2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[Skeksis25]

While we're discussing about next season, I want to poll what everyone is hoping for next season:

A) More wins, Celebrini & Smith more productive, still last place in the standing

B) Same number of wins, Celebrini & Smith same production as this year, 3rd-5th from last place in the standing

What scenario would make YOU happier?

A for me. I've always meant improvement = our improvement, regardless of what's going on with teams around us. I want to see 25+ wins, ideally 30. I still don't think that is that unrealistic. I would love to see Celebrini at least come close to being a point per game player. Would love to see Smith and Eklund become 65-70 point guys. I wanna see Mukh establish himself as a solid NHL Defenceman. Would like to see 1 or 2 more of the prospects show real promise with the big club. Want to see Grier add a couple of pieces that reflect him saying that its time to start turning this around and not be perpetual sellers.

Mainly, as fun as it is to brag about our prospect pool and beam with pride at being the #1 ranked organization, I wanna start cheering for wins again. Wanna get back to the playoffs in the next 3-4 years. Ideally win a Cup in the next 10-15 years. I wanna see signs of us headed that way and not signs that we might be the next Buffalo Sabres. Stagnating around 50ish points again and making endless excuses for why our prospects haven't progressed is a real worry. I don't want to see that.

 

[Star Platinum]

While we're discussing about next season, I want to poll what everyone is hoping for next season:

A) More wins, Celebrini & Smith more productive, still last place in the standing

B) Same number of wins, Celebrini & Smith same production as this year, 3rd-5th from last place in the standing

What scenario would make YOU happier?

I want them to finish as far from last place as possible, while accepting that we probably aren't going to get enough offseason help and growth from our Milk and Cookies duo to make a huge jump in the standings.

 

[Skeksis25]

Also, we hit on a 25% chance lottery ticket last season. We are hoping to hit on that this year too. Structuring next season for another 25% ticket to hit on is ridiculous, imo. While I don't believe in karma, it would be sweet justice if we ended 3rd after doing that.

Oh and the consensus top guy in 2027 is supposed to be a generational defenceman too. Should we plan for a 4th straight tank year?

 

[sampler]

Also, we hit on a 25% chance lottery ticket last season. We are hoping to hit on that this year too. Structuring next season for another 25% ticket to hit on is ridiculous, imo. While I don't believe in karma, it would be sweet justice if we ended 3rd after doing that.

Oh and the consensus top guy in 2027 is supposed to be a generational defenceman too. Should we plan for a 4th straight tank year?

Exactly. Planning to tank is just plain terrible for everyone. Think about it: Every player hates to lose. Winning is fun. Players will take big pay hits to play for a chance to win. Fans feel the same way. they come to the games to watch wins. They come to the games for the excitement and drama. They pay handsomely for PO games for that reason. They will not pay to watch losses and meaningless games year after year. We see this already in low attendance. There is a little patience among both players and fans as long as the trajectory is seen as upward and hopeful.

This year was upward from last year. They had far closer games. Far more excitement. The kids provided some fun. But, the team still lost a ton and the fans got bored of it having 2-3 months of meaningless games, even hoping for losses late in the year to complete the tank.

Next year, the fans and players need to see wins to stay believing in the trajectory and hopeful about the future. Another last place finish cannot be good for the belief that we are on our way. Fans would drop out even more. Players would start to request trades out of here. No UFA of note would consider signing here and RFA's may hold out for trades. To have the upward trajectory and positive culture continue, it has to mean a whole lot more wins, not just a few young players having good years. PO's is not the expectation but being alive in the hunt in january should be happening.

Gotta win more games, and not just a few more. A lot more. At least 30, if not 35+. And, personally, if Grier does well this summer adding multiple high quality NHL D, I think it's very possible.

 

[TheBeard]

Gotta win more games, and not just a few more. A lot more. At least 30, if not 35+. And, personally, if Grier does well this summer adding multiple high quality NHL D, I think it's very possible.

Even I think 35 is unrealistic. That's almost double our total. 30 wins should be considered a massive success.

 

[Yummyshark]

IMO GMMG directly told Plattner what the timeline was going to be like back when he was interviewing for the job. If he said something stupid like "oh yeah, we'll tank 2 years and be right back in contention" then he clearly failed.

