M. That is still 1F short and something like $400K of cap left. In this scenario, Lindgren is too expensive at 5D I would guess as the weakest link.

 

[the_fan]

It will be a coin flip, just like every other team every other year. They could very well win or crash and burn.

One thing that really seems lacking is the desire and intensity among our stars. That concerns me more than anything else.

Coin flip which we’ll lose again

 

[the_fan]

Do you believe the players were the cause, or the coach.
If you believe it’s the former, then I get why you want to change the players.
If it’s the latter, then changing the players around won’t do F all.

The AVS certainly played well enough to win. They simply got nervous and choked. That’s it. I don’t believe that because they choked and lost that the team they had can never win moving forward.

I mean I’ve already stated my opinion to what I think is wrong with the Avs like million times, but I’ll say it again.

It starts with CMac. He let more key players go than he should have.

Then Bednar unable to make this team focus and play 60 minutes to close out games.

And finally players need to be mentally stronger to not choke away games even if Bednar is unable to make them

 

[PAZ]

Coin flip which we’ll lose again

This series shouldn't have even been a coin flip with Robertson and Heiskanen out.

The Avs will most likely have a worse roster next year and won't be as healthy. This was best case scenario where a stacked, healthy Avs team was against a depleted Stars team. If that's what it takes to make the series a coin flip, it'll be ugly next year if everything else is reversed.

 

[the_fan]

This series shouldn't have even been a coin flip with Robertson and Heiskanen out.

Yeah, so what makes people think we can beat Dallas next year in the playoffs with the same roster, same coach and especially if Stars have Heiskanen and Robertson

 

[EdAVSfan]

I mean I’ve already stated my opinion to what I think is wrong with the Avs like million times, but I’ll say it again.

It starts with CMac. He let more key players go than he should have.

Then Bednar unable to make this team focus and play 60 minutes to close out games.

And finally players need to be mentally stronger to not choke away games even if Bednar is unable to make them

So in your opinion, the Avs team that went into the playoffs last year, is incapable of winning?

I find the idea of basing all decisions on one opponent very odd. As if Dallas is the western conference favorite every year. It was a bad idea when people talked that way about Vegas in the 2021 off season, and it’s a bad idea when talking about Dallas now.

You’re basically saying the GM isn’t good enough, the coach isn’t good enough and the players aren’t good enough.
Hate to break it to you, but barring they change everything, there’s nothing to convince you that this team can win. Why even suggest any moves at all? You don’t trust the coach can beat Dallas. So no matter what iteration of the team is formed, you’ll still never think it’s good enough.

 

[CobraAcesS]

The problem with this is, if Avs run it back with the same roster, what exactly makes you think we can finally beat Dallas in the playoffs? Same coach, same mentality, same roster. Personally I just see the same results

Some differences that could matter..

Landeskog leading this team for a full year for real could have a big impact on the mental strength of the team.

NHL caliber goaltending all season (Likely would have resulted in home ice)

Assuming you have a 2C that the coach trusts, more balanced minutes overall.

A deeper D core for a full season, and more balanced minutes there.

Colton was injured for most of the 1st round, Drouin was just ineffective, and Wood was scratched.

That's like 9M, if your goal was to bring back the most important pieces you could probably pull it off. That probably means adding your bottom six winger upgrades at the TDL, and not paying someone like Kivi.

 

[the_fan]

So in your opinion, the Avs team that went into the playoffs last year, is incapable of winning?

Yes, pretty much this. I don’t believe in Necas and Nelson being the type of players we can win with in the playoffs. Maybe if we had a different coach with different system, it could work, but with Bedmar and if we re-sign Nelson, don’t think we’re winning the cup. It’s just a massive drop off from Kadri and Mikko. You just simply can’t lose those types of players and expect to win

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I won't be very popular, but to me its rinse and repeat...
The Avs were the better team 5 or 6 games out of 7.
They were the better team in almost every metric, other than goalie and special teams.
They lost, mainly because Oettinger was amazing (Blackwood did his job) and the special teams made the difference.
And that was against arguably one of the Top 3 teams in the league, even with their injuries.
It was a coin flip. A post/cross bar away in one of Games 2 or 3 or 7.
You don't throw the babe with the bath water. You try again.
Its the NHL, the parity is through the roof, so every year there is between 6 and 8 teams that are legit Cup Contender. That means on a good year you have 12%-15% chances of winning it all.
If you like your team, you keep it and try again.
I would keep Nelson if possible. Yes he is old, no he wasn't amazing, but I would keep him regardless, if a reasonable contract can be negotiated.
Everything else is working on the edges (bottom 5, 3rd pairing). You do what you can to get better there and that's it.

