HF Habs: 2025 NHL Draft: Part II

[TheBuriedHab]

I want to be clear that I was sensationalizing a take on Reschny as a means to the conversation. The poster i was quoting was making pretty exaggerated claims in the other direction.

The only claim I made was I have big doubts on Spence's upside, which is the main concern most already have about him. I don't understand how you think that's an outlandish comment.

The poster you're replying to has the exact same concerns.

I have watched him a lot. His game will translate well to the NHL in a sense that he do little things that can work with the pro but I would be the first surprised if he becomes a legit top 6 winger. Mike Grier type of upside.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The only claim I made was I have big doubts on Spence's upside, which is the main concern most already have about him. I don't understand how you think that's an outlandish comment.

The poster you're replying to has the exact same concerns.

I find that comparison completely lazy and somewhat offensive, but that's neither here nor there.

Guys like Reschny produce more in junior environments because they can use those skills in that setting to score. But they have to be top percenters to adapt those skills to be legitimate top 6 scorers in the NHL especially without the athletic or physical tools to impose their will on NHL defenses.

Guys like Spence and Cootes don't score as much at the junior level but the way they score is already how it happens at the pro level. Therefore the delta for them to produce similar levels of offense as they scale up isn't as high. It's really not that hard to see Spence putting up 20 to 25 goals and an equal amount of assists each year because he's got the athletic ability, the physical frame to play his style and his style doesn't need adaptation. He will also provide the other things that make offense happen for more skilled linemates

I get it though, I used to think that way. I'd undervalue Guys like Spence and Cootes and overvalue guys like Kindel and Reschny.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Guys like Reschny produce more in junior environments because they can use those skills in that setting to score. But they have to be top percenters to adapt those skills to be legitimate top 6 scorers in the NHL especially without the athletic or physical tools to impose their will on NHL defenses.

That's where I disagree, not every prospects are equal. I have seen many smaller, skilled, highly productive players fail in the pro and the NHL but most of the time it's because they are just too skilled for the junior and play a very junior game like Jordan Dumais or Andrew Cristall for instance (in a sense that their game will not translate well to the pro and they will have to significantly adapt to succeed) but their talent is way higher than all other junior aged players. So they dominate and their highlights are impressive.

I think Reschny for some unexplained reasons (at least to me) is labelled as such (a junior star producer that will struggle in the pro) but to me his game in the pro might be even better because of his smart; hockey IQ, understanding of time and space and very simple effective game. He has been the best player on his team by a landslide for two years now as an underrager leading his team in +/-, he does not try to deke every single player on the ice, he is able to slow down the game, he is always well positioned, he is not scared to go in fron of the net. He is very good at anticipating the play ahead. He is active and he can skate although I would not consider him fast. He has a very good shot, precise with a good release. He does have a significant weakness along the board and that is where he would need to get better and stronger to be effective in the pro so that's a risk. But to me in term of hockey IQ he is up there with the best of his class along with Desnoyers. Very reliable, doing all the little things well, do not put his team in trouble. He can create for other and/or score on his own. He works hard and compete.

That's my two cent regarding Reschny. I am very high about him and I think the team that draft him will be quite happy although he will require some years of development.

 

[montreal]

That's where I disagree, not every prospects are equal. I have seen many smaller, skilled, highly productive players fail in the pro and the NHL but most of the time it's because they are just too skilled for the junior and play a very junior game like Jordan Dumais or Andrew Cristall for instance (in a sense that their game will not translate well to the pro and they will have to significantly adapt to succeed) but their talent is way higher than all other junior aged players. So they dominate and their highlights are impressive.

