HF Habs: 2025 NHL Draft: Part II

[waitin425]

I would rather have O'brien then Desnoyers TBH

In order of C

Hagens
O'Brien
Desnoyers
Frondell

Misa
Martin
Hagens
Desnoyers
Frondell
O'Brien

 

[Adam Michaels]

Carbonneau won't make his decision on if he stays in the Q or goes to the NCAA. He wants to talk with the club that drafts him to discuss what they believe is the better route they feel he should take.

 

[WeThreeKings]

O'Brien will answer the question, what if Ben Maxwell was drafted in the new NHL

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Misa
Martin
Hagens
Desnoyers
Frondell
O'Brien

Think Hagens will be a winger in the NHL personally, probably why he's going to drop out of the top 10.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Wasn’t that a full tear though? And Krebs has a different playstyle to Bear, it could just be that which has him disappoint. A perimeter player that isn’t particularly big.

Exactly. Bear game has never been about his skating. It's all about his work rate, intensity and ability to generate high volume chances. That won't go away with his injury.

 

[le_sean]

Carbonneau won't make his decision on if he stays in the Q or goes to the NCAA. He wants to talk with the club that drafts him to discuss what they believe is the better route they feel he should take.

You’d think the acquisitions of Zonnon and Gill would entice him to stay to try and play for a championship. Blainville will have one heck of a team

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I do see 3rd line potential if all goes well, but not much further than that. He doesn’t seem to have the IQ for it.

David St. Louis says he saw some good playmaking from him when he was used at the top of the circle on the PP. But I feel it was just his anticipation for where his teammates are supposed to be with the man advantage than actual scanning.

It looks like his true upside is Josh Anderson. I would think playoff teams would trade the 17th pick for Anderson right now. So I get it if Bobrov targets him.

See I am not fine with that line of thought. We did similar when we drafted McCarron. We wanted size for the playoff and apparently we had to draft size but next thing you know he was out of the club after 4 years. Personally if we want size we trade for size when we are ready to compete, even if he have to pay a 1st. I think you need to draft the best value with top draft pick and talent is the key.

 

[le_sean]

See I am not fine with that line of thought. We did similar when we drafted McCarron. We wanted size for the playoff and apparently we had to draft size but next thing you know he was out of the club after 4 years. Personally if we want size we trade for size when we are ready to compete, even if he have to pay a 1st. I think you need to draft the best value with top draft pick and talent is the key.

I get it but they are different players. It didn’t help that the Habs were more interested in developing McCarron as a fighter rather than concentrating on his actual hockey abilities. In the right environment with proper coaching, Prokhorov could become something of a unique player.

I’d rather go for talent as well, but with two picks, I would understand the homerun swing.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Size and physicality are two important components of winning in the NHL. Zegras and Drouin are more skilled than Bennett but I'll tell you who i would want on my roster.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Size and physicality are two important components of winning in the NHL. Zegras and Drouin are more skilled than Bennett but I'll tell you who i would want on my roster.

Yes but also Bennett came in a trade. Tkachuk came in a trade. Marchand came in a trade. As I have said, I would rather trade for an established player with physicality to help us get over the line then over draft for it. I have seen so much waste in the first round on size over the years : McCarron, Biggs, Crouse, Virtanen, Ritchie, McIlrath were all over drafted for their size and physicality.
If we are talking for 2nd round pick and later, draft all the size you want.

 

[Kennerback]

His whole game is a gimmick. I see a glorified 4th liner.

I love Prokhorov. We need more sobering evaluations to bring us back down to earth. You’re keeping us honest.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Size and physicality are two important components of winning in the NHL. Zegras and Drouin are more skilled than Bennett but I'll tell you who i would want on my roster.

Wow you really went out on a limb there saying you'd want the current Conn Smythe winner on your team. I hope Hughes is listening.

 

[HabsMD97]

by this logic neither do the scouts of the team that has been to back to back finals since the oilers d couldn’t handle it lol

sometimes you let the draft come to you especially in the middle of the first, if the best two players left are skilled wingers take them and figure the rest out elsewhere imo

Yes correct, the oilers management team sucks, they thought they didn't need a goalie lol, they've gone a decade with the 2 best players in the NHL without winning a cup. They are one of the worst drafting teams in the league. Not sure you wanna use the oilers as an example of a smart organization we should copy lol

 

[HabsMD97]

I still maintain that wing is where the Habs are weakest in their prospect pool anyways. It’s just people overlook it because of Cole, Demidov and Slaf. But if you want to compete for the Cup, you need at least 3 strong lines capable of tilting the ice. Right now our best winger in the system is Joshua Roy. That’s really not good enough.