But if he said something more honest like "Hrm the team has so many bad contracts, the prospect pool is absolute trash, there's literally only one guy who projects to be top 6 (Eklund) and literally zero defense and goalie prospects, and on top of that the 2022 draft is looking to be really weak and we only have the 11th pick too, which probably won't get us an elite player. This will likely require about 4 to 5 years of bottom basement draft picking before we start contending. But Mr. Plattner, look, there are some interesting future prospects, next years draft has some really interesting name including a generational one in Bedard, and I'm hearing this Celebrini kid might be really good. If we get 4 or 5 years of top 5 draft picks, then we'll have a core group of elite young talent that we can ride for many years of cup contention, and it will also coincide when I hope that our picks in the 2022 and 2023 drafts start playing impact minutes in the show."

The good news is, we will be able to tell if he has pressure to win this year or if this year is another small step towards improvement (with an eye on the Gavin sweepstakes) simply by his off season moves. Is he still only trading for cap dumps like Walman and Ceci? Is he still signing a bunch of cheap depth options, more bottom pair dmen, more bottom 6 forwards? Or is he going for broke and trying to sign the Marners and Ekblads of the world? And making trades for legit vets and shipping off our picks and prospects? Remember, none of Schaefer, Dickinson, Musty, or Cherny are likely to be full time NHL players, let alone positive players who can impact winning, so don't count on them to improve our team significantly.

We'll be able to tell real soon what GMMG is truly thinking and if Plattner is in lockstep with the plan. Either way he'll disappoint some fans (the win now f*** the draft fans or the McTank for McKenna fans), but as long as he and Plattner have a plan towards long term contention and are making progress on it then that's all that really matters.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Also, we hit on a 25% chance lottery ticket last season. We are hoping to hit on that this year too. Structuring next season for another 25% ticket to hit on is ridiculous, imo. While I don't believe in karma, it would be sweet justice if we ended 3rd after doing that.

Oh and the consensus top guy in 2027 is supposed to be a generational defenceman too. Should we plan for a 4th straight tank year?

They aren’t structuring this season around losing. It’s about developing young players. Losing tends to happen on those teams and selling rentals at the deadline is part of moving a rebuild forward.

The team needs at least two RHD’s, two middle six caliber forwards, and a legit goalie. It’s a doable offseason that can have the team take another step forward. But that many correct answers is unlikely while still having numerous inexperienced players at various positions. That kind of team can still lose a lot of games for many reasons.

I think Grier should fill those spots as best he can and see how it goes. If it doesn’t immediately pan out, they should sell their rentals at the deadline. This is likely to happen even if we improve by 10-15 wins.

 

[Barrie22]

To be honest, I don't know how the NHLe equivalency calculations work but my understanding is they take scoring trends based on league and era into account

Crosby played in the QMJHL in 2004 when he scored 135 points, it isn't graded as close to 184 point 1983 season as what McKenna just did in the current WHL

This isn't gospel, but these projections tend to track over the aggregate

Yeah no idea either, crosby lead the league by 18 points and was 1 of only 2 to get over 100+ points in the season.

Mckenna finished 2nd and was 1 of 6 players to reach 100+ points.

Just seems backwards, mckenna did less in a higher scoring league but rates higher.

 

[Skeksis25]

They aren’t structuring this season around losing. It’s about developing young players. Losing tends to happen on those teams and selling rentals at the deadline is part of moving a rebuild forward.

The team needs at least two RHD’s, two middle six caliber forwards, and a legit goalie. It’s a doable offseason that can have the team take another step forward. But that many correct answers is unlikely while still having numerous inexperienced players at various positions. That kind of team can still lose a lot of games for many reasons.

I think Grier should fill those spots as best he can and see how it goes. If it doesn’t immediately pan out, they should sell their rentals at the deadline. This is likely to happen even if we improve by 10-15 wins.

I would like to think we have a legit goalie. Would be worrisome if Askarov isn't noticeably better than at least Georgiev next season. As for the forwards and defencemen, that's on Grier. If he is serious about starting our ascent now, he is going to have to acquire at least one of each. If he doesn't do much in the offseason beyond just acquiring more spare parts, then its going to at least seem like he is trying to tank again.

30 wins, 65-70ish points should not be something we are afraid to aim for. It should not be something we are reluctant to target because McKenna would be cool. I realize people here are just talking and expressing their feelings and its not like our attitudes affect anything. But I feel if the organization has an attitude of "Things happen, if we again are a 20 win, 50 point team, its no big deal", that tells me that they are not confident in what's happening.

