2025 NHL DRAFT Thread

[ColbyChaos]

You were fine when they did that in 2019.

 

[Mjul Qvist]

You don't see anything wrong with drafting a 3rd line winger 3rd overall?

Yes we get it you don´t like Frondell. Point taken. Seriously he wouldn´t be ranked in top 5 in most of the rankings if scouts and others thinks his potential is like that.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Yes we get it you don´t like Frondell. Point taken. Seriously he wouldn´t be ranked in top 5 in most of the rankings if scouts and others thinks his potential is like that.

I can point to plenty of top 5 ranked prospects that only amounted to 3rd line status or worse

 

[Mjul Qvist]

I can point to plenty of top 5 ranked prospects that only amounted to 3rd line status or worse

Sure. Even Misa could be a bust or Martone becomes fourth liner after all. But when you draft those players in the top your mindset is not like that. You might see Frondell is going to be 3rd liner at best but there is a lot of people who sees it differently. Just because you say it loud doesn´t make it any more right.

 

[Muffinalt]

Yeah, I'm not saying who is or isn't the best. But I see the "logic" the Hawks used to pick Lev over the rest of the pack. His raw ability to play above his weight class with an elite stride at any angle. Hawks see a work in progress with an elite tool they can mold. Frondell already protects his ice with his frame and makes his own space like a pro in his current league against adults. Will it translate? Don't know. In fact, his game at the junior level would likely not be very impressive because he doesn't have all the slick stuff.

I do know this team needs a forward who can back guys the hell off with ease and increase possession time on the walls every shift while being able to put the puck in the net if it comes his way.

I disagree, I think they drafted Levshunov because he had sky high potential with a very good base of tools. But the idea was always that if he can gain consistency defensively and improve his decision making, then we have an absolutely elite defenseman. They went for the potential for sure (along with the high floor).

Frondell has a high floor because he handles the physical part of the game well, but where is his potential? He doesn't carry pucks and can't playmaker much. Are we expecting his shot to be top 10 in the NHL? Him being the most physical forward out there? I think he's a player with a high floor but not many avenues to reach a very high, top 3-5 pick level ceiling.

Actually, KD's drafting in the later lottery/2nd/3rd round is the one where they clearly go for the basic tool kit and not the IQ/ceiling. So I would agree there. But using a top 3 pick like a later pick would suck.

 

[Bubba88]

My answer would be Frondell. Guy can hold his own against grown men and shoot the puck...
Like he couldn't work on areas he needs to get better with - at the age of 17.
He already has something that can be good in the NHL. His shoot.

Only thing would be the knee injuries that would push me away.

 

[Chuck Testa]

its not poor..lol

Looked like the game was too fast for him at the WJHC.

 

[Mjul Qvist]

Frondell has a high floor because he handles the physical part of the game well, but where is his potential? He doesn't carry pucks and can't playmaker much. Are we expecting his shot to be top 10 in the NHL? Him being the most physical forward out there? I think he's a player with a high floor but not many avenues to reach a very high, top 3-5 pick level ceiling.

In his IQ.

“Frondell has excellent hockey sense. He reads how plays are developing and slides into ‘quiet ice’ to make himself available offensively. He has good size and room to add more strength and weight as he matures. Frondell is also generally responsible defensively.”

That is from Jason Bukala for instance. And like Bubba said he has time time to work on his game. I guess no one saw in 2018 that Quinn Hughes is going to be better player than Rasmus Dahlin? Just for example that we don´t how these young players develop and what the finished product will be after all. Frondell has potential like everyone else in this draft. It might be different kind but it´s not like he can´t be really good player when everything is said and done.

 

[Muffinalt]

In his IQ.

“Frondell has excellent hockey sense. He reads how plays are developing and slides into ‘quiet ice’ to make himself available offensively. He has good size and room to add more strength and weight as he matures. Frondell is also generally responsible defensively.”

