2025 NHL DRAFT Thread

[Muffinalt]

It doesn´t matter how I feel and I can´t remember ever claiming that Hawks should pick Frondell or that his ceiling is that high or anything like that. I happen to like his game and what he did in Allsvenskan. For some reason he is considered as top draft pick this year by many so it is not just my opinion. But then someone here declares that his ceiling is 3rd liner etc. and that is bothering me.

Yeah that's fair enough. I thought that hyperbole was unnecessary as well.

 

[statswatcher]

Solely and predominantly are two different things.

sure, different strengths of the same claim. i am arguing against either.

There are other factors which can and will effect those abilities, but if he is already pretty strong, it's literally common sense to question just how much stronger he can get.

asking "this kid is strong, how much stronger can he get" is not the same question as "this kid is strong, how much better at pk can he get", "how much harder can his shot get", etc.

if hes already good at physical battles because he's... strong, how much better do you expect him to realistically get at it?

if he's already so strong that you can't "realistically" expect him to get much better at it as an nhl player, that would seem far more like a *selling point for frondell* rather than a reason to take caution. that is less a matter of *lacking runway* so much as it is a matter of having *already taken off*.

I feel like I'm talking about a really basic point.

you are, and that's why you are drawing overly simplistic conclusions.

How about you show some basic respect, like most posters are able to when replying to others?

woe is you, someone was terse with you on the internet. rest assured, i will do better.

 

[Space umpire]

Just like everyone else at this point and that is why they are called prospects. And that is why it is so exciting to keep track on them because you don´t know how they will grow. There are a lot of top draft picks (first round) who never gets to the NHL and then there are players who are drafted lower and they become very good or even star players. That is why I wouldn´t make bold predictions on draft eligible players ceilings or so even in message board. But that is just me.

Did you just post an opinion on a message board stating that people should not posting opinions on a message board?

 

[Muffinalt]

sure, different strengths of the same claim. i am arguing against either.

So let me get this clear, you're saying it has zero relevancy how much along he is in his physical development?

asking "this kid is strong, how much stronger can he get" is not the same question as "this kid is strong, how much better at pk can he get", "how much harder can his shot get", etc.

Okay you used the two examples from the 8 I listed above, which are of course the least black and white and furthest on the skill spectrum. These were the rest: 'handling physicality, shielding pucks, getting through bodies, scoring in front of the net, board battles'. You're saying strength development has a negligible impact in those areas? I heavily disagree.

if he's already so strong that you can't "realistically" expect him to get much better at it as an nhl player, that would seem far more like a *selling point for frondell* rather than a reason to take caution. that is less a matter of *lacking runway* so much as it is a matter of having *already taken off*.

It's obviously a plus that he's strong already, and I've said that before (strange pattern of you ignoring like half my posts). But it's not a plus when you're thinking about how much more he has to go in that department, no. It's not an end all be all negative, but it's not a plus.

you are, and that's why you are drawing overly simplistic conclusions.

You are drawing those conclusions for me, for some reason. I've stated multiple times why I think he has less runway in that department, not that he will never ever success there.

woe is you, someone was terse with you on the internet. rest assured, i will do better.

Nah bro, you just keep doing you, it's classy. I have no interest in discussing things with you if you ignore half my posts, take my opinions for 'authoritative parroting', and talk down to me.

 

[statswatcher]

So let me get this clear, you're saying it has zero relevancy how much along he is in his physical development?

on a case by case basis.

Okay you used the two examples from the 8 I listed above, which are of course the least black and white and furthest on the skill spectrum.

actually that's what i did the first time when i listed pk and defensive skills and net front scoring. add shot strength to that list and you are up to 4 of 8 categories where it's not obvious that pure muscle mass is the sole nor even predominate limiting factor. i am capable of recognizing that there are different dimensions to look at here, and what i'm saying is that in each of these cases i find what you are saying to be either mostly or entirely unconvincing.

