2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[OversKy]

I do not buy into the McKenna is as good as McDavid hype.

Weren’t we told Bedard was the next generational player like Crosby and McDavid? How has he turned out?

Isn’t scoring way up across the CHL and especially in the WHL.

If he is so good why is he only playing wing in junior when C’s effects the game at such a high rate. Unless a Mark Stone level defensive player I just don’t see any wing who influences the game more than the top C’s. It’s why Kucherov should not win the hart trophy. How bad does his defensive game have to be to not be able to play C in juniors. Is he only relying on cheating for offense and flying the zone early.

McKenna is also (and many on this board will hate to hear it) an undersized wing playing in juniors. He is not a McDavid who dominates with his physical attributes (speed) that will translate to the NHL. These up and coming players that dominate lower levels with insane stick handling as their primary offensive weapon will struggle as they get to the NHL and time and space are taken away. That highlight that was posted earlier was a cool play but in the NHL he will just get trucked when he tries that.

Now I will say I have never seen McKenna play so there is a lot of generalization going on. But I also before the 2023 draft was saying Bedard was a scoring wing who will not win anything as the best player on his team and that Fantilli would help his team win more than Bedard at the NHL level.

Have you looked at the Blackhawks? They have a worse roster than the last place Sharks. I dont know if Bedard will have a career like McDavid or Crosby but they also had better supporting casts. Time will tell but his sophomore slump has him still being the leading scorer on his team. McKenna like has already been said, is not undersized and putting up video game numbers. Him and Dupont are two prospects to actually get hyped about.

 

[Hodge]

Yes scoring is up in Canadian major junior, McKenna still just put up the highest scoring draft -1 season since 1983, Bedard didn't perform like this before his draft year

In his D -1 in 2022 Bedard put up:

GP-62 G-51 A-49 P-100

This year McKenna put up:

GP-56 G-41 A-88 P-129

What they have accomplished at this point of their development is not the same, while playing in the same league only 3 years apart, McKenna is on a much higher trajectory than Bedard was

McKenna is 7 months older than Bedard was during his D-1 year. It's pretty much the same trajectory if you take that into consideration and McKenna isn't even playing center like Bedard.

 

[Cas]

Have you looked at the Blackhawks? They have a worse roster than the last place Sharks.

Do they? Because the fact that we're in last place (with a significantly worse goal differential) rather indicates otherwise.

 

[Jargon]

If Grier really believed we weren't going to be one of the 2-3 worst teams in the league with the roster he gave us, then that means he expected the ham and eggers he saddled us with to be better than they were and that indicates a lack of good judgment. My hope was that he was trying to put a smiley face on a team that never actually tried to compete this year.

To be fair, if we kept the guys we had, Blackwood included, I’m fairly certain we’d hit 30 wins.

 

[Hodge]

I'm never falling for CHL prospect hype again. They haven't produced a legit superstar since McDavid and Marner 10 years ago.

 

[coooldude]

I'm sure McKenna will be a great NHLer but I think the media has lost the plot on "generational" etc, and HFB follows. Very clear that Celebrini had a better rookie season than borderline generational Bedard, because his game translated to the NHL far better than a guy lighting up a kid's league. The past 5 years have been littered with debates about guys like Laf, Wright, Hughes, etc being generational or not and 99% of the time it's "not."

McKenna looks amazing in junior and he's putting up historic numbers. I still see him as "extremely good wing prospect that could be franchise or could be first line and still has a shot to land in the middle 6 as a disappointment," and I'm just as interested to see how the other top prospects develop in the next 12mo. Celebrini was seen as not a lock and not a strong 1OA at the end of 2023. It's not worth purposefully tanking again and setting back the rebuild. If we get lucky in the lottery, great.

Anaheim took a quiet step forward despite a terrible coach and will still pick up ANOTHER top prospect. We should aim to do the same.

 

[Cas]

I'm sure McKenna will be a great NHLer but I think the media has lost the plot on "generational" etc, and HFB follows.

"Generational" is a word used to sell subscriptions - it has no value otherwise.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Mckenna is 6' compared to bedard's 5' 10". That makes a very big difference down the line. We all know how much a few inches can matter!

I saw 5’11” but that was wiki so I do trust the 6’ measurement. Granted similar to what @Hodge said he needs to be Kucherov/Kaprisov level to be worth tanking for and even that is not enough to tank for and cement a losing culture for Celebrini and Smith.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Pretty sure none of those words came out. I simply answered your “what’s the point of more wins” question. But frankly, if we’re being honest, being told I’m “impatient” is the most arrogant response to me, you know, wanting to see a few extra wins. Sorry if my emotional investment doesn’t stop and start with their competitiveness.