That is from Jason Bukala for instance. And like Bubba said he has time time to work on his game. I guess no one saw in 2018 that Quinn Hughes is going to be better player than Rasmus Dahlin? Just for example that we don´t how these young players develop and what the finished product will be after all. Frondell has potential like everyone else in this draft. It might be different kind but it´s not like he can´t be really good player when everything is said and done.

That quote sounds to me like he will be better at what he's already good at, which sure, I agree.

But unless he suddenly develops puck handling and playmaking abilities, I think he will always stay at a complimentary piece level, not a line driver. He has never demonstrated that he has those tools.

Look, once again because this is a trend now, I'm not saying Frondell will make zero advancements and improvements in his game. Obviously he will. But if I'm picking at 3 I want someone that drives my line, that can break games open, that will beat defenders and elevate others, make them better.

Honeslty all the guys after the top 2 have big questions marks whether they can do that, but to Frondell has the least tools for that level.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Looked like the game was too fast for him at the WJHC.

Is that the only time you watched him? lol Its far from poor, I'd say its pretty good for someone his size.

 

[Chuck Testa]

Is that the only time you watched him? lol Its far from poor, I'd say its pretty good for someone his size.

Not the first time I watched him but I'll admit that's the last time I've watched him play.

 

[Mjul Qvist]

But unless he suddenly develops puck handling and playmaking abilities, I think he will always stay at a complimentary piece level, not a line driver. He has never demonstrated that he has those tools.

What makes you think he doesn´t have playmaking abilities? I disagree with that and because of his high IQ he can become very good at it.

I´m not saying that Blackhawks should take Frondell with 3rd pick because I don´t actually know enough. I voted for Martone and that is just my gut feeling. But I don´t agree that Frondell hasn´t the potential that is required from top draft pick.

 

[Mjul Qvist]

Could you see Islanders trade their 1st pick to Chicago for 3rd + picks/prospect?

 

[MHO]

I'm likely delusional but I have this feeling that no matter who Kyle from Chicago picks at #3, it's going to be the right guy for them. We can argue about Levshunov over Demidov but that was a matter of a RHD vs. Winger more than who is more talented. In this case, it's going to be a forward unless somehow Schaefer falls to 3 which we all know is not happening.

This is based on nothing but gut feeling and zero science. Probably blind optimism but I'm going with it.

 

[TeeEyeFiddyTree]

• Total Words: 1,705 words
• Total Typos: 302 typos
• Typos as a Percentage: 17.7%

The doom and gloom about not getting the #1 or #2 pick and missing out on sure-fire "stars" like Schaefer or Misa is understandable. But getting another "good player" to specifically help in roles and fit into the top six for the Hawks up front is not a bad situation. There are players better than Misa, not in scoring, of course, but in other aspects of the game.

We need help in a lot of areas to be better in the top six / top two lines, both in scoring and defending.

Anyway, I already posted why Hagens and Frondell are bad fits. Martone is actually not a prototypical power forward as many assume, but rather a very skilled big guy with some, but not optimal, physicality for his size. He has more skill than the usual big forward. But he has areas he needs to improve in, like consistency of effort, defensive awareness, and skating.

Jake O'Brien, playing only 2C and being a June 2007 birthdate, has a longer runway to add mass and strength to his lanky 6'2" frame. Considered the best passer in the draft, he could have the highest ceiling to become a star 1C, but needs more development. He needs to improve strength as he adds weight to his frame, get stronger in his legs for more speed and explosion, and work on his low-volume but high shooting percentage. Maybe these things will work out this coming season as he moves into a more prominent 1C role in Brantford. He needs to up his even-strength scoring while still maintaining his deadly power-play scoring. He is not fully formed yet, but he has the runway to truly reach a star ceiling. Do you gamble on him putting it all together this season and be patient while he plays another year in junior, or do you go for the perhaps more pro-ready Martone at wing, since he already has NHL size and body?

Or do you go for more two-way centers with better defensive abilities than O'Brien, even though they might have less offensive upside but still show decent abilities to score?

