2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

If we pick at #2 and Schaefer is off the board, what do you do…

  • Misa

    Votes: 110 85.9%
  • Hagens

    Votes: 4 3.1%
  • Martone

    Votes: 5 3.9%
  • Frondell

    Votes: 3 2.3%
  • Desnoyer

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Try to trade down to select a D in the 7-10 range

    Votes: 3 2.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 1.6%

  • Total voters
    128
Yes because we're ultimately drafting the rights to the first 7 years of a player's career so It's relevant that Morrissey didn't start performing like a top pair defenseman until season 8 at the earliest. Even Schaefer reaching the current version of Morrissey on a shorter trajectory would be pretty disappointing IMO, he needs to be in the annual Norris conversation to feel confident our rebuild will work.
Guys who are drafted 1st overall tend to hit their primes a lot earlier than guys drafted 14th overall.

If Schaefer is a top-10 defenseman in the league at age 23, we'll be just fine.
 
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I’m not expecting miracles. That wasn’t my point. My point is congratulating ourselves for wasting another year sucking ass is tragic.
We didn't have much of a choice about whether we were going to suck ass or not though, so given that, might as well suck the required amount of ass to get the best possible player we can so that we will suck significantly less ass going forward.
 
Having only a slight increase next season despite having our goalie of the future, full seasons from Celebrini, smith and whomever we draft, additional prospects jumping to the show, Grier adding pieces in the offseason and then NOT trading them off for lotto picks and worse players throughout (not just at the deadline) would be an absolute failure for Grier unless that’s his intention.

Its as simple as that.

I swear I truly believe we’ve been beaten down so bad as a fanbase that for many it’s just easier to expect the worst than hope for the best. Expecting 30 wins isn’t wining the cup or even playing meaningful games in April. It’s doing something 30 of the 32 teams in the league will have done this season.
We don't always agree on the journey but I'm with you here. I think the goal should be 30 wins. There's a very good chance we don't hit it, but the goal this summer and in September and hopefully even in March should be 30 wins. That still puts us in the conversation for bottom 5 and a decent shot at some lottery luck, like this year's Ducks.
 
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We don't always agree on the journey but I'm with you here. I think the goal should be 30 wins. There's a very good chance we don't hit it, but the goal this summer and in September and hopefully even in March should be 30 wins. That still puts us in the conversation for bottom 5 and a decent shot at some lottery luck, like this year's Ducks.
30 wins or about 65 points even 70 would still put us in the bottom 3 by a healthy margin. Grier honestly has no more excuses to sell or at least be inactive.
 
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We don't always agree on the journey but I'm with you here. I think the goal should be 30 wins. There's a very good chance we don't hit it, but the goal this summer and in September and hopefully even in March should be 30 wins. That still puts us in the conversation for bottom 5 and a decent shot at some lottery luck, like this year's Ducks.
Scary to think 10 extra wins takes us from last to 3rd last lol.
 
We didn't have much of a choice about whether we were going to suck ass or not though, so given that, might as well suck the required amount of ass to get the best possible player we can so that we will suck significantly less ass going forward.
That’s fine, but if I’m drunk at a bar and the only chick left is the super fat one with a unibrow, I’d still do what has to be done, but I wouldn’t be walking around bragging about it either.
 
Having only a slight increase next season despite having our goalie of the future, full seasons from Celebrini, smith and whomever we draft, additional prospects jumping to the show, Grier adding pieces in the offseason and then NOT trading them off for lotto picks and worse players throughout (not just at the deadline) would be an absolute failure for Grier unless that’s his intention.

Its as simple as that.

I swear I truly believe we’ve been beaten down so bad as a fanbase that for many it’s just easier to expect the worst than hope for the best. Expecting 30 wins isn’t wining the cup or even playing meaningful games in April. It’s doing something 30 of the 32 teams in the league will have done this season.
Not necessarily but you’re entitled to your opinion. You’ve just become impatient.
 
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Not necessarily but you’re entitled to your opinion. You’ve just become impatient.
Me: “I’d like to see us show some improvement and not finish dead last for the third straight year.”

You: “you’re so impatient. “

You sound like you’d be perfectly content finishing last again for the next two to three years. As a GM you can’t put together a team as bad as they are without wanting to. All im asking is for Grier to, you know, not want to.
 