It's obviously a plus that he's strong already, and I've said that before (strange pattern of you ignoring like half my posts). But it's not a plus when you're thinking about how much more he has to go in that department, no.

doesn't it strike you as strange that according to this line of thought we should be worried about how little a prospect needs to do to be physically prepared for the nhl? like maybe this way of framing the question is pointless?

You are drawing those conclusions for me, for some reason. I've stated multiple times why I think he has less runway in that department, not that he will never ever success there.

what does it matter how much "runway" he has in an area you seem to be saying you believe he is already well developed in? shouldn't it matter more how much "runway" he has in areas he still needs to improve?

to my mind, what you are after is a convincing argument that a prospect who is more physically mature prima facie has a lower ceiling for future development than one who is physically less mature. that is the most charitable way i can restate the thesis without having it collapse into pure meaninglessness. it relies on the unspoken assumption that adding muscle mass is an easier way to improve shortcomings than improving "iq and skills", and as such smaller prospects have an easier path to rounding out their game at the professional level. it's rule of thumb that sounds good when you say it without thinking about it but actually offers no useful information whatsoever.

Nah bro, you just keep doing you, it's classy. I have no interest in discussing things with you if you ignore half my posts, take my opinions for 'authoritative parroting', and talk down to me.

i ignore the parts of posts that have no bearing on the topic at hand. you are free to do the same should you make the same determination.

 

[ColbyChaos]

If anyone upped hisxdraftcsticked nest at u18s ,it was Brady Martin..

Ranked at 11-13on smany lists beforevthe u18s,he confirmed or opened even more eyes with his impact in games..
Already considered the best body checker in the draft ,and known for his uber compete level,pace,2 way play ,shot and physicality,what surprised me was that his best offensive weapon from scouting reports(his shot...can pick corners...hard writer and one-tiner) was Not his best weaponat thevu18s...he could have had a lot more goals given the chances he created for hinself off puck rushes and takibg it to the net...he was off target or mist-tinedvonsrveral God shotyng attemots..but if you lok atvhim I thebohl his shot did shine.. Rather what shone at tgevu18sxwas how relentless hexwss on the forecheck and getting to loose pucks and keeping pkay going on attack off that...and his defensive back-checkibg or againhustlingbto getvto loose pucks turning into transition rushes attacking tgevotger way..of counsethebohysicakity and hits impressed.. he was just a force on so many shifts.

He also showed impeccable screening ability.He won board battles.. he controlled the puck onrushes both going through checkers and around checkers and aroubd checkers...He choked he could ligbot from high on one side all the way aroubd and out thebotger side and swinging back across the top to then dish off and keep attack pisession lengthy time..
He showed me A Lot.
This is tge guy you want to go to war with.

The Hawks do not have a ojayer lije this..

But tge kist surprising thing was how goid in my eyes he skated...His speed was to me outstanding.. I lkjexvhis rish abilities and transition taking pucks of interceptions and gkibg thevotgercwah from his d-zobe to the opposition zone.
Hexwsx impressive to me in every aspect exceot what his best offensive weapon was suposexcto be (his shot which somehow was off for him ...
He had a mistake impressive u18 with how he impacted the game..Had his best goL s oring gMr of the tournament i the Gold Medallion win game,had 3 g 8a for the tournament despite beibg thrown out of the semi-final game early with a gNe misconduct on a 5 minute interference penalty off a late hit (which was late but not dirty..did nit leave his feet to lauch into it or norxwas any head hit involved...tge injured Swrde later returned so you wonder if that kid embellished how bad he lokedvinjured? Ido not think it merited a 5 minute penalty .but at the tine I guess refs thought the injury was very serious).

In any case , yes itcwas dumb to do a hit after tgevouck long gone off the guy's stick..but maybe I tge NHL he might have one lyvgotcax2 minute interference penalty?

In any case.. drslitecthisvincidebt,he by far impressed me more than anybody at tgevu18s.

Now he is listedxatc6'0 175 but he just looks bigger to me ...

