HF Habs: 2025 NHL Draft: Part II

[HuGo Burner Acc]

You should also take into consideration that all of these mock drafts are by fake scouts who often have no hockey background and never see these players live. When Grant mentions Prkhorovy as high as he did the result will be that the other content creators will bump him up their list as well. They are literally in a circular information pool with no connection to actual scouts.

Grant was a part time scout for one season. He was never a scout before or after that again. His connections are not remotely as strong as he makes them out to be and his sense of authority is mostly self generated. He is better than most of the clowns that you will see from Mckeens, THW etc but he has zero connection to any real inside information.

These lists should be looked at as entertainment and perhaps templates for individuals to explore and try and come to their own conclusions.

The only lists that matter are the NHL list that are put together by real scouts who go to real gmes and talk to real prospects as well as their real teammates, real coaches and real family members. We have zero access to these lists other than draft day slip ups where lists are photographed lol. These scouts have watched these prospects for years and are not going off of isolation clips from their most recent work.

Anyways.....my point is that fake scouts chum the water for other fake scouts to feed on and "risers" and "fallers" are often formed in a circular fashion that is within a closed ecosystem with little to no real access to the ecosystem that they are reporting on.

Maybe but you gotta admit he's been pretty spot on with the habs since the rebuild started. Before the 2023 draft, he was even on Marinaro telling everyone that Habs aren't gonna take michkov and that they're more interested in Demidov

 

[WinterLion]

You should also take into consideration that all of these mock drafts are by fake scouts who often have no hockey background and never see these players live. When Grant mentions Prkhorovy as high as he did the result will be that the other content creators will bump him up their list as well. They are literally in a circular information pool with no connection to actual scouts.

Grant was a part time scout for one season. He was never a scout before or after that again. His connections are not remotely as strong as he makes them out to be and his sense of authority is mostly self generated. He is better than most of the clowns that you will see from Mckeens, THW etc but he has zero connection to any real inside information.

These lists should be looked at as entertainment and perhaps templates for individuals to explore and try and come to their own conclusions.

The only lists that matter are the NHL list that are put together by real scouts who go to real gmes and talk to real prospects as well as their real teammates, real coaches and real family members. We have zero access to these lists other than draft day slip ups where lists are photographed lol. These scouts have watched these prospects for years and are not going off of isolation clips from their most recent work.

Anyways.....my point is that fake scouts chum the water for other fake scouts to feed on and "risers" and "fallers" are often formed in a circular fashion that is within a closed ecosystem with little to no real access to the ecosystem that they are reporting on.

Totally...

The only list that matters is the draft day list.

There are a few reputable independent scouting agencies but they often get laughed at because they have strong opinions that are not like the "consensus"...

I do look forward to Bobby Mac's list because it's the best indication of what is really happening inside the team rooms...

 

[David Suzuki]

Might be a second round pick for us.

He'll go in the first IMO. Really good player and the kind of player socuts can easily sell to their GM (big, leader, physical, knows how to play multiple types of game etc...). Really nice player.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Like him or not, Grant rarely hypes up prospects out of nowhere. He’s had high praise for Prokhorov for months now, before you started to see him mocked around the 25th-40th rank.

We all know he is very connected with Trevor Timmins. So watch out Prokhorov to Columbus.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Totally...

The only list that matters is the draft day list.

There are a few reputable independent scouting agencies but they often get laughed at because they have strong opinions that are not like the "consensus"...

I do look forward to Bobby Mac's list because it's the best indication of what is really happening inside the team rooms...

I honestly think they are all nonsense other than Mackenzie's list and that is from a very shallow pool of scouts. He could easily poll 10 other scouts and get a very different list.

 

[le_sean]

You should also take into consideration that all of these mock drafts are by fake scouts who often have no hockey background and never see these players live. When Grant mentions Prokhorov as high as he did the result will be that the other content creators will bump him up their list as well. They are literally in a circular information pool with no connection to actual scouts.