And of course, that goal for me is fluid depending on what's happening during the year. Injuries could derail things. Unforseen circumstances might arise. I'm not sitting here planting a flag on 30 wins, 70 points saying if we don't hit that, shut it all down. But I also am not trying to pre console myself if Celebrini and Smith stagnate next season and Askarov isn't that good and none of our prospects seem to show much promise. I feel that saying being just as bad as we have been is just fine is doing that.

 

[Bizz]

Even I think 35 is unrealistic. That's almost double our total. 30 wins should be considered a massive success.

2002-03 and 2003-04 showed me that instant success can be attained at the NHL level.

 

[TheBeard]

2002-03 and 2003-04 showed me that instant success can be attained at the NHL level.

Pretty sure that 02-03 season was just a blip.

 

[The McMafia]

But if he said something more honest like "Hrm the team has so many bad contracts, the prospect pool is absolute trash, there's literally only one guy who projects to be top 6 (Eklund) and literally zero defense and goalie prospects, and on top of that the 2022 draft is looking to be really weak and we only have the 11th pick too, which probably won't get us an elite player. This will likely require about 4 to 5 years of bottom basement draft picking before we start contending. But Mr. Plattner, look, there are some interesting future prospects, next years draft has some really interesting name including a generational one in Bedard, and I'm hearing this Celebrini kid might be really good. If we get 4 or 5 years of top 5 draft picks, then we'll have a core group of elite young talent that we can ride for many years of cup contention, and it will also coincide when I hope that our picks in the 2022 and 2023 drafts start playing impact minutes in the show."

In year one I think Grier was trying to work out a soft reset of the roster but then afterwards it became clear that the whole thing needed to be ripped up. I don't think he expected last year's roster to be as historically awful as it was. I certainly didn't.

Grier is trying to avoid the situation that the Rangers are in now. They were super awful, got some super high picks, then went and brought in someone like Panarin way too soon before they knew what those high pick players were going to become. I don't believe someone like Marner is in the cards this off season for that reason. We're going to see stabilizing vets like Toffoli and Wennberg come in short term instead.

GMMG has a unique opportunity right now that few teams ever have: he can try to get an almost whole roster of young elite talent to all hit the show within a 3-4 year span. I believe that's the goal.

 

[TheBeard]

Grier is trying to avoid the situation that the Rangers are in now. They were super awful, got some super high picks, then went and brought in someone like Panarin way too soon before they knew what those high pick players were going to become. I don't believe someone like Marner is in the cards this off season for that reason. We're going to see stabilizing vets like Toffoli and Wennberg come in short term instead.

Panarin was brought in before Laf or Kakko were even drafted. In fact Laf was a miracle draft lotto as they basically weren't even in the bottom 12 I believe.

Also, Panarin is considered the best free agent signing in NHL history and the team was literally a president cup winner last year after three straight 100+ point seasons with the best goaltender in the league and a Norris trophy winner. I'm not advocating for Marner in the least, but the rangers template was pretty damn effective.

 

[TheBeard]

GMMG has a unique opportunity right now that few teams ever have: he can try to get an almost whole roster of young elite talent to all hit the show within a 3-4 year span. I believe that's the goal.

This is an unsustainable model in terms of experience and cap. You simply can't just throw out a roster of 22 kids.

 

[ChompChomp]

GMMG has a unique opportunity right now that few teams ever have: he can try to get an almost whole roster of young elite talent to all hit the show within a 3-4 year span. I believe that's the goal.

I've said this before--I'll say it again--I'll die on the hill that Hasso has a directive to Grier to have the Sharks be competitive (by competitive, I mean competing for a playoff spot, not necessarily making he playoffs) in the 27-28, because that is the final season of the god awful 20 year, $7M per season TV contract. Whether it is a new TV deal with NBCSN (I hope not, for many reasons) or their own in-house streaming being set up, or Victory+ getting involved, or somehow, someway, a TV contract that once again includes OTA games (Which we haven't seen since the 90's with KICU 36), or a hybrid of any of the preceding, a lot of that may ride on how they do in 27-28. The 3-4 year span you refer to matches up nicely with this.

Note: it is possible that a new TV deal for 28-29 and onwards is already wrapped up prior to the 27-28 season, but if not, it is possible that how the 27-28 season goes has a major impact on the next TV deal.

