Speculation: 2025 Off-season Thread

[Soedy]

Also it’s probably not that easy for Kroenke to let Sakic and CMac go. I mean CMac is Sakic’s guy, if they gonna fire CMac, they have to let Joe go too. Just can’t see that happening

Nah, don't think so. They could easily sack CMac and keep Sakic around. Sakic is going nowhere.

 

[Metallo]

CMac, the guy we absolutely had to promote otherwise we were going to lose him. Woof....

 

[shadow1]

How much cap space did he inherit? I think people are going a little over the top with the revisionist history and hatred for CMac.

The salary cap was $82.5M in 2022-2023.

On contract:

• F: Compher, Landeskog, MacDermid, MacKinnon, Meyers, Newhook, O'Connor, Rantanen
• D: Byram, Girard, Johnson, Makar, Toews
• G: Francouz
• Cap space: ~$25.6M

Signings:

• F: Cogliano ($1.25), Helm ($1.25), Lehkonen ($4.5), Nichushkin ($6.125), Rodrigues ($2.0), Sedlak ($0.8M)
• D: Hunt ($0.7M), Manson ($4.5)
• G: Georgiev ($3.4)
• Cap space: ~$1.1M

Georgiev and Nichushkin were done before July 1. Colorado was sitting with roughly $13.6M in cap space, and then re-signed Manson early on Free Agency Day. Lehkonen was an RFA and we all knew he'd eat half of the remaining ~$9M, so no room for Kadri.

CMac then spent basically 1.5 months doing the tango with Kadri, trying and failing to send EJ to Anaheim, and eventually signing E-Rod in September. It's been said many times, the 2C woes can be directly traced back to re-signing Manson.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The salary cap was $82.5M in 2022-2023.

On contract:

• F: Compher, Landeskog, MacDermid, MacKinnon, Meyers, Newhook, O'Connor, Rantanen
• D: Byram, Girard, Johnson, Makar, Toews
• G: Francouz
• Cap space: ~$25.6M

Signings:

• F: Cogliano ($1.25), Helm ($1.25), Lehkonen ($4.5), Nichushkin ($6.125), Rodrigues ($2.0), Sedlak ($0.8M)
• D: Hunt ($0.7M), Manson ($4.5)
• G: Georgiev ($3.4)
• Cap space: ~$1.1M

Georgiev and Nichushkin were done before July 1. Colorado was sitting with roughly $13.6M in cap space, and then re-signed Manson early on Free Agency Day. Lehkonen was an RFA and we all knew he'd eat half of the remaining ~$9M, so no room for Kadri.

CMac then spent basically 1.5 months doing the tango with Kadri, trying and failing to send EJ to Anaheim, and eventually signing E-Rod in September. It's been said many times, the 2C woes can be directly traced back to re-signing Manson.

Or not moving someone that wasn't EJ. JT could've been moved. Girard could've been moved...

 

[the_fan]

Nah, don't think so. They could easily sack CMac and keep Sakic around. Sakic is going nowhere.

I know they could, but would they?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I know they could, but would they?

I hope it's the first thing Gabe does upon retirement as a player.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I hope it's the first thing Gabe does upon retirement as a player.

Andrew Cogliano is a more likely choice, although he’s being groomed directly by CMac so maybe not lol

 

[sethro109]

Or not moving someone that wasn't EJ. JT could've been moved. Girard could've been moved...

I guess trading Compher and having Erod as the 3C would've made just too much sense. I still can't believe that management was so loyal to that soulless f***. Who prioritizes the 3C over the 2C?

 

[The Moops]

I guess trading Compher and having Erod as the 3C would've made just too much sense. I still can't believe that management was so loyal to that soulless f***. Who prioritizes the 3C over the 2C?

The sleepy twins.

Having said that, JTC did score some big playoff goals for us. He just wasn't ever a 2C. Sad management couldn't see it. Or Just, Newhook, ect...

 

[sethro109]

The sleepy twins.

Having said that, JTC did score some big playoff goals for us. He just wasn't ever a 2C. Sad management couldn't see it. Or Just, Newhook, ect...

He scored those as a 3C. As a 2C he had 1 points in 7 playoff games, getting 23 minutes a night, while taking offensive zone faceoffs with MacK, Mikko and Makar.