Grant was a part time scout for one season. He was never a scout before or after that again. His connections are not remotely as strong as he makes them out to be and his sense of authority is mostly self generated. He is better than most of the clowns that you will see from Mckeens, THW etc but he has zero connection to any real inside information.

These lists should be looked at as entertainment and perhaps templates for individuals to explore and try and come to their own conclusions.

The only lists that matter are the NHL list that are put together by real scouts who go to real gmes and talk to real prospects as well as their real teammates, real coaches and real family members. We have zero access to these lists other than draft day slip ups where lists are photographed lol. These scouts have watched these prospects for years and are not going off of isolation clips from their most recent work.

Anyways.....my point is that fake scouts chum the water for other fake scouts to feed on and "risers" and "fallers" are often formed in a circular fashion that is within a closed ecosystem with little to no real access to the ecosystem that they are reporting on.

Your disdain for scouting services reeks of jealousy. I’ve never seen someone put such a concerted effort into criticizing these people. Everytime Pronman comes up you have to create a long post about how little credit you give him. Now it’s Grant. Next time it’ll be St. Louis or Scouching or whomever. No one has any credit unless they work for an NHL franchise.

But unfortunately this is a message board of amateur scouts and people with full-time jobs, so they rely on second hand information. There’s nothing wrong with that. I can read a book and have my own interpretation. It doesn’t mean it’s less valid than the opinion of a grad school student and their opinion isn’t less valid than that of a tenured professor.

Just lighten up man and accept that not everyone qualified is going to get hired for the "ideal" job.

 

[WinterLion]

I honestly think they are all nonsense other than Mackenzie's list and that is from a very shallow pool of scouts. He could easily poll 10 other scouts and get a very different list.

Red Line is a good list... but they've got some very hot takes. At least they actually do their own scouting. I'm not sure what happened to Kyle though... he was always good with the USNDT guys going way back...

but yeah I hear you...

 

[WinterLion]

Your disdain for scouting services reeks of jealousy. I’ve never seen someone put such a concerted effort into criticizing these people. Everytime Pronman comes up you have to create a long post about how little credit you give him. Now it’s Grant. Next time it’ll be St. Laurent or Scouching or whomever. No one has any credit unless they work for an NHL franchise.

But unfortunately this is a message board of amateur scouts and people with full-time jobs, so they rely on second hand information. There’s nothing wrong with that. I can read a book and have my own interpretation. It doesn’t mean it’s less valid than the opinion of a grad school student and their opinion isn’t less valid than that of a tenured professor.

Just lighten up man and accept that not everyone qualified is going to get hired for the "ideal" job.

I like the guys that actually scout and have different opinions... even if they are "out there"... I just don't like when the same list gets passed around which then creates this weird "consensus" that was built in an echo chamber...

I actually like to hear what Button has to say... it's wacky but at least it a different opinion... and he was actually in a room at some point making these decisions.

 

[WinterLion]

We all know he is very connected with Trevor Timmins. So watch out Prokhorov to Columbus.

at 14?!?!

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Red Line is a good list... but they've got some very hot takes. At least they actually do their own scouting. I'm not sure what happened to Kyle though... he was always good with the USNDT guys going way back...

but yeah I hear you...

Red Line doesn't have actual scouts either and Woodlief is a cringy nerd. I think Woodlief may have been with central scouting at one point but imo that organization is filled with aspiring scouts who are hoping to get picked up by an NHL club and definitely should not in any way be considered experts.They are better than THW, McKeens and all of the other fake scouting organizations that are primarily ran by middle age troglodytes or beta kids who look like they have never seen grass let alone an ice rink.

I have never purchased the RLR as I have not been overly impressed by their content but perhaps there are contributors there that I have not come across.

There are a couple of guys at EP that I can stomach but I don't consider any individual with any public scouting group to be worthy of being an NHL scout.

These publications can be fun to read and for myself, I am as much scouting the writers as much as I an scouting the players.