Below, I go into a deep dive on the stats of these candidates, but I include Misa in case San Jose goes with Martone to help Celebrini or Smith on the wing.

Stats Breakdown:

First, I give the actual regular-season stats for their games played. Since Misa played more games, I will add equalization totals for the other candidates so that they match with Misa’s GP.

Actual Stats:

• Misa: 65 GP, 284 SHOG, S% 21.8, 62g, 72a, 134 pts, 23 PPG, 21 PPA, 2.06 pts/g, +45
• Martone: 56 GP, 190 SHOG, S% 19.47, 37g, 61a, 98 pts, 7 PPG, 22 PPA, 1.719 pts/g, +19
• Desnoyers: 56 GP, 176 SHOG, S% 19.9, 35g, 49a, 84 pts, 6 PPG, 13 PPA, 1.5 pts/g, +51
• O'Brien: 66 GP, 134 SHOG, S% 23.88, 32g, 66a, 98 pts, 9 PPG, 41 PPA, 1.495 pts/g, -2 (early in the season, I think he was near -20)
• Martin: 57 GP, 202 SHOG, S% 16.33, 33g, 39a, 72 pts, 8 PPG, 5 PPA, 1.26 pts/g, +25

Looking Deeper (SHOG/game):

• Misa: 4.369
• Martone: 3.33
• Desnoyers: 3.14
• O'Brien: 2.03
• Martin: 3.54

So you will note that after Misa, the guy with the highest shot generation is Brady Martin. His low shooting percentage could be because he had less talent around him, making it harder to convert chances compared to the others who had more setup opportunities.

It could also explain why Martin had fewer power-play points — the Soo's power play wasn’t as strong. One guy can't do it all... or it’s unclear if he was even used on PP1 for the Soo.

For Martin’s offensive production, the context of playing on a less talented team does impact what one player can do to score. Keep this in mind.

Now, looking at the Ratio of PP Points to Total Points:

• Misa: 44/134 = 32.83% (90 non-PP points)
• Martone: 29/98 = 29.89% (69 non-PP points)
• Desnoyers: 19/84 = 22.6% (65 non-PP points)
• O'Brien: 50/98 = 51% (48 non-PP points)

This shows how much O’Brien was dependent on the PP for offensive production. He must improve production outside of the power play next season to be a more complete threat and not rely so much on the power play to produce. His move up to 1C should help with this, I think.

• Martin: 13/72 = 18% (just 18% PP-dependent for his offensive production, with a whopping 72% coming in non-PP situations).

We all know the Hawks’ power play was pretty good, but 5x5 play was not very productive. We need better 5x5 players. Maybe Martin should be looked at in the context of playing for a less talented team with weaker power-play setups compared to the other four guys.

Other Considerations:

• Faceoff Stats (Winning %):
  
  • Misa: 51.0%
  • Martone: 36.0% (but took very few draws — he is not a center)
  • Desnoyers: 63.7%
  • O'Brien: 44.7%
  • Martin: 46.2%

Clearly, Desnoyers has the best faceoff win percentage by a lot. However, I recall Misa took more than twice the number of draws that Desnoyers did, suggesting Moncton only uses him for his strong-side draws, not all draws when he’s on the ice.

• Hits:
  
  • Unable to find full hit data, but Google AI found some info on two of the players:
    
    • Desnoyers averages 1.5 “hard hits” per game.
    • Martin averages more than 3 hard hits per game.

The context of these hit totals is important, especially with Martin, as many scouting reports say he’s the best hitter in the draft and plays a tough, physical game. He’s bigger than his 6’0", 178-pound frame suggests and should be able to put on more weight. If he’s this physical at 178 pounds, imagine what he could do as he adds weight.

