Speculation: 2025 Off-season Thread

[the_fan]

I don't have a good answer. But I kinda see it like a rock paper scissors.

System
Avs: Offense - Defense
Stars: Defense - Defense
Oilers: Offense - Offense

OD beats OO but looses to DD
DD beats OD but loses to OO
OO beats DD but looses to OD

Or maybe the DD Stars system only lasts couple of rounds before they get tired of playing that defensive system and just let up? I’d imagine as a coach I’d be hard to make your team play that defensive style where your entire team is on the same page for 4 rounds to win the cup. Eventually you do need super stars to get you over the line. Maybe Mikko can do it for them this year, who knows

 

[sethro109]

Or maybe the DD Stars system only lasts couple of rounds before they get tired of playing that defensive system and just let up? I’d imagine as a coach I’d be hard to make your team play that defensive style where your entire team is on the same page for 4 rounds to win the cup. Eventually you do need super stars to get you over the line. Maybe Mikko can do it for them this year, who knows

I still think now that his spite is over, he'll come back down to earth.

 

[the_fan]

Maybe if we faced the Stars in the conference finals we would beat them because they’d be over their quota on team defense?

 

[The Merchant]

The more I think about the Mikko trade and everything that followed it pisses me the f*** off. We traded Mikko to get deeper and get more flexibility going forwards. Well Mikko Rantanen outscored every single addition Cmac made to replace Rantanen this series. Coyle, Necas, Nelson, Drury, and Lindgren scored a combined 2 goals.

Sure but its about the future in trading Mikko. Cool we no longer have Ritchie as a prospect or a trade piece and 2 picks this upcoming draft.


This isn't to say Mikko had to stay... But the line with a successful Mikko line couldn't have been thinner and the outcome of Cmacs moves this year have left Colorado in an insanely precarious position this off season.

Hey, chill! Now we have the cap flexibility to offer contracts to all those free agents that won't want to come to Colorado!

 

[the_fan]

Benn is a UFA. We should sign him

 

[Bender]

Do they though?

I'm not saying I disagree, but I'm not sure they're going to do anything. Sakic has been pretty "measured" when it comes to these things.

If I had to bet a paycheck, I'd put my money on them not making significant management changes.

Yeah they do. They REALLY do.

I understand that they may not want to do it but I don't know if they are watching the same team that I have been the past three years. This is a team that keeps waiting to lose. For whatever reason, they don't grab hold of opportunities, step on their opponents throats and deliver the knockout blow when it's needed.

Whether that's a series that goes a needless 7 games against Seattle - whether that's a 6 games series against dallass last year or the 7 game series debacle we just witnessed - this team just freezes and waits for something bad to happen - and then it does. It's almost as if they want to 'create' their own adversity... it makes no sense.

For all those suggesting it's the players - from that Seattle series in 2023, the roster has turned over A METRIC TON and the actual core of these players has actually won a Stanley Cup - so for me this is 100% on the coaching staff. It's THEIR job to motivate the players - get their heads in the game - make them realize the opportunity - and get them to grab it and be difference makers. Out of the very good players we acquired at the TDL - I didn't see a lot of that - especially out of Nelson or Coyle. I thought Lindgren was good for the most part but I certainly don't think Coyle needed to be played like a 4th line plug the way Bednar managed his minutes... that's not realizing the type of player he is. If properly used and motivated, that guy could have been a massive player for us - instead we neutered him and treated him like he was an afterthought. Yeah that coaching staff needs to go.

In the end, I think there's a strong chance that it's going to play out the way you suggested but it's not going to change the fact that it's going to be a mistake and result in ANOTHER wasted year.

Seems like history repeating itself - the core group that came from the Nordiques, really should have won more than 2 Stanley Cups other than 1996 and 2001. There were certainly excellent opportunities in between those years and a few year after that. From Crawford to Hartley to Granatool - that was part of the problem with the Avalanche is that they seemingly never put nearly as much stock into coaching as was actually necessary. When they ended up with an excellent coach - Joel Quenneville - it was too late and the team was too weak overall for them to make any noise in the playoffs.

 

[Foppa2118]

Of course Sakic is going to be there to try to deflect some of the blame off CMac.

I've already seen tomorrow's cheat sheet:

• "Dallas wasn't a normal first round opponent"
• "We believe in this group and we're all in"
• "We're biased by we think Jared is one of the best in the business"
• "We're going to circle back to all of our free agents and see if we can come to terms"
• "Mikko is a heck of a player, we saw that in this series, our focus is on the players we have here"

Also...