I didn’t ask that question. You answered something different because you want to play the martyr for a few extra wins. Being told you’re impatient isn’t any more arrogant than questioning anyone here regarding being content with losing as if anyone here has any influence on what the team does. Some people just have a better handle on their emotional investment with the team and don’t lash out like you do because there’s still going to be a lot of losing.

 

[matt trick]

I think we've got two years of building. Happy to see Grier add four middle of the line-up guys and a backup goalie this summer. If it's three that's probably still pretty positive, and if it's five that's great.

Other than Schaefer my ideal offseason is probably Gavrikov/Provorov, Granny/Nelson, Ceci/Fabbro or Romanov (offer sheet), Allen, Marchment (trade), and maybe a Kovalenko upgrade who can pk and add a bit of size and toughness.

Eklund-Celebrini-Smith
Marchment-Granny-Tofolli
Kovalenko*-Wennberg-Graf
Goody-Delly-Grundstrom
Giles

Muk-Gavrikov
Ferraro-Fabbro
Dickinson-Liljigren
Desharnis

Askarov
Allen

4 top 30 UFAs and a trade for a top 6 wing with size is probably a bit too much to root for, but if there's also a Kovalenko upgrade, great. Even with those acquisitions, I think that team is fighting Chicago, Philly, Pitt, NSH and Seattle for bottom 6.

If we were to win McKenna that'd be great, but I'd be pretty thrilled with Roobroeck, Verhoeff, Belchetz, or Lin as well. Bjork, Stenberg, and Preston as also good, but all are small (as is Lin, but he's a RHD).

 

[dmcccdmn]

While we're discussing about next season, I want to poll what everyone is hoping for next season:

A) More wins, Celebrini & Smith more productive, still last place in the standing

B) Same number of wins, Celebrini & Smith same production as this year, 3rd-5th from last place in the standing

What scenario would make YOU happier?

 

[matt trick]

A. Most important thing is continued development of Celebrini and Smith in my opinion, marginally better performance, top 3 pick in a very good draft, but the stigma of organization not progressing.

B. Might feel better to 'no longer be worst team in the league', but I think you need to judge yourself by your self first, then look to comparable. If you end up with the same number of wins, hard to say you've improved, and you get a worse pick.

A, pretty easily for me. Honestly, given the option of Celebrini and Smith more productive, same number of wins, and 3-5th place or B, I think I'd be prioritizing Celebrini and Smith regardless of other moving pieces.

If Celebrini steps up to a 80-90 point center, and Smith steps up to a 60-70 point forward than I'm going to be happy that the two most important assets look to be on pace to exceed expectations.

 

[Patty Ice]

While we're discussing about next season, I want to poll what everyone is hoping for next season:

A) More wins, Celebrini & Smith more productive, still last place in the standing

B) Same number of wins, Celebrini & Smith same production as this year, 3rd-5th from last place in the standing

What scenario would make YOU happier?

I want to see the young guys grow.

 

[Herschel]

I'm never falling for CHL prospect hype again. They haven't produced a legit superstar since McDavid and Marner 10 years ago.

Not a lot of clear cut superstars have been drafted in past 10 years.

Matthews, J Hughes & M Tkachuk for forwards and Makar, Q Hughes for defence.

Interestingly, all five were drafted out of different leagues

 

[TheBeard]

I didn’t ask that question. You answered something different because you want to play the martyr for a few extra wins. Being told you’re impatient isn’t any more arrogant than questioning anyone here regarding being content with losing as if anyone here has any influence on what the team does. Some people just have a better handle on their emotional investment with the team and don’t lash out like you do because there’s still going to be a lot of losing.

Martyring. Give me a break. That’s hilarious that me wanting to see the team I root for not lose 70% of their games over nearly half a decade as lashing out. You asked what good does a few extra wins do, I responded, some fans might actually enjoy watching the team they root for not be on the losing end all the time and for whatever reason that’s me lashing out. Claiming you have a “better handle emotionally” basically tells me you don’t really care much for the team when they suck.

I’m done with this pointless back and forth. Maybe we’ll cross paths at a parade sometime down the road.

 

[sampler]

While we're discussing about next season, I want to poll what everyone is hoping for next season:

A) More wins, Celebrini & Smith more productive, still last place in the standing

B) Same number of wins, Celebrini & Smith same production as this year, 3rd-5th from last place in the standing

What scenario would make YOU happier?

The only way A can happen is if there are VERY few more wins and if we add no one over the summer. If Smith and Celly improve and we are still dead last, then it means that either every other team has incredible parity and we improve and remain last, or more likely, its Smith, celly, and everyone else stinks to high heaven. it also likely means that we did not improve the gaping hole on D.

option B only happens if some other team is hisotrically bad. How else can win number remain constant yet move up in standings?