Adjusted Points to 65 GP (same as Misa played):

• Misa: 65 GP, 62g, 72a, 134 pts, +45
• Martone (projected): 42g, 70a = 112 pts
• Desnoyers (projected): 41g, 57a = 98 pts
• O'Brien: 97 pts (32g, 65a)
• Martin (projected): 38g, 44a = 82 pts

Takeaway:

How many more points would Brady Martin have put up if, instead of playing for the 14th worst team in the OHL (out of 20 teams), he played with better talent, like the others we’ve looked at? If he had a better power play, his numbers could have been much better.

We need to consider the context of the teams these players are on, especially for Martin. He played on a weaker team but was still their top scorer. Eyes on the ice and his relentless work ethic stand out. Imagine if he had better talent around him.

Other Thoughts:

If we can’t land Misa, Martin could be a great option, but Desnoyers is also a strong contender. Both compete hard and can help us, but can they help this season?

Maybe Martone, with his size and physicality, can play right away, adding size to our wing. He might have more offensive talent than Desnoyers or Martin, but will he compete as hard?

Tough decisions ahead.

Forget the doom and gloom. We will get a good player of some kind. As long as KD avoids the shrimp and slow types (like Hagens and Frondell), we should get a forward who helps us in some way.

Maybe we still get Misa if San Jose goes for Martone as the winger they need to balance out their top six up front. If they need wingers, maybe they leave Misa for us.

Or maybe they make a deal with us for an extra pick or player — Bertuzzi, Allan, or Crevier?

Maybe NYI trades down with SJ, and they take Schaefer and then trade down again with us for some extra

 

[Chelios]

I'm likely delusional but I have this feeling that no matter who Kyle from Chicago picks at #3, it's going to be the right guy for them. We can argue about Levshunov over Demidov but that was a matter of a RHD vs. Winger more than who is more talented. In this case, it's going to be a forward unless somehow Schaefer falls to 3 which we all know is not happening.

This is based on nothing but gut feeling and zero science. Probably blind optimism but I'm going with it.

I feel similarly.

Drafting, so far, I feel like has been a strong point for KD. I will give the benefit of the doubt to whoever we pick.

 

[statswatcher]

The doom and gloom about not getting the #1 or #2 pick and missing out on sure-fire "stars" like Schaefer or Misa is understandable. But getting another "good player" to specifically help in roles and fit into the top six for the Hawks up front is not a bad situation. There are players better than Misa, not in scoring, of course, but in other aspects of the game.

We need help in a lot of areas to be better in the top six / top two lines, both in scoring and defending.

Anyway, I already posted why Hagens and Frondell are bad fits. Martone is actually not a prototypical power forward as many assume, but rather a very skilled big guy with some, but not optimal, physicality for his size. He has more skill than the usual big forward. But he has areas he needs to improve in, like consistency of effort, defensive awareness, and skating.

Jake O'Brien, playing only 2C and being a June 2007 birthdate, has a longer runway to add mass and strength to his lanky 6'2" frame. Considered the best passer in the draft, he could have the highest ceiling to become a star 1C, but needs more development. He needs to improve strength as he adds weight to his frame, get stronger in his legs for more speed and explosion, and work on his low-volume but high shooting percentage. Maybe these things will work out this coming season as he moves into a more prominent 1C role in Brantford. He needs to up his even-strength scoring while still maintaining his deadly power-play scoring. He is not fully formed yet, but he has the runway to truly reach a star ceiling. Do you gamble on him putting it all together this season and be patient while he plays another year in junior, or do you go for the perhaps more pro-ready Martone at wing, since he already has NHL size and body?

Or do you go for more two-way centers with better defensive abilities than O'Brien, even though they might have less offensive upside but still show decent abilities to score?

Below, I go into a deep dive on the stats of these candidates, but I include Misa in case San Jose goes with Martone to help Celebrini or Smith on the wing.

Stats Breakdown:

First, I give the actual regular-season stats for their games played. Since Misa played more games, I will add equalization totals for the other candidates so that they match with Misa’s GP.