30 wins or about 65 points even 70 would still put us in the bottom 3 by a healthy margin. Grier honestly has no more excuses to sell or at least be inactive.
Grier should absolutely be selling on Ferraro, Liljegren, and any other returning defensemen (other than Mukmadullin) or bottom 6 plugs that are expiring next year for whatever another team will give them even if it's inconsequential, regardless of how they do next year. These are guys who shouldn't be in our long term plans. Probably Wennberg as well because I doubt he will want to return to be a third line center for us.

But no more unnecessary Zetterlund type deals.
 
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Grier should absolutely be selling on Ferraro, Liljegren, and any other returning defensemen (other than Mukmadullin) or bottom 6 plugs that are expiring next year for whatever another team will give them even if it's inconsequential, regardless of how they do next year. These are guys who shouldn't be in our long term plans. Probably Wennberg as well because I doubt he will want to return to be a third line center for us.

But no more unnecessary Zetterlund type deals.
Honestly see no reason to sell Ferraro if they can resign him to a reasonable number. What are we gonna get, another late first in 2027 that may or not even sniff the NHL until 2032 if at all? This team literally will have no nhl defensemen with any real nhl experience once Ruuta and Vlasic go and Liljigren moves on.
 
We don't always agree on the journey but I'm with you here. I think the goal should be 30 wins. There's a very good chance we don't hit it, but the goal this summer and in September and hopefully even in March should be 30 wins. That still puts us in the conversation for bottom 5 and a decent shot at some lottery luck, like this year's Ducks.
I think that's a realistic goal. That said, a lot can change in an active summer. Draft Schaefer. Add two top pairing NHL D. Sign a few quality middle six wingers, and you can strike gold, and improve a ton.

I mean, its reasonable to hope for point per game from Smith and Celebrini next year. They've been at that pace for two+months now. If they get two top 4 D this summer, one by trade, one by UFA, they should have an NHL quality D corps.

And they have ample cap space to add the key pieces on the wing too.
1. Trade Eklund+ for Byram, then extend 8 x 8m.
2. Sign Provorov 7x8m per.
3. Sign Bennett 7x7m per.
4. sign patrick Kane 1 x 5m.
5. Sign Jake Allen 2yrs, 6M, 3m AAV
5. Extend Mukh 2 yrs, 3M (1.5AAV)
6. Extend Kovalenko 1 yr, 1.5M

What do you think the following roster would end up with:

Celebrini-Toffoli-Kovalenko
Sam Bennett-P Kane- Will Smith
Wennberg-Graf- top rookie Wing (Best of Lund/Musty/Cherny/Haltunnen)
Ostapchuk-Grundstrom-Giles
note: Bennett can become 3rd line C after Wennberg leaves if Smith goes back to C in the future. Celly-Smith-Bennett is a great C lineup, or he can stay 2C if smith stays a wing or Osta[pchuk shows he ready for top 9 duty). Also rookie Wing not expected to fill a top 6 spot.

Byram-Ferraro/Liljgren
Provorov - Mukhamadullin
Ferraro/Liljgren-Dickinson
Desharnais (Thrun is also extra).
Note: Schaefer, given his youth and injury, likely needs one more year in OHL before joining the sharks. he replaces Ferraro or Liljgren in '26. And Dick starts with 10-12 3rd pair sheltered mins, but when ready, his ice can rise. Dick not expected to fill a top 4 role yet.

Askarov - Allen (2 x 3M)

Added cap (8 Byram+8 Provorov+7 bennett+5 kane+3 Allen+1.5 Mukh+1.5 Kovy) = Approx +34M on the cap, which leaves them with approx 19-10M under the cap.

I think that roster has massive improvement possible. Playoffs is a stretch, but that roster is not dead last. it also gives good flexibility going forward since kane, Wennberg, Dyll, Grund, Ferraro, Liljgren, Desharnais, Kovy, and Thrun would all be RFA/UFA's good for renting out at the deadline.

