HF Habs: 2025 NHL Draft: Part II

[WeThreeKings]

Not willing to go on too long on an old story or the "I told you so" stuff, but at the time I shared I was an ER physician with 15 years of experience and that in my opinion drafting in the top 10 a guy with recurring pain from a herniated disc was a bad idea.

See the convo : Silayev, Lindstrom, Catton, Iginla, Parekh, Eiserman

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You not only dismissed my concerns but went on about how I was a "so called medical expert" and that "no responsible medical professional would even give such an adamant statement" without having access to the medical file... Like I can't give my opinion (which was probably a bit educated on these matters) on a fricking prospect board about a player with a chronic injury without getting called out for being an "unresponsible" physician?

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I was pretty pissed at the time, because I felt it was an unwarranted personal attack... But I decided to let it go because I felt it was not worth it.

A year later, I think we can say the main problem in reality was is it didn't fit your pro-Lindstrom crusade and you just decided to call me out on my professionalism and integrity for no valid reason. The concerns were certainly very valid. Sucks for the kid, though. Still wish him the best.

Hopefully we all learn from that. Sometimes people give opinions that we don't want to hear, but even if they don't fit our narratives, attacking them personnally is not very productive.

/rant

I'm sorry that you felt that way; I still stick by not making adamant statements without actually seeing the medical imaging and data. Like we know that the Blue Jackets team looked at all his medicals and determined it was OK to invest a 4th overall pick in the player based on what they've seen? In the end you are looking more right on it than they are: but if you're really beating the point that you were right and never should have your expertise put in question, are you not implying gross incompetence on the part of the CBJ medical staff and whoever they sourced as a specialist to look at the data?

All the stuff above that ending paragraph was true though. Teams did feel better. He did go top 4 and Demidov was there at 5.

I will apologize for framing it in a way that called your integrity or expertise into question (though its the internet and people lie about a lot all the time here) and made you feel a way that had you taking a step back and upset.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

More back issues for Cayden Lindstrom, thank goodness he didn't fall to us. Makes me very cautious taking McQueen.

He should fall and there's a chance he's there after 10, getting him at say 12th and the Habs trade a 2nd to move up to get him js worth the risk. IMO. Especially if they keep the other pick for some reason.

The good news for McQueen is that he did come back from his injury and played while Lindstrom missed over a year, played a handful of games and had to miss the first game of the memorial cup because of supposed discomfort from traveling on the plane.

Will be interesting to see Bobby Mac's final list that's released the Monday before the draft. If there's any indication he might drop and the Habs will have that potential option.

So, we got like a month to go.

 

[Michoulicious]

I'm sorry that you felt that way; I still stick by not making adamant statements without actually seeing the medical imaging and data. Like we know that the Blue Jackets team looked at all his medicals and determined it was OK to invest a 4th overall pick in the player based on what they've seen? In the end you are looking more right on it than they are: but if you're really beating the point that you were right and never should have your expertise put in question, are you not implying gross incompetence on the part of the CBJ medical staff and whoever they sourced as a specialist to look at the data?

All the stuff above that ending paragraph was true though. Teams did feel better. He did go top 4 and Demidov was there at 5.

I will apologize for framing it in a way that called your integrity or expertise into question (though its the internet and people lie about a lot all the time here) and made you feel a way that had you taking a step back and upset.

Thanks for apologizing, I appreciate it.

I'd not call them incompetent since I don't know them and why they decided to pick a young player with recurrent pain from a herniated disc in the top 5 of a pretty strong draft... No matter the MRI or anything else, these kind of injuries have big odds of recurrence.

To me it felt like a very unnecessary risk given the quality of the other guys that were likely to be available in the top 5 (Demidov, Buium, Dickinson, Iginla, etc.)... Maybe around the mid first if you felt the gap in talent was getting big enough to justify the pick? Maybe they felt he was a franchise level player and they were willing to take that gamble? Who knows.

Anyways, I am quite happy with the Habs taking Demidov at #5, I had him at #2. Really liked Dickinson/Buium (at them at #3-4 OA) but the fit is clearly better with a star offensive player than with another LHD.

 

[Schooner Goon]

All this draft a goalie in first round talk I take it some of the shine must be coming off of Fowler. Just a weeks ago they were bowing down to him.

Not at all. It's an unpredictable position and very few are sure things when they're 20 years old. I like the idea of a toss at the goalie dart board every year if we have lots of picks and there's someone out there our scouts really like.

 

[Schooner Goon]

He’s not much better actually; he was .896 in the playoffs. These days, if you’re getting sub .900 goaltending, your team is going to lose ~95% of the time. Again, his regular season numbers weren’t terrible, but they weren’t good either, not by any stretch. A guy like Stuart Skinner, for example, put up significantly better numbers in the WHL at the same age.