I could easily see the Sharks having an exciting year in 27-28 that leads to playoffs or on the cusp, and then when the season ends, there is an announcement that every non-national Sharks game will be 100% free in market via the Sharks own app or Victory+. That would be very "Silicon Valley" of them, and would help gain new fans in market.

 

[sampler]

Hot take: Shoot for the Playoffs, without hurting the future.

Say we get Schaefer, and he looks NHL ready even at a young 18. Say Dick looks good too, and is ready to make the NHL leap. Neither will likely be a superstar, but it's possible that both can be a serviceable middle pair level, kinda like Mack and Will weren't ready for top line levels, but solid second line performance.

Say one of the rookies Cherny/Musty/Haltunnen/Bystedt steps into a top 9 role out of camp.

If they sign Ekblad and Provorov to big Term and $$$. 7x10M each.

Then trade Cagnoni+Ferraro+Dallas 1st for Byram and give him 7x7M (Buffalo might do this? they get a possible middle pair Dman back, a top flight D prospect, and a 1st... seems a reasonable deal for them)

then add Bennett 7x7m.

Top 9 forwards: Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Toffoli, Bennett, Wennberg, Graf, Kovalenko, and Rookie

top 7 D: Provorov, Ekblad, Byram, Mukhamadullin, Dickinson, Schaefer, Liljgren

Askarov-Jake Allen

(the long term added cap is 10+10+7+7 = 34M. very affordable)

That roster could be PO worthy if the kids surprise to the upsde. Even if not, that roster should not be anywhere near dead last.

 

[TheBeard]

Hot take: Shoot for the Playoffs, without hurting the future.

Say we get Schaefer, and he looks NHL ready even at a young 18. Say Dick looks good too, and is ready to make the NHL leap. Neither will likely be a superstar, but it's possible that both can be a serviceable middle pair level, kinda like Mack and Will weren't ready for top line levels, but solid second line performance.

Say one of the rookies Cherny/Musty/Haltunnen/Bystedt steps into a top 9 role out of camp.

If they sign Ekblad and Provorov to big Term and $$$. 7x10M each.

Then trade Cagnoni+Ferraro+Dallas 1st for Byram and give him 7x7M (Buffalo might do this? they get a possible middle pair Dman back, a top flight D prospect, and a 1st... seems a reasonable deal for them)

then add Bennett 7x7m.

Top 9 forwards: Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Toffoli, Bennett, Wennberg, Graf, Kovalenko, and Rookie

top 7 D: Provorov, Ekblad, Byram, Mukhamadullin, Dickinson, Schaefer, Liljgren

Askarov-Jake Allen

(the long term added cap is 10+10+7+7 = 34M. very affordable)

That roster could be PO worthy if the kids surprise to the upsde. Even if not, that roster should not be anywhere near dead last.

Jesus Christ. No.

 

[Bizz]

Hot take: Shoot for the Playoffs, without hurting the future.

Say we get Schaefer, and he looks NHL ready even at a young 18. Say Dick looks good too, and is ready to make the NHL leap. Neither will likely be a superstar, but it's possible that both can be a serviceable middle pair level, kinda like Mack and Will weren't ready for top line levels, but solid second line performance.

Say one of the rookies Cherny/Musty/Haltunnen/Bystedt steps into a top 9 role out of camp.

If they sign Ekblad and Provorov to big Term and $$$. 7x10M each.

Then trade Cagnoni+Ferraro+Dallas 1st for Byram and give him 7x7M (Buffalo might do this? they get a possible middle pair Dman back, a top flight D prospect, and a 1st... seems a reasonable deal for them)

then add Bennett 7x7m.

Top 9 forwards: Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Toffoli, Bennett, Wennberg, Graf, Kovalenko, and Rookie

top 7 D: Provorov, Ekblad, Byram, Mukhamadullin, Dickinson, Schaefer, Liljgren

Askarov-Jake Allen

(the long term added cap is 10+10+7+7 = 34M. very affordable)

That roster could be PO worthy if the kids surprise to the upsde. Even if not, that roster should not be anywhere near dead last.

And if Schaefer or Dickinson aren't NHL ready, trade a 3rd and a 4th to Pittsburgh and bring EK65 back on board.

 

[The McMafia]

This is an unsustainable model in terms of experience and cap. You simply can't just throw out a roster of 22 kids.