The only foundational forward piece added would be bennett, who I feel comfy committing good money too. Byram and Provorov would be the two long term D commitments and I feel comfy with that too. At some point, Grier has to commit some term. Even with those three added for 23M combined, they'd still have 50+M in cap space in '26-27 with Smith, Celly, Toffoli, Bennett, Graf, Provorov, Byram, Mukh, Dickinson, Askarov, and Allen signed along with any Rookie W who makes the team. Then, in '26, add in schaefer and you still have 50M to add another top 4D and a couple top 6 Wings, while still having space to resign Will and Mack in '27.
 
Honestly see no reason to sell Ferraro if they can resign him to a reasonable number. What are we gonna get, another late first in 2027 that may or not even sniff the NHL until 2032 if at all? This team literally will have no nhl defensemen with any real nhl experience once Ruuta and Vlasic go and Liljigren moves on.
Getting a late first for a UFA bad defenseman like Ferraro is a coup.
 
If we don't finish significantly higher next year, I'll blame it on the supporting players much more than I'll be blaming our foundation pieces

Which should shine the spotlight on GMMG. Easy to build a team designed to suck. Lets see him start the turnaround.

Hope is better than the black hole of depression we've had before this season. I feel people are trying to ensure that hope stays alive by expecting to be just as bad next season. If a 23 year old NHL ready best goalie prospect in the world cannot be a significant improvement over 4giev and his 4+ GAA, then is he really worthy of all his accolades? Not expecting him to turn into an All Star level goalie, but surely being noticeably better than Georgiev isn't some wild expectation? We were putting Goodrow and Kostin on the top line and top PP units multiple times this year. Surely its not unrealistic to expect better players there? We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory multiple times this season. A slightly more experienced group should surely convert a couple more of those?
 
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Me: “I’d like to see us show some improvement and not finish dead last for the third straight year.”

You: “you’re so impatient. “

You sound like you’d be perfectly content finishing last again for the next two to three years. As a GM you can’t put together a team as bad as they are without wanting to. All im asking is for Grier to, you know, not want to.
I’d like it too. I’m not going to consider it some massive failure if it happens like you will. I’m not worried at all about what the standings will look like. I’d be happy with a team that will put up a win in October as if selling wasn’t already the correct course of action for a bad team needing more talent.
 
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Getting a late first for a UFA bad defenseman like Ferraro is a coup.

And, not just a coup, but suprisingly realistic as well. The benefit of trading Ferraro is as much about not giving a regrettable long term contract to a solid, but unspectacular defenseman. Same goes for Wennberg and Lilly, though I can see arguments for keeping all three. However, I'd be prepared to walk from all three based on contract demands.

If you can get say a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Wennberg, Ferraro, and Lilly and package them up for a future member of the core that makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if both Ferraro and Wennberg could get 1sts as well. Schenn is a playoff type d-man, but I prefer him to Schenn who got a 2nd and a 4th. Radically different styles though.
 
Honestly see no reason to sell Ferraro if they can resign him to a reasonable number. What are we gonna get, another late first in 2027 that may or not even sniff the NHL until 2032 if at all? This team literally will have no nhl defensemen with any real nhl experience once Ruuta and Vlasic go and Liljigren moves on.
There's a coming numbers crunch of LHD that will be even more pronounced if the Sharks end up with Schaefer
 
There's a coming numbers crunch of LHD that will be even more pronounced if the Sharks end up with Schaefer
I mean Mukh and Ferraro were our top pairing when they were healthy and Mukh was playing on the other side. If you can have those two as your middle or top pairing for the time being and shift them down to an extremely solid third pairing then I really don’t see the downside.
 
Having only a slight increase next season despite having our goalie of the future, full seasons from Celebrini, smith and whomever we draft, additional prospects jumping to the show, Grier adding pieces in the offseason and then NOT trading them off for lotto picks and worse players throughout (not just at the deadline) would be an absolute failure for Grier unless that’s his intention.

Its as simple as that.

I swear I truly believe we’ve been beaten down so bad as a fanbase that for many it’s just easier to expect the worst than hope for the best. Expecting 30 wins isn’t wining the cup or even playing meaningful games in April. It’s doing something 30 of the 32 teams in the league will have done this season.
I just think this is so dramatically pessimistic. Maybe we win 30 games, or maybe we win 28. I would focus more on how we are playing and improving rather then some arbitrary number you came up with meaning our entire season/franchise is a failure for not reaching.