• Asked about injuries? - "We had some key guys banged up, but we're not gonna get into specifics on that right now. It's a personal decision."
• What was going on with Makar? - "Not gonna get into that."
• Asked about Nelson? - "We'll see. We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about Lindgren? - "We'll see. We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about Drouin? - "We'll see.We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about possible trades? - "We'll see. We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about the draft? - "We're gonna have our meetings like usual, and do our due diligence. We'll see what happens."
• Asked about Val's season? - "We're happy for Val. At the end of the day, hockey is just a sport, and life is more important. He's a big part of our team, you've seen the record with him in the lineup."
• Nobody follows up to point out he wasn't the same puck hound this year, and their record wasn't nearly as good with him in the lineup.
• Asked about whether they could have signed Mikko? - "We just couldn't get to the same number. We love Mikko. It's just part of the business."
• Nobody follows up to ask if Mikko lowered his price, said he wanted to stay, and that he was flexible, like he said he told them right before they traded him.
• Asked about their reasoning behind the Mikko trade? - "Look, we've seen how important depth is in the playoffs."
• Nobody follows up to point out a star player, and game breaker beat their depth single handedly, and it was the guy they traded for depth.
• Asked about getting some secondary trade protection from Carolina? - "We're focused on us, not the other team. It's part of the business."
• Every other question - "We're looking forward to seeing how the team looks with their Captain back all season."

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

I don't have a good answer. But I kinda see it like a rock paper scissors.

System
Avs: Offense - Defense
Stars: Defense - Defense
Oilers: Offense - Offense

OD beats OO but looses to DD
DD beats OD but loses to OO
OO beats DD but looses to OD

Or maybe the Avs were such a wagon in 2022 you can't really count that for much of a trend. And the Oilers would dunk on the Avs any other year. Like they do to LA. Or Dallas does to the Avs.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Mikko was probably asking for 13 mill from the Avs, if Avs re-sign Necas in couple of years, it’s probably gonna be at least 10 mill. Was the 3 mill worth losing Mikko over? The future really doesn’t look good for this team

But the point of not paying Mikko 13 was to have depth spread out for the team for the next couple years. Well we added a 4/5D, 1RW, 4C/W, a 3C and a 2C with the cap space created from moving Mikko. Well only the 3C and 4C is guaranteed to come back next year. So with Mikko we had by far the best player of that bunch but not great depth. Now were a little more flexible cap wise(but still pretty tight) down by far the best player of that grouping, down a f*** ton of assets with a lot of work to improve the depth next year.

 

[the_fan]

But the point of not paying Mikko 13 was to have depth spread out for the team for the next couple years. Well we added a 4/5D, 1RW, 4C/W, a 3C and a 2C with the cap space created from moving Mikko. Well only the 3C and 4C is guaranteed to come back next year. So with Mikko we had by far the best player of that bunch but not great depth. Now were a little more flexible cap wise(but still pretty tight) down by far the best player of that grouping, down a f*** ton of assets with a lot of work to improve the depth next year.

I really think Mikko drove himself out of Denver. I don’t recall at any point this season Mikko being as dominant as he was in the last 3 games of the series for Dallas. If he was that dominant, I don’t think we trade him at all

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

We already lost to them in the first round in a game 7. Do we really need to do it again?

No we didn't. That's where the timeline got f***ed up. Never happened.

 

[JasenR]

Ok but how do you explain the Avs not able to beat the Stars, but we can beat the Oilers who can beat the Stars? Like WTF is happening there?

Well that's hockey for you. This year the Dallas series could have ended 4-1 Avs series win. But they lost the both overtime games and that basically sealed the deal. Also propably any other day they would have won the game7 being up 2 goals, but its hockey. Weird stuff happens, lucky bounces whatever.

And with Edmonton in 2022 their goalie was just so bad that Avs just outscored them in scoring race for 4 games straigth.

 

[JasenR]

Any coaches available that have a winning record against DeBoer?

Other wise I think Bruce Boudreau would be a great choice, based only on the fact that we would make funny jokes about him and the crapalanche, might as well make it fun

Well let me tell you a story about Bruce and game7s.

Better yet let UrinatingTree tell it

 

[Grigowski]

Also...