We have no one in line to take over Laine’s spot in a year. We have no one in line to take over Anderson and Gallagher in a couple of years.

You can easily get wingers on the trade market or free agency, also Hage is most likely a winger in the NHL

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yes but also Bennett came in a trade. Tkachuk came in a trade. Marchand came in a trade. As I have said, I would rather trade for an established player with physicality to help us get over the line then over draft for it. I have seen so much waste in the first round on size over the years : McCarron, Biggs, Crouse, Virtanen, Ritchie, McIlrath were all over drafted for their size and physicality.
If we are talking for 2nd round pick and later, draft all the size you want.

Josh Ho Sang went ahead of Kempe. Grigorenko, Galchenyuk and Yakupov went ahead of Tom Wilson. Laine and Puljujarvi went ahead of Tkachuk. There's plenty of examples of 'skilled guys' getting drafted over players with size and physicality.

The reality is that those things matter. No one is arguing to take a Colton Gillies just because hes big. But we are drafting in a range where you are looking at a tier of players and just because someone thinks Reschny or Kindel are the next Point and Aho, doesnt make it so (or they'd be slated to go top 5).

We aren't lacking for skill, we are lacking for players who can play in traffic, dig pucks out, and score in the hard areas. So if there's a player there who might score less points in the regular season but is more impactful in the playoffs ans allows the skilled players on their line to be more successful, that matters.

History is littered with smaller skilled guys who drop eggs when it matters most.

Wow you really went out on a limb there saying you'd want the current Conn Smythe winner on your team. I hope Hughes is listening.

The point is that his package allowed him to be successful in the playoffs to win the Conn Smythe. Where more skilled players are ineffective in that environment. So devaluing the items that make Bennett impactful in the playoffs because his hands, passing and shooting isnt at the level of those guys, is a fundamental flaw in evaluating and rating players for the draft.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Josh Ho Sang went ahead of Kempe. Grigorenko, Galchenyuk and Yakupov went ahead of Tom Wilson. Laine and Puljujarvi went ahead of Tkachuk. There's plenty of examples of 'skilled guys' getting drafted over players with size and physicality.

The reality is that those things matter. No one is arguing to take a Colton Gillies just because hes big. But we are drafting in a range where you are looking at a tier of players and just because someone thinks Reschny or Kindel are the next Point and Aho, doesnt make it so (or they'd be slated to go top 5).

We aren't lacking for skill, we are lacking for players who can play in traffic, dig pucks out, and score in the hard areas. So if there's a player there who might score less points in the regular season but is more impactful in the playoffs ans allows the skilled players on their line to be more successful, that matters.

History is littered with smaller skilled guys who drop eggs when it matters most.




The point is that his package allowed him to be successful in the playoffs to win the Conn Smythe. Where more skilled players are ineffective in that environment. So devaluing the items that make Bennett impactful in the playoffs because his hands, passing and shooting isnt at the level of those guys, is a fundamental flaw in evaluating and rating players for the draft.

Bennett had 90+ points in his draft year playing with nobody in Kingston, what are you on about. He went top 5 in his draft year because he was extremely talented and also had grit.

Yeah I'd also like a physical player (that is also talented enough to score 22 points in 23 games in the playoffs and wins playoffs MVP)

 

[Kennerback]

There has to be very good reasons why 90%+ of public rankings have Prokhorov mid-2nd, 3rd or 4th Round. I’m just trying to pinpoint why.
- If he would be playing with the exact same ease/difficulty in the CHL (scoring a bit less than 0.5 goal a game), would you rank him differently?
- You think he just couldn’t do that in the CHL?
- Even if he would have as much success in the CHL as the MHL, is it that you just don’t like that style, he has no IQ and he’s still a 4th liner?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Bennett had 90+ points in his draft year playing with nobody in Kingston, what are you on about. He went top 5 in his draft year because he was extremely talented and also had grit.

Yeah I'd also like a physical player (that is also talented enough to score 22 points in 23 games in the playoffs and wins playoffs MVP)

Obviously hes talented. But if you stacked his offensive skills up against guys like Zegras and Drouin. He would grade lower than them in most offensive categories. Of course he went high, because NHL teams *value* the physicality and size components as it contributes to winning.