David St. Louis of EP is probably the contributor that I feel is the most skilled of the public group and even though I disagree on quite a few of his takes, he has the best knowledge of skating mechanics and more accurately diagnoses strengths and flaws in player's games than anyone from any other public scouting entity.

McCagg and Woodlief have extremely poor knowledge of mechanics and are stubborn with very pedestrian intellects and huge egos. I actually thing Grant has a better feel for prospects than Woodlief and is probably a better forecaster of future success than Kyle. Neither are remotely in St. Louis' league and David has a ways to go to be an NHL scout if that puts into perspective how meaningless most of these personalities opinions on prospects are.

I think we mostly agree, sorry for the long winded replies.

 

[A55P2]

It's a matter of opinion, but the best internet scout in my mind was Yannick St Pierre (Draft Dynasty) who we ended up hiring as our own video scout. He was excellent at breaking down the plays in detail with his videos. There's nothing of this caliber at the moment that I've seen. I don't remember if he was making mocks and whatnot, but his video just helped a lot in making our own conclusions as the viewers.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Maybe but you gotta admit he's been pretty spot on with the habs since the rebuild started. Before the 2023 draft, he was even on Marinaro telling everyone that Habs aren't gonna take michkov and that they're more interested in Demidov

Grant even admits that he has absolutely no connections within the Montreal Canadiens. Thius was just a reiteration of what many believed might be true as Demidov was really getting noticed at that time. Just conflationary conclusions from fans whose tribalism is tuned to hyperbole and finds agency in all events. Sports fans are very much like religious cults where everything is tethered back to their preconceived conclusion and connections that do not exist are presented as facts.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Let's just beef up and draft Prokhorov and West

2 6"6 forwards

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Grant even admits that he has absolutely no connections within the Montreal Canadiens. Thius was just a reiteration of what many believed might be true as Demidov was really getting noticed at that time. Just conflationary conclusions from fans whose tribalism is tuned to hyperbole and finds agency in all events. Sports fans are very much like religious cults where everything is tethered back to their preconceived conclusion and connections that do not exist are presented as facts.

This is pure revisionist history. Nobody and ai mean nobody was saying back in 2023 springtime that the habs are not interest in michkov but prefer and are targeting demidov instead. I'm aware of what Grant said but he was the earliest person to call that. I'm not saying that he's a prophet or something but you gotta give him his flowers on that one

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

This is pure revisionist history. Nobody and ai mean nobody was saying back in 2023 springtime that the habs are not interest in michkov but prefer and are targeting demidov instead. I'm aware of what Grant said but he was the earliest person to call that. I'm not saying that he's a prophet or something but you gotta give him his flowers on that one

Grant has called a few things but I don't think he deserves credit for calling Demidov. He's nailed a few draft predictions for the Habs.

He's a good resource all in all, you just need to know what to use him for. He's a super homer who will never criticize management, so some of his takes come off as very cringe. He is very good at getting a pulse for what the Habs are thinking, and most of it comes from experience and speculation rather than a pure grift like other "insiders". He is also impressively good at calling late risers in the draft, and I think he's still in enough scouting circles where that helps him.

 

[Gael]

As the kids say, O'Brien has no rizz.

Negative aura

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I'm sure McCagg gets some easter eggs from certain contacts that allow him to paint a picture here and there. I'm a student with no connections to the NHL or anyone remotely close to it at this point (used to when a Bergevin signed player joined the Habs a decade-plus ago), and even I end up hearing things through the grapevine.

My second largest issue with McCagg is I have zero clue what he's looking for regarding inputs or outputs; his analysis is no deeper than an amateur scout just getting their feet into the water. The fact that he's so arrogant and closeminded for someone with so little actual cred is my primary problem, and why I hold him below pretty much every other pundit out there....well, most of them.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

at 14?!?!