 

[the_fan]

This is gonna make it sound like I’m bashing Girard again, but I’m really not. I just don’t get why CMac is willing to let so many players go, but Girard is always untouchable. I mean he’s a good puck moving d-man, but it’s not like he provides tons of offense or he’s great defensively. Prioritizing keeping Girard and his 5 mill cap space is puzzling to me. We could get a cheaper 2nd pair d-man to be solid defensively and use that cap space on something more important.

This must be CMac when he watches Girard do his spinoramas..

 

[expatriatedtexan]

This is gonna make it sound like I’m bashing him again, but I’m really not. I just don’t get why CMac is willing to let so many players go, but Girard is always untouchable. I mean he’s a good puck moving d-man, but it’s not like he provides tons of offense or he’s great defensively. Prioritizing keeping Girard and his 5 mill cap space is puzzling to me. We could get a cheaper 2nd pair d-man to be solid defensively and use that cap space on something more important.

This must be CMac when he watches Girard do his spinoramas..
View attachment 1034655

Suppose we moved G this summer in a package for a 2C. Our D would be:

Toews-Makar
X-Malinski
Aamodt/Ludvig-Manson
Middleton

My two biggest concerns:
1. While he proved he could play in the playoffs, I'm not convinced Malinski is a 2nd pairing defensemen. But finding an LD should be cheaper than an RD.
2. The bigger concern is, what kind of center are we getting if Girard was the centerpiece? Even if our 2027 1st was in play?

 

[the_fan]

Suppose we moved G this summer in a package for a 2C. Our D would be:

Toews-Makar
X-Malinski
Aamodt/Ludvig-Manson
Middleton

My two biggest concerns:
1. While he proved he could play in the playoffs, I'm not convinced Malinski is a 2nd pairing defensemen. But finding an LD should be cheaper than an RD.
2. The bigger concern is, what kind of center are we getting if Girard was the centerpiece? Even if our 2027 1st was in play?

Unfortunately the damage has already been done. I don’t know what moves can be done right now involving Girard that would make us better.

I’ll stick to my previous proposal..

Necas+Girard for EP + a pick

Then sign a cheaper 2nd pair LD. Maybe sign someone like Dumoulin for 3.5 or something

 

[The Abusement Park]

This is gonna make it sound like I’m bashing Girard again, but I’m really not. I just don’t get why CMac is willing to let so many players go, but Girard is always untouchable. I mean he’s a good puck moving d-man, but it’s not like he provides tons of offense or he’s great defensively. Prioritizing keeping Girard and his 5 mill cap space is puzzling to me. We could get a cheaper 2nd pair d-man to be solid defensively and use that cap space on something more important.

This must be CMac when he watches Girard do his spinoramas..
View attachment 1034655

It's because Girards value to the Avs is far more than he'd fetch in a trade. I'm sure Cmac was shopping Girard for 2C's plenty, but the value wasn't there for him.

Girard also gets way more flack here than he deserves. He's a very good 2nd pairing dman. He's not perfect, but that's why he's a 2nd pairing guy. He'd also be an upgrade on a ton of teams 2nd pair.

 

[the_fan]

It's because Girards value to the Avs is far more than he'd fetch in a trade. I'm sure Cmac was shopping Girard for 2C's plenty, but the value wasn't there for him.

Girard also gets way more flack here than he deserves. He's a very good 2nd pairing dman. He's not perfect, but that's why he's a 2nd pairing guy. He'd also be an upgrade on a ton of teams 2nd pair.

Girard always seem to have negative value for us in the playoffs. He either gets injured and not even there to help us win like in 2022, or he gets defensively abused against bigger, physical teams like vs Vegas, or the puck goes off him into his own net for a game tying goal in game 7 vs Dallas this year

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Unfortunately the damage has already been done. I don’t know what moves can be done right now involving Girard that would make us better.

I’ll stick to my previous proposal..

Necas+Girard for EP + a pick

Then sign a cheaper 2nd pair LD. Maybe sign someone like Dumoulin for 3.5 or something

I'd rather try Necas and Coyle at training camp than trade for Petey at this point. Bednar does not have a track record of helping struggling centers.

Right now we are not in an enviable situation. I can't imagine us in this same situation but without Necas, Girard but with EP's contract and him continuing to play to his recent form. At that point, Crosby will be asking Nate if he wants to come play in Pittsburgh.

 

[the_fan]

I'd rather try Necas and Coyle at training camp than trade for Petey at this point. Bednar does not have a track record of helping struggling centers.