• Asked about injuries? - "We had some key guys banged up, but we're not gonna get into specifics on that right now. It's a personal decision."
• What was going on with Makar? - "Not gonna get into that."
• Asked about Nelson? - "We'll see. We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about Lindgren? - "We'll see. We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about Drouin? - "We'll see.We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about possible trades? - "We'll see. We have a big offseason ahead of us and we're excited to get to work."
• Asked about the draft? - "We're gonna have our meetings like usual, and do our due diligence. We'll see what happens."
• Asked about Val's season? - "We're happy for Val. At the end of the day, hockey is just a sport, and life is more important. He's a big part of our team, you've seen the record with him in the lineup."
• Nobody follows up to point out he wasn't the same puck hound this year, and their record wasn't nearly as good with him in the lineup.
• Asked about whether they could have signed Mikko? - "We just couldn't get to the same number. We love Mikko. It's just part of the business."
• Nobody follows up to ask if Mikko lowered his price, said he wanted to stay, and that he was flexible, like he said he told them right before they traded him.
• Asked about their reasoning behind the Mikko trade? - "Look, we've seen how important depth is in the playoffs."
• Nobody follows up to point out a star player, and game breaker beat their depth single handedly, and it was the guy they traded for depth.
• Asked about getting some secondary trade protection from Carolina? - "We're focused on us, not the other team. It's part of the business."
• Every other question - "We're looking forward to seeing how the team looks with their Captain back all season."

I really fear you are damn near to the truth with what exactly we are going to hear......

 

[LOFIN]

Mikko was probably asking for 13 mill from the Avs, if Avs re-sign Necas in couple of years, it’s probably gonna be at least 10 mill. Was the 3 mill worth losing Mikko over? The future really doesn’t look good for this team

You can once again take Kyper's reporting as a grain of salt, I personally do trust him. They once again went over the saga on their show yesterday, in the aftermath of Saturday's game. Some notes:

- Kyper puts the blame on Sakic, a trade of this magnitude does not happen without his approval
- The Avs had made the determination that Rantanen doesn't deserve MacKinnon, let alone Draisaitl money
- For the majority of the year, the Avs offer was basically that of Pastrnak
- Rantanen camp was asking for 13-14M, in the aftermath of the Draisaitl deal
- The Avs eventually upped their offer to 11.6, Rantanen's agent was still asking for that 13M
- Then Mikko personally intervened, and told the MacFarland that he's willing to be flexible, and come down from the ask
- The Avs basically never reacted to that, and Mikko was traded 48 hours later

That left a real sour taste in the mouth for Mikko. And apparently, Carolina had competitive offers from both Dallas and Toronto. And Tulsky asked Rantanen which team he would want, and he said Dallas. And not just because of his Finnish friends or taxes, but to stick it up to the Avs.

We'll see how the deal ages, what happens with Necas with the Avs etc. Right now it looks awful, but like I said earlier, I think we need to go at least 3 years down the road to start fully making determinations about this deal. If the Avs still end up winning a cup (or at the very least, making it to a cup final) in the next few years and Necas (or whatever is left of that trade) is a significant contributor, maybe it's still fine. Maybe Rantanen doesn't look like a 12M player in Dallas after all, and this was just a hot streak on a vengeance tour. We'll see.

I will say this however. If Mikko really looks more like the G6/G7 Mikko for the rest of the playoffs AND next season, it's a giant f***up and an indictment for the Avs front office. Yeah, Mikko had become complacent, lazy, whatever adjective you want to use during the last few years of his Avs tenure. But, if under a new coach and a different system he once again becomes a play driving force, a top-5 forward in the league, you bet on that talent all day long and find the coach who can unlock that. It could be as simple as bringing down his minutes, we all know how much Bednar overplays his stars. In the big picture, the Avs maybe made a bet of Rantanen vs Bednar, and sided with Bednar. And this might turn out to be a giant mistake, if that's what happened.

The aforementioned section of the Real Kyper and Bourne show, where they talk about Rantanen:

 

[Grigowski]

You can once again take Kyper's reporting as a grain of salt, I personally do trust him. They once again went over the saga on their show yesterday, in the aftermath of Saturday's game. Some notes:

- Kyper puts the blame on Sakic, a trade of this magnitude does not happen without his approval
- The Avs had made the determination that Rantanen doesn't deserve MacKinnon, let alone Draisaitl money
- For the majority of the year, the Avs offer was basically that of Pastrnak
- Rantanen camp was asking for 13-14M, in the aftermath of the Draisaitl deal
- The Avs eventually upped their offer to 11.6, Rantanen's agent was still asking for that 13M
- Then Mikko personally intervened, and told the MacFarland that he's willing to be flexible, and come down from the ask
- The Avs basically never reacted to that, and Mikko was traded 48 hours later

That left a real sour taste in the mouth for Mikko. And apparently, Carolina had competitive offers from both Dallas and Toronto. And Tulsky asked Rantanen which team he would want, and he said Dallas. And not just because of his Finnish friends or taxes, but to stick it up to the Avs.

Regarding Sakic giving the final "go". I think so too. And thats why MacFarland will stay GM of this team.