Hey man, I hope just because we might have a difference of opinion, it doesn't mean you are any less popular to me.

In fact, I tend to hold those that have other views but continue to engage with and talk with me in much higher regard. Hope you can delete that first line completely soon.

As for the rest, I get what you are saying. I keep going around, around and around chasing my own tail on this. I just happened to come down on the side that even while I've been disappointed in player performances during the playoffs, I never saw the adjustments I would expect a coach to make... be it in game or between them. Jared's lineups have rubbed me wrong going back to us getting tossed by Minny years ago. He just has never seemed content to have a dominate team... he wants a single line that he can just piss on other teams with. He's completely forgotten the part that there are 22 other proud mother f***ers on the ice, that have coaches who have seen his game before.

It's not a wonder that we are getting tossed from the playoffs so quickly. It's a wonder we're making them at all with this brain trust in charge.

 

[the_fan]

Some differences that could matter..

Landeskog leading this team for a full year for real could have a big impact on the mental strength of the team.

NHL caliber goaltending all season (Likely would have resulted in home ice)

Assuming you have a 2C that the coach trusts, more balanced minutes overall.

A deeper D core for a full season, and more balanced minutes there.

Colton was injured for most of the 1st round, Drouin was just ineffective, and Wood was scratched.

That's like 9M, if your goal was to bring back the most important pieces you could probably pull it off. That probably means adding your bottom six winger upgrades at the TDL, and not paying someone like Kivi.

Well yeah, if we have a different 2C who can actually play in Bednar’s system, and maybe couple of other changes, we can definitely win. I’m just saying we can’t win with the roster we had in this playoffs

 

[EdAVSfan]

Yes, pretty much this. I don’t believe in Necas and Nelson being the type of players we can win with in the playoffs. Maybe if we had a different coach with different system, it could work, but with Bedmar and if we re-sign Nelson, don’t think we’re winning the cup. It’s just a massive drop off from Kadri and Mikko. You just simply can’t lose those types of players and expect to win

Ok, I can appreciate your stance.

But this is where we fundamentally disagree. I personally think last seasons team was more than good enough to win. It had everything. The fact that they didn’t doesn’t really change my opinion.
In the past, when we got eliminated, we, at times, got severely outplayed. Vegas took it to us, and even Seattle outplayed us.

Against Dallas, I didn’t get that sense at all. The AVS were really a much better team, who in the worst moments, choked it away.

It feels a lot more like the Avs lost rather than they got beat. And I didn’t really feel that way in their past eliminations.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Well yeah, if we have a different 2C who can actually play in Bednar’s system, and maybe couple of other changes, we can definitely win. I’m just saying we can’t win with the roster we had in this playoffs

I think they could given all of those factors, and I don't like Nelson.

It's funny I see Necas and Nelson completely different even though everyone is putting them in the same soft category.

Give me Kadri instead of Nelson, and I'd be much more confident.

Edit..

That being said I am the one who thinks our power play was the true death nail for not getting past Dallas. That's a coachable fix IMO.

It's beyond infuriating for me that getting a power play would be something that completely kills your 5v5 momentum, but it was.

 

[the_fan]

I think they could given all of those factors, and I don't like Nelson.

It's funny I see Necas and Nelson completely different even though everyone is putting them in the same soft category.

Give me Kadri instead of Nelson, and I'd be much more confident.

Edit..

That being said I am the one who thinks our power play was the true death nail for not getting past Dallas. That's a coachable fix IMO.

It's beyond infuriating for me that getting a power play would be something that completely kills your 5v5 momentum, but it was.

Losing one of Kadri or Mikko would be a big drop off, losing both is just massive. Kadri is a heart and soul type of player who will go to war for you and do everything he can to win, you know like scoring a massive goal with a broken finger like he did in 22, and say what you want about Mikko, lazy or not, the guy is just a pure talent and a legit goal scorer. Not sure why people are surprised we don’t win when we lost both of those players

 

[EdAVSfan]

Losing one of Kadri or Mikko would be a big drop off, losing both is just massive. Kadri is a heart and soul type of player who will go to war for you and do everything he can to win, you know like scoring a massive goal with a broken finger like he did in 22, and say what you want about Mikko, lazy or not, the guy is just a pure talent and a legit goal scorer. Not sure why people are surprised we don’t win when we lost both of those players

Mostly because all the previous disappointments, had Mikko on the team as well.