Right now we are not in an enviable situation. I can't imagine us in this same situation but without Necas, Girard but with EP's contract and him continuing to play to his recent form. At that point, Crosby will be asking Nate if he wants to come play in Pittsburgh.

I still think EP struggle is a one off thing. It was this season when things just fell apart in Vancouver. The fact is, we do need someone with skills and talent to be our 2C. Bednar can work with talented players, its players with limited talent like Nelson that have issues in Bednar’s system

 

[The Abusement Park]

Girard always seem to have negative value for us in the playoffs. He either gets injured and not even there to help us win like in 2022, or he gets defensively abused against bigger, physical teams like vs Vegas, or the puck goes off him into his own net for a game tying goal in game 7 vs Dallas this year

Girards been more than fine the last two playoff runs. Especially this year. Scoring chances were 72-46 Avs with him on the ice this year. High danger chances were 31-23 Avs. Shot attempts were 146-112 Avs. He had 3 points(all even strength) which is a 35pt pace which is decent. Overall he was very much a net positive on the backend this year. But because he's small and had a bad series vs Vegas he has this stupid microscope on him.

 

[the_fan]

Girards been more than fine the last two playoff runs. Especially this year. Scoring chances were 72-46 Avs with him on the ice this year. High danger chances were 31-23 Avs. Shot attempts were 146-112 Avs. He had 3 points(all even strength) which is a 35pt pace which is decent. Overall he was very much a net positive on the backend this year. But because he's small and had a bad series vs Vegas he has this stupid microscope on him.

Again, I’m not saying Girard is a bad player, but I’ll ask a simple question. Is it better we have Girard right now, or would it be better if Girard was traded to make cap space for re-signing Kadri?

Seems like an easy choice. We haven’t found a 2C yet since the cup run, but we could easily replace Girard with many different options for 2nd pair LD

 

[The Abusement Park]

Again, I’m not saying Girard is a bad player, but I’ll ask a simple question. Is it better we have Girard right now, or would it be better if Girard was traded to make cap space for re-signing Kadri?

Seems like an easy choice. We haven’t found a 2C yet since the cup run, but we could easily replace Girard with many different options for 2nd pair LD

I'm not arguing for Girard over Kadri. Realistically it should've been Kadri>JTC...

Also could we replace Girard easily for what he costs? What sub 5mil dman are we going to get right now that can move the puck as well as he does and defend at the level he does?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Problem with harping on Girard about his offense is that he doesn't really play with players who are expected to score.

Bednar has one scoring line. That line plays almost exclusively with Toews and Makar. Nobody else has been expected or relied upon to score since the cup run. Until there is a competent second line, don't expect a heck of a lot of scoring from the depth defensemen.

 

[the_fan]

I'm not arguing for Girard over Kadri. Realistically it should've been Kadri>JTC...

Also could we replace Girard easily for what he costs? What sub 5mil dman are we going to get right now that can move the puck as well as he does and defend at the level he does?

I mean we could get someone cheaper who might not be as good as Girard moving the puck, but still good with the puck and solid defensively. Maybe someone like Dumoulin

 

[The Abusement Park]

Problem with harping on Girard about his offense is that he doesn't really play with players who are expected to score.

Bednar has one scoring line. That line plays almost exclusively with Toews and Makar. Nobody else has been expected or relied upon to score since the cup run. Until there is a competent second line, don't expect a heck of a lot of scoring from the depth defensemen.

Even then Girard had 23 ES points this year. That ties him for 21st in dmen scoring at ES.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean we could get someone cheaper who might not be as good as Girard moving the puck, but still good with the puck and solid defensively. Maybe someone like Dumoulin

I mean we'd save decent cap. But that'd be a monumental downgrade...

 

[the_fan]

I mean we'd save decent cap. But that'd be a monumental downgrade...

Yeah maybe at 2nd pair LD position downgrade, but how much more balanced the whole roster would be. In a world where we trade Girard and JTC for draft picks after the cup run, freeing up 8.5 mill, then re-sign Naz to 7 mill contract. Also we’d have more draft picks to work with by trading Girard and JTC

Then fast forward to this year when we have Kadri, and we could have kept Byram for what he’s making right now which is 3.8 mill. So basically after the Mikko trade our roster would be the same except Kadri at 2C and Byram on 2nd pair LD which would make us better overall