Actual Stats:

• Misa: 65 GP, 284 SHOG, S% 21.8, 62g, 72a, 134 pts, 23 PPG, 21 PPA, 2.06 pts/g, +45
• Martone: 56 GP, 190 SHOG, S% 19.47, 37g, 61a, 98 pts, 7 PPG, 22 PPA, 1.719 pts/g, +19
• Desnoyers: 56 GP, 176 SHOG, S% 19.9, 35g, 49a, 84 pts, 6 PPG, 13 PPA, 1.5 pts/g, +51
• O'Brien: 66 GP, 134 SHOG, S% 23.88, 32g, 66a, 98 pts, 9 PPG, 41 PPA, 1.495 pts/g, -2 (early in the season, I think he was near -20)
• Martin: 57 GP, 202 SHOG, S% 16.33, 33g, 39a, 72 pts, 8 PPG, 5 PPA, 1.26 pts/g, +25

Looking Deeper (SHOG/game):

• Misa: 4.369
• Martone: 3.33
• Desnoyers: 3.14
• O'Brien: 2.03
• Martin: 3.54

So you will note that after Misa, the guy with the highest shot generation is Brady Martin. His low shooting percentage could be because he had less talent around him, making it harder to convert chances compared to the others who had more setup opportunities.

It could also explain why Martin had fewer power-play points — the Soo's power play wasn’t as strong. One guy can't do it all... or it’s unclear if he was even used on PP1 for the Soo.

For Martin’s offensive production, the context of playing on a less talented team does impact what one player can do to score. Keep this in mind.

Now, looking at the Ratio of PP Points to Total Points:

• Misa: 44/134 = 32.83% (90 non-PP points)
• Martone: 29/98 = 29.89% (69 non-PP points)
• Desnoyers: 19/84 = 22.6% (65 non-PP points)
• O'Brien: 50/98 = 51% (48 non-PP points)

This shows how much O’Brien was dependent on the PP for offensive production. He must improve production outside of the power play next season to be a more complete threat and not rely so much on the power play to produce. His move up to 1C should help with this, I think.

• Martin: 13/72 = 18% (just 18% PP-dependent for his offensive production, with a whopping 72% coming in non-PP situations).

We all know the Hawks’ power play was pretty good, but 5x5 play was not very productive. We need better 5x5 players. Maybe Martin should be looked at in the context of playing for a less talented team with weaker power-play setups compared to the other four guys.

Other Considerations:

• Faceoff Stats (Winning %):
  
  • Misa: 51.0%
  • Martone: 36.0% (but took very few draws — he is not a center)
  • Desnoyers: 63.7%
  • O'Brien: 44.7%
  • Martin: 46.2%

Clearly, Desnoyers has the best faceoff win percentage by a lot. However, I recall Misa took more than twice the number of draws that Desnoyers did, suggesting Moncton only uses him for his strong-side draws, not all draws when he’s on the ice.

• Hits:
  
  • Unable to find full hit data, but Google AI found some info on two of the players:
    
    • Desnoyers averages 1.5 “hard hits” per game.
    • Martin averages more than 3 hard hits per game.

The context of these hit totals is important, especially with Martin, as many scouting reports say he’s the best hitter in the draft and plays a tough, physical game. He’s bigger than his 6’0", 178-pound frame suggests and should be able to put on more weight. If he’s this physical at 178 pounds, imagine what he could do as he adds weight.

Adjusted Points to 65 GP (same as Misa played):

• Misa: 65 GP, 62g, 72a, 134 pts, +45
• Martone (projected): 42g, 70a = 112 pts
• Desnoyers (projected): 41g, 57a = 98 pts
• O'Brien: 97 pts (32g, 65a)
• Martin (projected): 38g, 44a = 82 pts

Takeaway:

How many more points would Brady Martin have put up if, instead of playing for the 14th worst team in the OHL (out of 20 teams), he played with better talent, like the others we’ve looked at? If he had a better power play, his numbers could have been much better.

We need to consider the context of the teams these players are on, especially for Martin. He played on a weaker team but was still their top scorer. Eyes on the ice and his relentless work ethic stand out. Imagine if he had better talent around him.