I would say most of the time it's because they lack a physical trait, speed, size, skating, strength or more likely more then 1 of those traits. The difference between being a star in the AHL vs making it in the NHL (say at least 200 games played) often comes down to being a step or two behind. Hudon if he was quicker and a better skater would have been a regular in the NHL imo, Roy if he could improve on his speed, strength could be a good NHLer at least on a bad team.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I would say most of the time it's because they lack a physical trait, speed, size, skating, strength or more likely more then 1 of those traits. The difference between being a star in the AHL vs making it in the NHL (say at least 200 games played) often comes down to being a step or two behind. Hudon if he was quicker and a better skater would have been a regular in the NHL imo, Roy if he could improve on his speed, strength could be a good NHLer at least on a bad team.

Physical traits is one thing but what about lack of compete/consistency like Joshua Roy or lack of scoring ability for Hudon and Hudon was not as good of a skater as Reschny is.

As I have said, every prospect are different to evaluate but consistency, compete and hockey IQ are more important than physical traits at least for me.

People are willing to ignore that part (consistency, hockey IQ and compete) when a player has ideal physical traits and that is also wrong but people still believe you can fix this but IMO it's way harder to fix hockey IQ than having a 17 years grow into his body and put on mass and improve his skating.

In the case of Reschny (I do not know about him personally or have knowledge of any character issue), the skating is fundamentally good and he is willing to go the 'dirty area' so IMO getting stronger should help him fix what is lacking in his game. So as I have said, he still require development but the smart & compete are there. He is not your typical junior player all about offense, he does take care of his defensive duties. I see a legit NHL player in him. I do not think he will be a star producer but he could become a premier #2 center similar to Tomas Plekanec or Bo Horvat.

 

[bleuetbio]

Nothoin against energy players but I dont feel that our group is talented enough to start to target 3rd liners. Im still going for high skills and we can patch the bottom with players and prospects we already have

 

[Playmaker09]

I would say most of the time it's because they lack a physical trait, speed, size, skating, strength or more likely more then 1 of those traits. The difference between being a star in the AHL vs making it in the NHL (say at least 200 games played) often comes down to being a step or two behind. Hudon if he was quicker and a better skater would have been a regular in the NHL imo, Roy if he could improve on his speed, strength could be a good NHLer at least on a bad team.

I'd say it's more often than not a lack of IQ, motor or being a defensive liability that does them in.

Hudon wasn't a skilled enough enough playmaker and kind of reinvented his game the AHL level to more of a scorer to compensate. He also didn't have a single junior season remotely comparable to what Rescnhy has done this year, even in his D+2, and was a bit of a defensive liability.

Giroux, Granlund, Rossi, Benson, Brink, Gallagher, Tatar, Bourque are all average at best skaters (Brink is awful) and they all find a way to different degrees.

Rescnhy is as good a skater as anyone on that list, better than most, and competes really well. I'm not worried.

I don't think the clips at 3:41 or 4:05 display a particularly poor skater by any means.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Hensler is getting undervalued because he plays at Wisconson, a bad team coached to play a very defensive style. I think a lot of his struggles are because he's playing in the NCAA already and he's been getting adjusted to that level.

Last time I looked at Hensler’s career stat pack I didn’t see anything that suggested offensive capability. The stats said stay-at-home type.

 

[montreal]

Physical traits is one thing but what about lack of compete/consistency like Joshua Roy or lack of scoring ability for Hudon and Hudon was not as good of a skater as Reschny is.

As I have said, every prospect are different to evaluate but consistency, compete and hockey IQ are more important than physical traits at least for me.

People are willing to ignore that part (consistency, hockey IQ and compete) when a player has ideal physical traits and that is also wrong but people still believe you can fix this but IMO it's way harder to fix hockey IQ than having a 17 years grow into his body and put on mass and improve his skating.

In the case of Reschny (I do not know about him personally or have knowledge of any character issue), the skating is fundamentally good and he is willing to go the 'dirty area' so IMO getting stronger should help him fix what is lacking in his game. So as I have said, he still require development but the smart & compete are there. He is not your typical junior player all about offense, he does take care of his defensive duties. I see a legit NHL player in him. I do not think he will be a star producer but he could become a premier #2 center similar to Tomas Plekanec or Bo Horvat.