You're way too fixated on the save percentages of 17 year old kids at a position where a lot of starting goalies in the NHL don't come into their own until they're 26+ years old. Tools, mental toughness and drive are often the keys to succeed at the next level.

 

[Schooner Goon]

That’s a strawman argument; I never said there were any “locks” at 16-17, and there doesn’t need to be for Ravensbergen to make no sense for us there.

Great. So you can't provide the name of one player who's a lock to be better than a middle of the lineup player at 16-17 but I'm out to lunch for suggesting that it might be a worthwhile to even consider (not draft) the consensus highest ranked goalie in the draft.

 

[Sorinth]

Great. So you can't provide the name of one player who's a lock to be better than a middle of the lineup player at 16-17 but I'm out to lunch for suggesting that it might be a worthwhile to even consider (not draft) the consensus highest ranked goalie in the draft.

I don't dislike Ravensbergen as a prospect but "consensus highest ranked" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting to make it seem like a better pick then it would be. He's usually ranked ~25th or so, so it's both a pretty big reach, a big risk (Pretty much all goalies are), and far from a need. So yeah a bit out to lunch on this one.

 

[Doublechin]

He should fall and there's a chance he's there after 10, getting him at say 12th and the Habs trade a 2nd to move up to get him js worth the risk. IMO. Especially if they keep the other pick for some reason.

The good news for McQueen is that he did come back from his injury and played while Lindstrom missed over a year, played a handful of games and had to miss the first game of the memorial cup because of supposed discomfort from traveling on the plane.

Will be interesting to see Bobby Mac's final list that's released the Monday before the draft. If there's any indication he might drop and the Habs will have that potential option.

So, we got like a month to go.

I'm not huge on risky picks but I'd move mountains to get McQueen if he's available post 9, if he misses he misses but if he hits you've got elite upside at center with size every team dreams of

If I had to place a bet, I'd still bet on him being drafted way before we expect unless his injury is way worse than expected

 

[Schooner Goon]

I don't dislike Ravensbergen as a prospect but "consensus highest ranked" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting to make it seem like a better pick then it would be. He's usually ranked ~25th or so, so it's both a pretty big reach, a big risk (Pretty much all goalies are), and far from a need. So yeah a bit out to lunch on this one.

He's the top goalie on almost every list which makes him consensus. If this draft is as thin as so many analysts are saying, there probably isn't much of a difference between players to be taken at 17 and 25. And for the record, I could care less about Ravensbergen and I'm not advocating for him in any way. I'm just saying all options should be considered if Habs scouts aren't high on skaters who will be available at 16 or 17 and if they happen to be high on Ravensbergen.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

Blake Fiddler.

A Braeden Schneider type

 

[Sorinth]

He's the top goalie on almost every list which makes him consensus. If this draft is as thin as so many analysts are saying, there probably isn't much of a difference between players to be taken at 17 and 25. And for the record, I could care less about Ravensbergen and I'm not advocating for him in any way. I'm just saying all options should be considered if Habs scouts aren't high on skaters who will be available at 16 or 17 and if they happen to be high on Ravensbergen.

Yes he's the consensus best goalie, but that doesn't mean anything. And sorry but yes there's a fairly big gap between 17 and 25. The chances of getting a player who plays 500 NHL games at 17th is 41.6%, at 25th they drop to 25.8%. That's significant value.

If the scouts aren't high on any skaters they would likely trade down. Only way we would draft Ravensbergen at 17 is if the Habs scout see something special that other scouts aren't seeing.

 

[themilosh]

He's the top goalie on almost every list which makes him consensus. If this draft is as thin as so many analysts are saying, there probably isn't much of a difference between players to be taken at 17 and 25. And for the record, I could care less about Ravensbergen and I'm not advocating for him in any way. I'm just saying all options should be considered if Habs scouts aren't high on skaters who will be available at 16 or 17 and if they happen to be high on Ravensbergen.

Ive always maintained, BPA doesnt nevessarily mean for your organization. It's more appropriate in context of trade value. For example, how much value might a team get from drafting a Ravensbergen vs a 'mešar'? While we may not need a G prospect, there is nothing wrong with drafting BPA to gain value.

So long as this management group admits small soft spritely type forwards are a complete dead end, then we will finally, finally, rid ourselves of the small, smurf moniker. Smurfs never win. They try, they have heart - but Science always wins out.

Ive been on these forums for 20 years.. Small forwards and small defencemen are NOT the way.

We have two: CC and LH.. done. No more.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You're way too fixated on the save percentages of 17 year old kids at a position where a lot of starting goalies in the NHL don't come into their own until they're 26+ years old. Tools, mental toughness and drive are often the keys to succeed at the next level.

I just showed you why numbers are an important part of the picture. You can disregard them all you want, but it doesn’t the reality that numbers in junior are strongly predictive of potential in the NHL, especially for goaltenders.