In his interviews hebloijsctovakreadu have a thick frame and bone structure.. You can see he will fill out even more..He dies notblok lankycatcall..
This kid isca beast ..tgectenacity..relentless effort and physicality alone make home a great p respect to add to a team..but if his known good shot was not so absent ,he coukd have hadc5 orc6 more goals o ff great scoring chances to add to his piubts forvtge tournament.. He also was an important factor on several goals by Canada in the tournament where he did not get an assist..So ne gols where his screen was instrumental in the goals or hi. Hitting to pucks and keeping g itvin the zone in 4th touch goals
had to be noted by scouts for the helping role he pjayex in an eventual sequence resuktingbina goal

So as Craig Butgon stated...do not be surprised if Martin goes top ten.. even top 5 ..

And this puts him into my candidate for tge #3or#4 if the Hawks land at eitger of those spots.

The candidates are :
Porter Martone Winger
Caleb Desnoyers 2 way C
Or
Brady Martin C or, RW*

At u18s Martin played RW

But I the OHL he pkayed C for his team.


Martonevis 6'3 212lbs already..Very good puck-handklng offebsive ability and physical play ...but sone areas has to improve : in defensive suport ,consistency of effort,pace...
Tge Big Power Forward with sjill teams crave...but you wonder about msijbg conpete level in sone games or i sobe shifts of games.Tge talent is there..but sonethibg at times looks missing.Top line talent..but is he always "tgere"?

Desnoyers ...excellent 2 way C ...projects as a 2C with maybe 69-70pint nhl level impact..

Maybe Martin also only 60-70 pint ceiling.. but contributes in so many itger ways ..leader...physicality...relentless effort ..It woukd be great to add a pkayer with hus abilities to lift and inspire the whole teM ..
I think KD woukd stock with the consensus higher rated Martone or Drsnoyers maybe ...but after this impressive Brady Martin total impact dhow at thebu18s maybe KD woukd want to add this type of inspired player to show tgecrsdt ofctge Hawks how to pmay tge game with pssdionand tenacious effort(maybe he can inspire Brdard or Nazar to eve greater impacts)...

Hawjs coujd do a kot worse by betting on anotger guy at at the #3or#4..

SO yes. I think Craig Botgon is correct.. Brady Martin Shoukd be i co sidestep for a top 5 spot .. eve a top 3 or 4 spit in my opinion.

Coaches will love hom...Fans will love hom.

Tge very thought of hom on a Nazar kibe ...you woukd be getgibgvso many break-awayszand 2 on1s...it woukd be delicious..

If tgecscouti g reports on Martin stated only above average skatibg but not ekite..that idea was dispelled to my eyes..he was plenty fast all over thevice..You gottalovexan inspired hockey pkayer who gives it all every shift.. He left checkers in the dust on rushes.. tgat is goidcenough for me.He also is very very strongbon his skates and both gores tgro ugh and aroubd checkers...

I was totally impressed by Martin.

Ugh good luck @TeeEyeFiddyTree

 

[Space umpire]

Yeah that's fair enough. I thought that hyperbole was unnecessary as well.

So, someone's OPINION on where a player will top out differs from the OPINIONS of others (posted or not).
And this clearly means those posters shouldn’t post the different OPINIONS?
On a hockey message board.
In a thread designed to discuss prospects.

Funny thing is the 3 of you have pretty much ruined this thread acting like 4th graders. Seems optimal to have a mod. stop it.
Anyone who thinks opinions of players don’t have a home on boards such as this probably should avoid boards such as this.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Gonna have to swap out my Dach 77 jersey for a Misa 77 come Monday

 

[Muffinalt]

So, someone's OPINION on where a player will top out differs from the OPINIONS of others (posted or not).
And this clearly means those posters shouldn’t post the different OPINIONS?
On a hockey message board.
In a thread designed to discuss prospects.

Funny thing is the 3 of you have pretty much ruined this thread acting like 4th graders. Seems optimal to have a mod. stop it.
Anyone who thinks opinions of players don’t have a home on boards such as this probably should avoid boards such as this.

?

I literally posted this just today:

How would you feel if everytime you post about Frondell with not much context, I'd be there in the next post pointing out how, lest we/you forget, your opinion is in fact merely just your opinion and nobody should draw any conclusions based on it (ignore it? it's wrong? you don't agree with it or like it? I'm not sure what your subtext intention is with post).