 

[the_fan]

Ok, I can appreciate your stance.

But this is where we fundamentally disagree. I personally think last seasons team was more than good enough to win. It had everything. The fact that they didn’t doesn’t really change my opinion.
In the past, when we got eliminated, we, at times, got severely outplayed. Vegas took it to us, and even Seattle outplayed us.

Against Dallas, I didn’t get that sense at all. The AVS were really a much better team, who in the worst moments, choked it away.

It feels a lot more like the Avs lost rather than they got beat. And I didn’t really feel that way in their past eliminations.

This is just one of those topics where everyone has their opinion, and I’m not gonna insist that you’re wrong and I’m right. If you believe we can win with that roster, there is no way I can say you’re 100% right or wrong.

It could be a case where we bring everyone back, try again with the same roster, and go all the way because Nelson and Necas have the same effect and impact as Kadri and Mikko. I just simply don’t see it. I believe we need either a coaching change or a decent size roster change to go all the way

 

[the_fan]

Mostly because all the previous disappointments, had Mikko on the team as well.

Very true. No argument there, but the Avs pretty much moved on from their true identity when they lost Kadri plus Mikko. It has that chain reaction. Mikko was a core piece and Kadri not too far from also being a core piece.

Losing key players like that also impacts the locker room. Guys like Nate, Cale, Landy all disappointed from losing Naz and Mikko.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Very true. No argument there, but the Avs pretty much moved on from their true identity when they lost Kadri plus Mikko. It has that chain reaction. Mikko was a core piece and Kadri not too far from also being a core piece.

Kadri's personality is a very underrated part of what made that team, and it's identity.

His fire was a flaw at times, but he eventually learned to keep it on the right side of the line.

That sell out goal with a broken hand is something I'll never forget.

 

[the_fan]

Kadri's personality is a very underrated part of what made that team, and it's identity.

His fire was a flaw at times, but he eventually learned to keep it on the right side of the line.

That sell out goal with a broken hand is something I'll never forget.

Yeah, also you could see how close Nate was with both Kadri and Mikko. It’s not only a negative effect on ice, but also off ice. Just imagine if Crosby lost Malkin during their contention window, or Kane lost Toews, I can bring up all kinds of examples.

 

[Metallo]

Avs are stale as a 5 days old donut. They need a mental reset with a new coach. There is very little wiggle room to improve the roster so a coaching change was the only realistic boost.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Avs are stale as a 5 days old donut. They need a mental reset with a new coach. There is very little wiggle room to improve the roster so a coaching change was the only realistic boost.

But they doubled down on Bednar.

I've got absolute zero expectations for this team moving forward. They refuse to acknowledge or adress their biggest weakness... Jared Bednar.

I sound like a broken record, damnit I know. But when you get to this point... I'm not sure what else I should do. Just quit coming here and talking hockey? Ignore my team for a decade until they get a President who wants to win again? Hope that a real estate moguls son who loves basketball takes enough interest in the hockey side of things to make changes?

When it's the ownership/coaching that is failing a team... it's much, much worse on a fan base than just knowing their players suck.

 

[JasenR]

I won't be very popular, but to me its rinse and repeat...
The Avs were the better team 5 or 6 games out of 7.
They were the better team in almost every metric, other than goalie and special teams.
They lost, mainly because Oettinger was amazing (Blackwood did his job) and the special teams made the difference.
And that was against arguably one of the Top 3 teams in the league, even with their injuries.
It was a coin flip. A post/cross bar away in one of Games 2 or 3 or 7.
You don't throw the babe with the bath water. You try again.
Its the NHL, the parity is through the roof, so every year there is between 6 and 8 teams that are legit Cup Contender. That means on a good year you have 12%-15% chances of winning it all.
If you like your team, you keep it and try again.
I would keep Nelson if possible. Yes he is old, no he wasn't amazing, but I would keep him regardless, if a reasonable contract can be negotiated.
Everything else is working on the edges (bottom 5, 3rd pairing). You do what you can to get better there and that's it.

Im very much on the same side. Maybe I change Bednar, but who knows if new coach can really get them going trying to make them play different style.

Quite many have forgotten how in '22 even being a top team Avs got those breaks in scoring when it mattered. Its was like they could score anywhere and all went in. Now they just shoot wide all the time.

Also St Louis hurting their goalie.

This year they got absolutely hammered in those must score situation. Im sure the roster was capable. They just couldnt do it.

And yeah. If it wasnt Mikko it would have been someone else propably so I wont give in to the whole Mikko factor as much.