Ravensbergen’s are extremely underwhelming for a top rated draft eligible goaltender, which isn’t surprising because it’s a weak draft all around.

Like I said, he’s behind low end starters like Stuart Skinner at the same age. Find me a goalie drafted lately who had numbers like Ravensbergen’s in junior that went on to be a #1 goalie.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Great. So you can't provide the name of one player who's a lock to be better than a middle of the lineup player at 16-17 but I'm out to lunch for suggesting that it might be a worthwhile to even consider (not draft) the consensus highest ranked goalie in the draft.

Why tf do you think I need to name any “locks” when I never claimed there was such a thing. Doubling down on your strawman won’t make it a valid argument.

Again, there doesn’t need to be any locks for Ravensbergen to make zero sense for us at 16-17.

As I’ve said already, we have several goalie prospects in the system who were as good or better than Ravensbergen at the same age, and they are all further along in their development paths.

Ravensbergen is roughly the same calibre as guys like Dobes and Primeau at the same age. We don’t need any more of those types at this time, especially when all these young goalies are in the system and up and coming.

Wasting a mid first on a goalie prospect of this calibre would be about the dumbest thing they could do with those picks.

 

[WinterLion]

Boy are we gonna be pissed when kent says.... from the University of Wisconsin...

 

[MasterMatt25]

Boy are we gonna be pissed when kent says.... from the University of Wisconsin...

Why would we be pissed about Hensler

 

[BenchBrawl]

LHD slip... and small wingers

It will be proven silly.

Celebrini + Dickinson has the potential to be a Lafleur + Robinson-like draft for San Jose.

And to think they have Smith and might get Schaefer this year.

Holy shit.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Yes he's the consensus best goalie, but that doesn't mean anything. And sorry but yes there's a fairly big gap between 17 and 25. The chances of getting a player who plays 500 NHL games at 17th is 41.6%, at 25th they drop to 25.8%. That's significant value.

If the scouts aren't high on any skaters they would likely trade down. Only way we would draft Ravensbergen at 17 is if the Habs scout see something special that other scouts aren't seeing.

Drafting a goalie with one of our picks would be an epically stupid move that I can say with 100% certainty that HuGo will not even consider the idea of considering taking a goalie here.

It is a dumb move to draft any goalie this high when most top goalies are drafted in the mid and later rounds. Even the ones that do work out are usually close to UFA status by the time they establish themselves and have already been moved or have carried very little value through their ELC years when they are cheap.

Then throw in the fact that we are already stacked with good young goalies and the idea of the Habs drafting the least projectable position instead of a skater where we have many holes to fill and the proposition becomes ludicrous.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Boy are we gonna be pissed when kent says.... from the University of Wisconsin...

I won't love the pick since I've soured a lot on Hensler throughout the year.. but there's worse picks that we can make and there's pedigree in the past. He wouldn't be the first draft eligible NCAA prospect to look out of their depth a bit in their draft year and then rediscover their pre-NCAA skills in year 2.

 

[WinterLion]

Why would we be pissed about Hensler

I'm not sure? I like him well enough... but I have seen many around here knock him down. I guess he is a bit vanilla... but that might not be a bad thing at 16. He definitely won't be the most exciting pick.

 

[Riggins]

It hasn't happened to us yet, but I'd worry about picking a guy like Hensler in the mid first. Since he already has one NCAA year under his belt, he could play out two more then tell us he's not signing and force a trade.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It hasn't happened to us yet, but I'd worry about picking a guy like Hensler in the mid first. Since he already has one NCAA year under his belt, he could play out two more then tell us he's not signing and force a trade.

I think it has to be a certain set of conditions to do that. He'd have to play all 4 years in his case.

 

[rahad]

Finding somebody late is key to this draft. Can you imagine if we had took Matthew Knies? He went 57th overall, arguably the best player in draft.

Both Knies and Logan Cooley have been great in the NHL. Snuggerud also show lot of potential in the NHL. He could be a big candidate for the Calder next year.

What a great trio. ALL of them coming from University of Minnesota.

 

[le_sean]

While I'm not a big fan of this draft class, I am stoked for it to get here, with the cap going up so much and with having 7 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, plus this draft looks like it's going to be wide open as I have heard 20-30 names that people swear are going top 10-15 so this draft could be wild. Perhaps we see a lot of moves plus I wonder if several teams are going to try and tank for McKenna or try and improve their roster as there are so many shit teams in the NHL these days it's going to be interesting to see how they handle this.

Which makes it seem like the most likely scenario for the Habs to upgrade at 2C would be at the draft. Some team will bite because a player they like drops to the mid 1st

 

[Team_Spirit]

How Dickinson fell to the Sharks' second pick I will never understand.

Teams in front preferred Yakemchuk Parekh Silayev.

I see a lot of mocks with only 2 Ds picked before 16...there will be more

THN draft preview is out anyone got it?