Not all at once. You have guys you got on the way down (Eklund), guys you get at the bottom (Celebrini, Smith, whoever this year), and guys you get on the way back up (the next couple seasons).

If you can get 3 new prospects cycling into the team every year across four years, as other players depart, you may be able to pull that off. The prospects have to develop and handle the NHL, sure, but I think that's the overall thought process.

This year Smith, Celebrini, Graf, and Mukh have shown they can perform at the NHL level. Next year, maybe we get Musty, Chernyshov, and Dickinson to do the same. With Eklund already on the roster and with at least one more big piece from the 2025 draft, you're kind of halfway there when 2026-2027 rolls around.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I would like to think we have a legit goalie. Would be worrisome if Askarov isn't noticeably better than at least Georgiev next season. As for the forwards and defencemen, that's on Grier. If he is serious about starting our ascent now, he is going to have to acquire at least one of each. If he doesn't do much in the offseason beyond just acquiring more spare parts, then its going to at least seem like he is trying to tank again.

30 wins, 65-70ish points should not be something we are afraid to aim for. It should not be something we are reluctant to target because McKenna would be cool. I realize people here are just talking and expressing their feelings and its not like our attitudes affect anything. But I feel if the organization has an attitude of "Things happen, if we again are a 20 win, 50 point team, its no big deal", that tells me that they are not confident in what's happening.

And of course, that goal for me is fluid depending on what's happening during the year. Injuries could derail things. Unforseen circumstances might arise. I'm not sitting here planting a flag on 30 wins, 70 points saying if we don't hit that, shut it all down. But I also am not trying to pre console myself if Celebrini and Smith stagnate next season and Askarov isn't that good and none of our prospects seem to show much promise. I feel that saying being just as bad as we have been is just fine is doing that.

Askarov could be legit but between injuries and scheduling, he hasn’t played more than 50 games in his pro career. We still need another reliable goalie for what is likely at least the other 30+ games we’ll need someone in net instead.

I don’t have a problem aiming for that sort of improvement or more but not meeting that expectation shouldn’t be looked at as some massive failure or an indicator of confidence in anything or anyone specifically. It’s a wait and see sort of outlook and work around what’s going right with the team.

 

[WSS11]

Hot take: Shoot for the Playoffs, without hurting the future.

Say we get Schaefer, and he looks NHL ready even at a young 18. Say Dick looks good too, and is ready to make the NHL leap. Neither will likely be a superstar, but it's possible that both can be a serviceable middle pair level, kinda like Mack and Will weren't ready for top line levels, but solid second line performance.

Say one of the rookies Cherny/Musty/Haltunnen/Bystedt steps into a top 9 role out of camp.

If they sign Ekblad and Provorov to big Term and $$$. 7x10M each.

Then trade Cagnoni+Ferraro+Dallas 1st for Byram and give him 7x7M (Buffalo might do this? they get a possible middle pair Dman back, a top flight D prospect, and a 1st... seems a reasonable deal for them)

then add Bennett 7x7m.

Top 9 forwards: Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Toffoli, Bennett, Wennberg, Graf, Kovalenko, and Rookie

top 7 D: Provorov, Ekblad, Byram, Mukhamadullin, Dickinson, Schaefer, Liljgren

Askarov-Jake Allen

(the long term added cap is 10+10+7+7 = 34M. very affordable)

That roster could be PO worthy if the kids surprise to the upsde. Even if not, that roster should not be anywhere near dead last.

If Grier gave those contracts to Provorov and Ekblad then he should be fired. Just no.

 

[Harbessix]

For those that follow the WHL closely, what’s the scouting report on Cole Reschny? His numbers in the regular season and playoffs this year are outstanding and he was just about a point per game last season in his D-1. Curious if he’s viewed more as a late 1st or 2nd round guy.

Also fun fact, his hometown is Macklin, SK.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

For those that follow the WHL closely, what’s the scouting report on Cole Reschny? His numbers in the regular season and playoffs this year are outstanding and he was just about a point per game last season in his D-1. Curious if he’s viewed more as a late 1st or 2nd round guy.

Also fun fact, his hometown is Macklin, SK.

Should be available around the DAL pick if we keep it. Only Button has him ranked high.

He's a short king though.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Friday]

If by some rotten luck SJ has to pick 3rd, Frondell over Hagens right?