Most likely at 20

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Negative aura

The HockeyProspect Guide had a quote from Mark Edwards that O'Brien seemed quite shy in his interview, which stood out when a lot of first round prospects had great interviews. He did well in his self-assessment at least.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

This is pure revisionist history. Nobody and ai mean nobody was saying back in 2023 springtime that the habs are not interest in michkov but prefer and are targeting demidov instead. I'm aware of what Grant said but he was the earliest person to call that. I'm not saying that he's a prophet or something but you gotta give him his flowers on that one

That is absolutely not true as many on here were all over the Demidov hype before Grant said anything. Grant has zero insight into the Montreal Canadiens, that is a fact that even he admits. I am not saying that posters didn't also want Michkov but to say that Grant was the first to recognize that Demidov might be as good or better than Michkov was not a revelation that took everyone by surprise. It was an obvious narrative that he was 100% going to jump on. If you were not aware of Demidov at the time that you heard Grant say this then that is a you thing. Many of us were aware of him and were watching him close the gap all season long. You make it seem as though Grant is out there hunting for prospects across arenas around the world. He is no different than most of our posters who don't go to games. The difference is that he is searching for hyperbolic narratives in order to induce traffic. If he was the first to bring it to your attention then that is why....not because he is some scouting savant. I would not claim to be special either if I was the first to identify a prospect through videos as it is not a valid way to scout and the amount of luck required to hit when you have never seen a player live nor have you met him or his coaches or his family is astronomical. So yes, he deserves some credit for identifying Demidov in such a public manner but it does not prove anything nor does it deserve accolades of any sort. Demidov has been a well known top prospect for years now.

You can't qualify Grant's typical hyperbolic nature for insider information when it turns out to be somewhat correct just like you shouldn't call him a buffoon for expecting the Habs to draft McLeod or for defending McLeod, Kotkianiemi and McCarron for as long as he did. He is just a guy saying stuff that might happen and he has no evidence that these things will happen. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't but do not conflate the positives with inside knowledge as that is intellectual dissonance on display for all to see.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I'm sure McCagg gets some easter eggs from certain contacts that allow him to paint a picture here and there. I'm a student with no connections to the NHL or anyone remotely close to it at this point (used to when a Bergevin signed player joined the Habs a decade-plus ago), and even I end up hearing things through the grapevine.

My second largest issue with McCagg is I have zero clue what he's looking for regarding inputs or outputs; his analysis is no deeper than an amateur scout just getting their feet into the water. The fact that he's so arrogant and closeminded for someone with so little actual cred is my primary problem, and why I hold him below pretty much every other pundit out there....well, most of them.

I have known many NHL players, scouts, agents etc and you just don't get real inside information from them other than personalities that they will give you insight to and different systems/tactics in a broader, general sense. The worst are the players who make it for a cup of coffee then act like they know all of the inner workings of the NHL lol. They typically know next to nothing and are over compensating for their lack of success and embellishing their experience.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

What about Cullen Potter? I like his skating, he's intense.

I'm starting to think he'd be a pretty good pick at 16/17.

Maybe with Pens pick

 

[montreal]

What about Cullen Potter? I like his skating, he's intense.

I'm starting to think he'd be a pretty good pick at 16/17.

no way imo, elite speed/skating and shot but nothing else imo from the little i've seen. His skating is so great but it's like he doesn't know what to do with the puck once he gets there other then shoot and that is a good option for him but I just would have major concerns about the IQ. I could be wrong since I didn't get to see much of him in the NCAA and if we do pick, i will of course see a ton of him.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

I made the mistake of going on another deep dive this morning ( I do that a lot) and now I REALLY want us to get Nesbitt I see a ton of upside in that kid and he's only starting to scratch the surface.

 

[le_sean]

I made the mistake of going on another deep dive this morning ( I do that a lot) and now I REALLY want us to get Nesbitt I see a ton of upside in that kid and he's only starting to scratch the surface.

If he slides to the 2nd round, okay. But no way at 16/17. The skating is bad and he benefitted a lot from his elite linemates. You’re essentially hoping he turns into an Adam Lowry type. I don’t think that’s good enough for mid-1st