Hudon didn't have a lack of scoring and this isn't about Reschny, I'm talking in general, as that's why this thread gets annoying as posters become defenders of the faith and think they must prop up their guy and so you get people posting back and forth mostly on nonsense saying things they can't really know.

A lack of compete would fall into the lack of a physical trait as it's up to the player to improve their skating, speed (through strength), so how much time are they willing to spend in the gym or hire a personal skating coach, or personal trainer. There are of course lots of reasons, and this wasn't about trying to single out players but the examples I gave could be many many junior players that just couldn't cut it in the NHL but in the AHL they were All Stars.

At the end of the day I could care less about any prospect, I don't get paid to scout, I don't pay much attention to the draft until the following day. My only concern is to see the Habs win a cup again in my lifetime, so I want them to make the best possible picks but of course I don't know who those players are. I watch a lot of hockey so I give my opinion on what I see but I'm not too concerned if I get it wrong as I'm not spending much time watching these kids and usually only see them because they are playing with or against a Hab prospect.

 

[AHShadow]

Starting to ramp up my reading on 2025 prospects. Agreed that we need someone with bite, but ideally that someone also has skill as well.

I know achilles tear is scary, but I'd be very ok with us taking the risk on Carter Bear if he falls to 16/17. If not I really like Aitcheson as well (even though he's yet another LD).

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I find that comparison completely lazy and somewhat offensive, but that's neither here nor there.

Guys like Reschny produce more in junior environments because they can use those skills in that setting to score. But they have to be top percenters to adapt those skills to be legitimate top 6 scorers in the NHL especially without the athletic or physical tools to impose their will on NHL defenses.

Guys like Spence and Cootes don't score as much at the junior level but the way they score is already how it happens at the pro level. Therefore the delta for them to produce similar levels of offense as they scale up isn't as high. It's really not that hard to see Spence putting up 20 to 25 goals and an equal amount of assists each year because he's got the athletic ability, the physical frame to play his style and his style doesn't need adaptation. He will also provide the other things that make offense happen for more skilled linemates

I get it though, I used to think that way. I'd undervalue Guys like Spence and Cootes and overvalue guys like Kindel and Reschny.

Yeah I'm still waiting for you to point out my crazy comment that was out of line.

You want me to admit that Spence is some guaranteed 50 point player at the NHL level which is laughable. I don't think you understand how hard it is to find guys that can do that in the NHL.

I could really care less if you didn't value traits that were important in hockey before and now are over correcting.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yeah I'm still waiting for you to point out my crazy comment that was out of line.

You want me to admit that Spence is some guaranteed 50 point player at the NHL level which is laughable. I don't think you understand how hard it is to find guys that can do that in the NHL.

I could really care less if you didn't value traits that were important in hockey before and now are over correcting.

It's crazy to just discard guys like Cootes and Spence simply because they don't dipsy doodle people in the CHL and compromise pro habits to score at a higher clip.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

It's crazy to just discard guys like Cootes and Spence simply because they don't dipsy doodle people in the CHL and compromise pro habits to score at a higher clip.

Yeah I'm definitely discounting Spence because he doesn't have a sick mixtape. You got me.

In the past drafts I've advocated for taking players like Guhle, Slafkovsky, Stolberg, MBN and Iginla because of projectability and NHL traits. But in my opinion those players also had the skill and larger runway to develop into front line players.

I think labeling me as a guy that just wants junior scorers because I don't think Cootes or Spence have that same ceiling is very weird behavior.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yeah I'm definitely discounting Spence because he doesn't have a sick mixtape. You got me.

In the past drafts I've advocated for taking players like Guhle, Slafkovsky, Stolberg, MBN and Iginla because of projectability and NHL traits. But in my opinion those players also had the skill and larger runway to develop into front line players.

I think labeling me as a guy that just wants junior scorers because I don't think Cootes or Spence have that same ceiling is very weird behavior.