Yes it sucks that we are still dead last in the standings for the second straight year. But this team was mismanaged for so many years that it took a complete burn down rebuild. This isn't the Sabres with a core of 23-27 year old players that are failing. Core guys you can count on that have made the NHL so far are like 18, 20, and 22. I am hopefully you can count a 23 year old Mukhamadullin to be a top 4 Dman but IDK if you even qualify him as a foundation piece. We might be years away from our top Dmen making the NHL, let alone contributing like franchise altering players.

We took a smaller step forward this year then expected, but the team still improved while trading some of it's best short term pieces. I don't think MG has to go chase bad FA contracts just because we have to magically win 30 games next year. Look how much talent (mostly forwards) we finally have in the system that could be stepping up in a few years. If he's able to have another offseason like last year we will really be cooking, no need to get impatient now.
 
I just think this is so dramatically pessimistic. Maybe we win 30 games, or maybe we win 28. I would focus more on how we are playing and improving rather then some arbitrary number you came up with meaning our entire season/franchise is a failure for not reaching.

Yes it sucks that we are still dead last in the standings for the second straight year. But this team was mismanaged for so many years that it took a complete burn down rebuild. This isn't the Sabres with a core of 23-27 year old players that are failing. Core guys you can count on that have made the NHL so far are like 18, 20, and 22. I am hopefully you can count a 23 year old Mukhamadullin to be a top 4 Dman but IDK if you even qualify him as a foundation piece. We might be years away from our top Dmen making the NHL, let alone contributing like franchise altering players.

We took a smaller step forward this year then expected, but the team still improved while trading some of it's best short term pieces. I don't think MG has to go chase bad FA contracts just because we have to magically win 30 games next year. Look how much talent (mostly forwards) we finally have in the system that could be stepping up in a few years. If he's able to have another offseason like last year we will really be cooking, no need to get impatient now.
Pessimistic? I feel like I’m the only optimistic one here. Everyone else seems to be “I wouldn’t expect much by way of improvement because a million things could go wrong”.

As for finding the moral victories? We’ve been doing that for years now mostly as a coping mechanism and as a way to ease the pain of the reality of how bad the team was. This team doesn’t need any more moral victories

I also don’t think Grier needs to sacrifice the future in any way to make an effort to improve the team from 32nd to 30th in the league. Literally only two teams are going to fail to hit that mark - us and Chicago. You can easily go through the schedule and find ten games this team should have won but didn’t for any number of reasons that could easily be rectified, whether it’s goaltending or a complete lack of talent on the blue line.
 
Pessimistic? I feel like I’m the only optimistic one here. Everyone else seems to be “I wouldn’t expect much by way of improvement because a million things could go wrong”.

As for finding the moral victories? We’ve been doing that for years now mostly as a coping mechanism and as a way to ease the pain of the reality of how bad the team was. This team doesn’t need any more moral victories

I also don’t think Grier needs to sacrifice the future in any way to make an effort to improve the team from 32nd to 30th in the league. Literally only two teams are going to fail to hit that mark - us and Chicago. You can easily go through the schedule and find ten games this team should have won but didn’t for any number of reasons that could easily be rectified, whether it’s goaltending or a complete lack of talent on the blue line.
Sorry I just feel like I've read "would be an absolute failure" from you multiple times, always based on some baseline you are setting. After the hertl trade it was such a failure etc etc.

We might not have a defenseman on the big club that will be on the roster in 2-3 years. I hope MG is able to add one this off-season but it's pretty slim out there. It's not "just a morale victory" if Smith/Macklin/Eklund take another step but the worst defense in the league keeps us towards the bottom of the standings (likely)
 
I think if the Sharks can’t get 10 more wins next year than this year, something isn’t quite working. Particularly when Grier said he intends to have a busy summer and wants to start building up now. We cannot keep tanking for the next shiny kid, now it’s time to move forward.
 
I think if the Sharks can’t get 10 more wins next year than this year, something isn’t quite working. Particularly when Grier said he intends to have a busy summer and wants to start building up now. We cannot keep tanking for the next shiny kid, now it’s time to move forward.
I can't say that until I see how the offseason goes. I would certainly hope that the team that we ice for Opening Night is considerably stronger than the one we've iced for the last few months.
 

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