The better question is:
A) more wins, 3-5th to last, but celebrini and Smith have same production.
B) Similar number of wins, still bottom 2, but celly and smith progress well

For me, I'll take A. In the long term, Celly and Smith will be fine. I now want to begin to focus on the rest of the roster. No matter how good two guys are, two players do not make a team. At this point, after the '25 draft, we will have the in house assets to build a winner for the long term. The question is whether we can get the external assets to complement in the house guys to build a real winner.

Do we have the Hossa, Sharp, Ladd, Campbell, or Versteeg to compliment the Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, and Brouwer?

Do we have the kadri, burakovsky, Toews, Johnson, or Nichushkin to complement the MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, makar, and Girard?

The great teams have loads of high end in house talent, but they also have a small army of imported talent too. The sharks will have the in-house talent by end of this draft to win. Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Schaefer/Misa/Martone, Askarov, Dickinson, Musty, Chernyshov, Lund, Graf, Mukhamadullin, Pohlkamp, Cagnoni, Bystedt, Thompson, LSW, ostapchuk, +dal 1st, our 2nd, and ottawa 2nd... The list of legit prospects is very very long, and it's long enough to have a future winner.

As such, I am looking to get more wins more from the addition of external parts more than the internal developments. Those internal developments will happen enough over time and grier has proven that he is adept as future asset acculumation. However, Grier has yet to show that he can add external talent (all adds aside from toffoli have been mediocre[wennberg] to god awful [goodrow and dyllandrea])., so that's what Im looking for this summer and that is what I would prefer to lead to more wins.

 

[weastern bias]

McKenna is 7 months older than Bedard was during his D-1 year. It's pretty much the same trajectory if you take that into consideration and McKenna isn't even playing center like Bedard.

A 7 month age difference doesn't account for being outscored by 29 points in 6 fewer games, they are not on the same trajectory

Again, no player has scored as much as McKenna has pre draft season since Mario Lemieux, his production is a complete outlier in the modern era

 

[TheBeard]

 

[Barrie22]

A 7 month age difference doesn't account for being outscored by 29 points in 6 fewer games, they are not on the same trajectory

Again, no player has scored as much as McKenna has pre draft season since Mario Lemieux, his production is a complete outlier in the modern era

Did someone forget crosby and his 135 points in his draft -1 season?

 

[weastern bias]

Did someone forget crosby and his 135 points in his draft -1 season?

To be honest, I don't know how the NHLe equivalency calculations work but my understanding is they take scoring trends based on league and era into account

Crosby played in the QMJHL in 2004 when he scored 135 points, it isn't graded as close to 184 point 1983 season as what McKenna just did in the current WHL

This isn't gospel, but these projections tend to track over the aggregate

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Martyring. Give me a break. That’s hilarious that me wanting to see the team I root for not lose 70% of their games over nearly half a decade as lashing out. You asked what good does a few extra wins do, I responded, some fans might actually enjoy watching the team they root for not be on the losing end all the time and for whatever reason that’s me lashing out. Claiming you have a “better handle emotionally” basically tells me you don’t really care much for the team when they suck.

I’m done with this pointless back and forth. Maybe we’ll cross paths at a parade sometime down the road.

And you couldn’t even respond to the question yet people who don’t respond as you do don’t care about the team. This isn’t my first rodeo with a bad Sharks team nor a rebuilding franchise. You’re letting your emotions get the best of you when people don’t agree with your hard lines on what is a success and what is a failure.

 

[Saskatoon]

Yea the odds of getting 1OVR as the worst team are so bad it's not worth doing anything that might move us from 30/31 to 32

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yea the odds of getting 1OVR as the worst team are so bad it's not worth doing anything that might move us from 30/31 to 32

I don’t know about all that. All I’m saying is that if things play out to where we’re still in this position after next season, it’s not necessarily a failure on anyone’s part. There’s no sense in placing any expectations on anything until we get to late July or August when we have a better idea of what we’re working with. I just want our young players to improve and take over the team’s identity more. They did a good amount of that this season.

 

[Bizz]

While we're discussing about next season, I want to poll what everyone is hoping for next season:

A) More wins, Celebrini & Smith more productive, still last place in the standing

B) Same number of wins, Celebrini & Smith same production as this year, 3rd-5th from last place in the standing

What scenario would make YOU happier?

None. GMs should be going all in every year. Their job is to win. Anything less than a Cup championship is a failure.

The last GM who finished last 3 years in a row got fired. And rightfully so.

 

[LadyStanley]