- The Avs eventually upped their offer to 11.6, Rantanen's agent was still asking for that 13M

And at that point it all went to hell.....

Then Mikko personally intervened, and told the MacFarland that he's willing to be flexible, and come down from the ask

And at that point the trade was already done. Thats why MacFarland didnt react anymore. He already had pulled the trigger.


Sure that this left a sour taste in Mikko´s mouth. But what was he, and his agent thinking? The first time he took the Avs right into training camp as RFA. This time his agent went with Draisailt money and never really came down and, and here is the fatality !!, thought the AVs would never trade away one of the best wingers in the game, until it was too late or Mikko saw the storm brewing and intervened.

He signed for 12 mill in Dallas, no tax (!!!). Means approx. 12.5 in Colorado, or MacKinnon money.

And the AVS never offered him that. So flexible means "give me MacKinnon money and we are good". Unfortunately, the final offer from MacFarland was 11.6,

Anyway, its over and Mikko has the last laugh for now.

But to this day i still think that 12 mill would have done it.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Let’s see what moose does going forward. These few periods of glory are an anomaly in the arc of his past 2 seasons.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Let’s see what moose does going forward. These few periods of glory are an anomaly in the arc of his past 2 seasons.

This. Ive been quiet for a few days, but Rantanen really only put up 2 great periods of hockey and 3 good games of points. He's always been capable of that. But the more he doesn't put in the effort, the sooner he's going to decline and people are going to get tired of his schtick.

Doesn't change the narrative for the Avs this season sadly. They invested in someone that didn't fit the team (Nelson) and a bunch of the rest of the team didn't show up in the post-season. Dallas is voodoo for the Avs. It's just a shame we're probably going to see the team meander through the good-great divide for another 3-5 years and unless they strike some luck, eventually decline into average and slide into rebuilding as MacK declines.

Funny enough, salary cap really hurt them again with 3 years of it frozen.

 

[Anders Cain]

AI:
People love sports for a mix of emotional, social, and psychological reasons. Here are some key ones:

1. Community and Belonging: Supporting a team creates a sense of identity and connection with others.

2. Entertainment and Drama: Sports offer suspense, surprise, and high-stakes moments that mimic storytelling.

3. Inspiration and Aspiration: Athletes pushing their limits can inspire people to pursue their own goals.

4. Competition and Challenge: Sports tap into our natural competitive instincts, both as participants and spectators.

5. Tradition and Culture: Many people grow up with sports as a family or cultural tradition.

6. Emotional Release: Cheering, celebrating, or even venting after a loss provides a powerful emotional outlet.



No sports team has me in a bigger chokehold more then the Avalanche. It's like a god damn abusive relationship at this point. Right now I f***ing hate them but I'll be crawling back to them on my knees by Oct 2025.

The bottom is me. I considered once looking for a new team back before mackinnon was drafted... And then I went thru the mental list of all our prospects and picks and etc... And decided I've just committed too much brain power to this team and I can never take that time to get into a new one. Av fan for life even tho currently I'm in a hate relationship with hockey cause of another first round exit lol

 

[niwotsblessing]

This. Ive been quiet for a few days, but Rantanen really only put up 2 great periods of hockey and 3 good games of points. He's always been capable of that. But the more he doesn't put in the effort, the sooner he's going to decline and people are going to get tired of his schtick.

Doesn't change the narrative for the Avs this season sadly. They invested in someone that didn't fit the team (Nelson) and a bunch of the rest of the team didn't show up in the post-season. Dallas is voodoo for the Avs. It's just a shame we're probably going to see the team meander through the good-great divide for another 3-5 years and unless they strike some luck, eventually decline into average and slide into rebuilding as MacK declines.

Funny enough, salary cap really hurt them again with 3 years of it frozen.

Nelson did not fit Bednar’s inflexible style.

 

[Grackle Party]

So are we expecting a whole bunch of nothing from the presser today?

 

[BednarIsStupid]

Hey, chill! Now we have the cap flexibility to offer contracts to all those free agents that won't want to come to Colorado!

Coaching issue. This time they took Dallas to 7 games with Rantanen on their team.

 

[avsfan2189]

I simply disagree.

After a couple of days of contemplation, I can honestly say at absolutely no point in this season did the Avs look like a dominate Stanley Cup Champion.

The entire bump they saw in chances was based simply on names/history and not on current ability or coaching.

did you watch game 4? that was 2022 avs

 

[avsfan2189]

if TB fires Cooper you 10000% go after him

then funnily enough Bednar gets hired by TB lol

 

[BednarIsStupid]

DEI coach?

Stupid coach that continues to be employed.