Yes because the ceiling is entirely predicated on his junior output. You also aren't accounting for the floor.

It's just weird to call anyone who can be a complementary top 6/9 player as low ceiling players as if those players aren't difficult to acquire on their own.

 

[Kennerback]

I see a definite NHL player in Spence. So he’s definitely worth a mid-first round pick in this draft. I just don’t see any offense.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Yes because the ceiling is entirely predicated on his junior output. You also aren't accounting for the floor.

Sorry, when did I say that?

 

[WeThreeKings]

I see a definite NHL player in Spence. So he’s definitely worth a mid-round pick. I just don’t see any offense.

He creates offense the same way the Dustin Browns. Ryan Hartmans and Sam Bennetts of the world do it.

Straight lines. Speed. Physicality. Turning pucks over, getting them to the skilled guys and taking soft ice.

 

[Kennerback]

He creates offense the same way the Dustin Browns. Ryan Hartmans and Sam Bennetts of the world do it.

Straight lines. Speed. Physicality. Turning pucks over, getting them to the skilled guys and taking soft ice.

The team that drafts him probably buys him growing into Ryan Hartman.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I'd be happy with Reschny if we got some size with the other pick (either via trade or draft)

He reminds me of zegras with less floating, maybe that's just his face though

Really I'd be happy with anyone with High IQ that can complete a pass, outside of Suzuki and Hutson there is just zero offensive creativity on the team, everyone else has a very simple game.

We have enough guys that can rip the puck I'm tired of seeing Newhook and Dach serve backhand granny passes to the other team

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I'd be happy with Reschny if we got some size with the other pick (either via trade or draft)

He reminds me of zegras with less floating, maybe that's just his face though

Really I'd be happy with anyone with High IQ that can complete a pass, outside of Suzuki and Hutson there is just zero offensive creativity on the team, everyone else has a very simple game.

We have enough guys that can rip the puck I'm tired of seeing Newhook and Dach serve backhand granny passes to the other team

Agreed. They need to continue to take swings at high upside Cs if they present themselves. Thinking C isn't a need because they drafted Hage at 21 last year is a mistake the previous regime would make.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Last time I looked at Hensler’s career stat pack I didn’t see anything that suggested offensive capability. The stats said stay-at-home type.

Statistically, Hensler is better this year as a draft eligible than a guy like McDonagh was in his D+1, and he’s a much better skater than McDonagh was/is. He’s also a RHD. Big upside and a high floor. His rush defense and gap control is likely the best in this draft class.

Fantastic prospect, but the Habs may need to trade up to get him because I doubt he’s there at 16. These big smooth skating RHDs have been going higher than their rankings in recent years (Levshunov, Yakemchuk, Reinbacher, D. Jiricek, etc).

 

[montreal]

I'd be surprised if Hensler goes top 20, I only saw him twice but wasn't impressed. You can watch him vs Hage as I know he's in both vids (#6)

 

[Team_Spirit]

5 motherf***ers and Lane Hutson
Repeat 9000 times

 

[Nevins]

Bill Zonnon (RW, L, 6’2″, 185, Rouyn-Noranda Huskies, 10/03/2006)

Bill Zonnon is a high-effort, two-way power forward with an imposing frame and a versatile skill set. Known for his ability to create offense and dominate puck battles, Zonnon combines a hard shot with excellent vision and playmaking ability. While his physical tools and hockey sense give him a high floor, there are questions about his ability to develop certain elements of his game to unlock his ceiling. He projects as a late first- or early second-round pick in the 2025 NHL Draft, with the potential to become a middle-six forward who can contribute on special teams at the NHL level.


QMJHL: Bill Zonnon - Neutral Zone - Men's

 

[Goldenhands]

Will Horcoff is a long term project and not typically my kind of player, but this is a big kid with decent skating and great hands, could be worth the gamble early 2nd.

Teammate of Machael Hage, son of former NHLer Shawn Horcoff.