The notion that we should *pick skill over size* as this catch all isnt grasping the fact that players with size and physicality and a willingness to engage and succeed in tough areas, is a component to winning. So just saying we need to take X smaller skilled guy over bigger less skilled guy because we should only draft for the most skilled, is a flawed concept.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

There has to be very good reasons why 90%+ of public rankings have Prokhorov mid-2nd, 3rd or 4th Round. I’m just trying to pinpoint why.
- If he would be playing with the exact same ease/difficulty in the CHL (scoring a bit less than 0.5 goal a game), would you rank him differently?
- You think he just couldn’t do that in the CHL?
- Even if he would have as much success in the CHL as the MHL, is it that you just don’t like that style, he has no IQ and he’s still a 4th liner?

Well 90% of the public rankings just copy each other and make small adjustments to try to make it look like they are scouting and formulating their own opinion.

That's the most infuriating part about it, you just get regurgitated opinions over and over again. In a draft like this that is supposedly wide open after 12, how on earth are all these lists so similar? It makes no sense.

 

[le_sean]

There has to be very good reasons why 90%+ of public rankings have Prokhorov mid-2nd, 3rd or 4th Round. I’m just trying to pinpoint why.
- If he would be playing with the exact same ease/difficulty in the CHL (scoring a bit less than 0.5 goal a game), would you rank him differently?
- You think he just couldn’t do that in the CHL?
- Even if he would have as much success in the CHL as the MHL, is it that you just don’t like that style, he has no IQ and he’s still a 4th liner?

Because you even see in the almost 30 minute video that he has three moves: 1) go behind the net and win a board battle to try a wraparound; 2) go outside and lean into the defender while cutting inside; 3) take a shot as soon as you gain the offensive zone.

Two of those are useful, one is a bad play. The lack of versatility wouldn’t really matter MHL or CHL. You’re also drafting him assuming he fills out he can do similar in the NHL, and maybe you can teach him to scan the ice for better plays. Adam Nicholas helped Slaf with that.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

There has to be very good reasons why 90%+ of public rankings have Prokhorov mid-2nd, 3rd or 4th Round. I’m just trying to pinpoint why.
- If he would be playing with the exact same ease/difficulty in the CHL (scoring a bit less than 0.5 goal a game), would you rank him differently?
- You think he just couldn’t do that in the CHL?
- Even if he would have as much success in the CHL as the MHL, is it that you just don’t like that style, he has no IQ and he’s still a 4th liner?

The kid appears to be completely clueless with low IQ and zero vision. He is far more likely to be a 4th liner or bust all together than be a top six NHLer.

 

[Kennerback]

Because you even see in the almost 30 minute video that he has three moves: 1) go behind the net and win a board battle to try a wraparound; 2) go outside and lean into the defender while cutting inside; 3) take a shot as soon as you gain the offensive zone.

Two of those are useful, one is a bad play. The lack of versatility wouldn’t really matter MHL or CHL. You’re also drafting him assuming he fills out he can do similar in the NHL, and maybe you can teach him to scan the ice for better plays. Adam Nicholas helped Slaf with that.

So the problem is not just the league he’s playing in (the MHL), it’s really do you like that style or not… His poor IQ could hinder him too much in the NHL.

 

[koivalev]

The kid appears to be completely clueless with low IQ and zero vision. He is far more likely to be a 4th liner or bust all together than be a top six NHLer.

I'm not sure anyone disagrees with that, and I'm not sure anyone is expecting him to be a genuine top 6er, but with good development he would be a very valuable player in our bottom 6. I wouldn't take him at 16/17 but a trade up into the late 20s? Sure, take a chance on a guy like that.

 

[DemidovSZN]

There has to be very good reasons why 90%+ of public rankings have Prokhorov mid-2nd, 3rd or 4th Round. I’m just trying to pinpoint why.
- If he would be playing with the exact same ease/difficulty in the CHL (scoring a bit less than 0.5 goal a game), would you rank him differently?
- You think he just couldn’t do that in the CHL?
- Even if he would have as much success in the CHL as the MHL, is it that you just don’t like that style, he has no IQ and he’s still a 4th liner?

I just think people doing public rankings haven’t seen him play or didn’t know him before like February. Also, many of them are copy cats, they saw him being ranked in the 2nd round so they’re doing the same just to be like others and they’re not ranking him higher to not lose ‘’credibility’’.

NHL scouts has him ranked much higher on their lists that’s for sure.

 

[Benstheman]

Do you guys think we have a shot at Martin at 8OA if we trade up with Seattle?