I'm all for healthy discussion, actually I'm always excited to see someone quoted me because I'm hoping for some back and forth about opinions, details of prospects, topics, whatnot. To see it's once again a post pointing out that hey my opinion is my opinion, it makes me feel bad to be honest.

Anyway I'm all for going back to the draft talk.

 

[Space umpire]

?

I literally posted this just today:



Anyway I'm all for going back to the draft talk.

My reply was intended to who you were responding to.

 

[BHawks77]

Jesus christ, where did I say those things are solely muscle related? I mean sorry, where did I 'parrot' it? My bad for replying to this point brought up - checks notes - all of 3 times in the last 2 months.

How much someone has already filled out their frame has literally always been a factor in previous drafts. Not some end all be all or sole factor (and I'm always making it a point to state that clearly despite what you are insinuating above), but it's there and it exists. If you chose to ignore it - ok fine, you do you.

Authoritative... Lmao ok. This isn't a pissing context, it's a conversation - or at least its trying to be.

Frondell is 17 year old, believe me he can get plenty more stronger with NHL training! Like I said before man strenght is are real thing.

Also using your frame and strenght are a thing that comes naturally to some players and for some it doesnt. Dylan Strome is a good example he has the frame but playes weak and not willing to use his body!!

We shouldnt discount Frondell because he is 200 lbs already. He has a good frame and willing to use and to build on!!

 

[statswatcher]

So, someone's OPINION on where a player will top out differs from the OPINIONS of others (posted or not).
And this clearly means those posters shouldn’t post the different OPINIONS?
On a hockey message board.
In a thread designed to discuss prospects.

Funny thing is the 3 of you have pretty much ruined this thread acting like 4th graders. Seems optimal to have a mod. stop it.
Anyone who thinks opinions of players don’t have a home on boards such as this probably should avoid boards such as this.

no one has ruined anything. thread is fine. if you see something that doesn't interest you or warrant a response, scroll past. works great for me.

 

[TheFridge]

Gonna have to swap out my Dach 77 jersey for a Misa 77 come Monday

You bought a Dach jersey? That was bold.

I can't bring myself to buy a jersey for someone that isn't going to spend most of their career here.

 

[Kevin Musto]

You bought a Dach jersey? That was bold.

I can't bring myself to buy a jersey for someone that isn't going to spend most of their career here.

not that bold to buy the jersey of a top 3 pick

 

[TheFridge]

not that bold to buy the jersey of a top 3 pick

I mean, Dach was far from consensus in that spot and it's not like he ever looked like a future core player at any point between his production and injuries.

 

[ColbyChaos]

I mean, Dach was far from consensus in that spot and it's not like he ever looked like a future core player at any point between his production and injuries.

Bubble playoffs Dach looked even better than the imaginary elite player Musto frequently pretends Dylan Strome is.
Plus 77 just looks sick as hell as a jersey

 

[x Tame Impala]

I’m not buying your jersey unless you won a Cup here.

 

[Drumman44]

I’m not buying your jersey unless you won a Cup here.

There goes my Semborski shirsey

 

[Kevin Musto]

I’m not buying your jersey unless you won a Cup here.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Dude was a monster in 13. They just let Q have his toy too long.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

Dude was a monster in 13. They just let Q have his toy too long.

He was playing great in 2015 too until he snapped his ankle in half.

 

[ClydeLee]

I mean.. I can't talk I have a Igor Koralev jersey. Which in the past I almost had gotten a Brouwer plate for, but after the lokomotiv tragedy I would never

 

[Kevin Musto]

Dude was a monster in 13. They just let Q have his toy too long.

That's true

I just got really sick of him toward the end

 

[Mjul Qvist]

Did you just post an opinion on a message board stating that people should not posting opinions on a message board?

No I didn´t. That was not my intention at all. Sorry if someone took it that way. Maybe my point was lost in translation or something?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

He was playing great in 2015 too until he snapped his ankle in half.

He was hot garbage 95% of the year in 15.