Other Thoughts:

If we can’t land Misa, Martin could be a great option, but Desnoyers is also a strong contender. Both compete hard and can help us, but can they help this season?

Maybe Martone, with his size and physicality, can play right away, adding size to our wing. He might have more offensive talent than Desnoyers or Martin, but will he compete as hard?

Tough decisions ahead.

Forget the doom and gloom. We will get a good player of some kind. As long as KD avoids the shrimp and slow types (like Hagens and Frondell), we should get a forward who helps us in some way.

Maybe we still get Misa if San Jose goes for Martone as the winger they need to balance out their top six up front. If they need wingers, maybe they leave Misa for us.

Or maybe they make a deal with us for an extra pick or player — Bertuzzi, Allan, or Crevier?

Maybe NYI trades down with SJ, and they take Schaefer and then trade down again with us for some extra

this hf boards account is gonna single handedly bankrupt openai with inference compute costs

 

[Kevin Musto]

What makes you think he doesn´t have playmaking abilities? I disagree with that and because of his high IQ he can become very good at it.

I´m not saying that Blackhawks should take Frondell with 3rd pick because I don´t actually know enough. I voted for Martone and that is just my gut feeling. But I don´t agree that Frondell hasn´t the potential that is required from top draft pick.

Watch a full game from Frondell... he struggles with completing passes. They're not even passes with high degree of difficulty. They just get picked off all the time.

Im not saying he's dumb, but he's definitely not a high IQ player.

 

[giza]

Not everyone has to skate like the wind to be effective. A comparison for Martone was Mark Stone.....give me some physicality, high hockey IQ, net presence.....need to balance it all out. I think I would take Desnoyers over Frondell by an eyelash.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Not everyone has to skate like the wind to be effective. A comparison for Martone was Mark Stone.....give me some physicality, high hockey IQ, net presence.....need to balance it all out. I think I would take Desnoyers over Frondell by an eyelash.

I highly doubt Martone will ever have Stone's two way play.

that's Selke level.

 

[ClydeLee]

I highly doubt Martone will ever have Stone's two way play.

that's Selke level.

I thought you wrote Strome at first glance and got bewildered... not that you wouldn't say that anyway

 

[BHawk21]

Im back to coming around on Hagens. If hes the best player take the best player. Sell Lardis sell Kantserov if you need too.

 

[BHawks77]

Watch a full game from Frondell... he struggles with completing passes. They're not even passes with high degree of difficulty. They just get picked off all the time.

Im not saying he's dumb, but he's definitely not a high IQ player.

I dont know what you are watching if this is your take, there was post here that had shift to shift game and his passing was sharp, quick and on point. Sure he didnt try anything super fancy but in the NHL smart, quick and play advancing passing is what works. That is what people are complaining (too much fancy playes that work mostly only in junior level) in Bedards game on this forum.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I dont know what you are watching if this is your take, there was post here that had shift to shift game and his passing was sharp, quick and on point. Sure he didnt try anything super fancy but in the NHL smart, quick and play advancing passing is what works. That is what people are complaining (too much fancy playes that work mostly only in junior level) in Bedards game on this forum.

what I'm watching is multiple games throughout the season

his passing isn't a strength and neither is his IQ

he's a physically mature big kid that can win board battles and has a good shot that requires others to set him up for

that's all he is

 

[HawksDub89]

Listening to Cam Robinson and Chris Peters do their mock draft.

Cam took Martone for Chicago and seemed genuinely disgusted at the buzz about Frondell going 3rd. “They don’t need another middle six center”

Cam doesn’t understand the Frondell hype at all. Basically said you’d be leaving a ton of upside on the table taking him that high.

They did mention the possibility of Chicago moving up to take Misa.

The Frondell opinions are very interesting to me. I tend to lean toward him being a decent 2C, but I completely understand the concern with his limited ceiling and not great U18.

My current top 5
1. Schaefer
2. Misa
3. Martone
4. Hagens
5. Desnoyers (growing on me big time)