2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[sampler]

Kane and Towes didn't come in and save the Hawks at the time, but their GM did what was necessary to take the next steps towards contention right after they came on board. At some point the same is to be expected from Mike Grier.

Kane was drafted in 2007. The hawks won the cup in 2010 at the end of just his third season, after making the conference final in just his second season. (Also Toews' 2nd and 3rd season ends respectively as he spent D+1 still in college).

The hawks launched so fast because of brilliant FA adds and trades, as well as the brilliant keith and Seabrook picks and the amazing 8th round byfuglien pick. but they also added Havlat, Patrick Sharp, Marian Hossa, Versteeg, Soupy, ladd...

They drafted very well, for sure, but they added many solid vets to compliment and mentor the kids. Toffoli is a similar kind of add, but they need 4 more similar adds to create a real team. We are entering the phase when grier needs to start adding real players who can take some of the pressure off the kids.

You cannot win with practically all your top 6 forwards under 23. You need several 27-32 year old vets to allow the team to win when the kids are tired, overmatched, or just inexperienced. Toffoli's contributions this year cannot be overstated. We need 4 more toffolis (two on F, two on D), though preferably younger.

 

[Bizz]

The more relevant rebuild would be Colorado. Kane and Toews were near the finishing pieces on that team, having already drafted Keith (2002), Seabrook and Byfuglien (2003), Bolland and Brouwer (2004), Hjalmarsson (2005), and had already added Byfuglien and Sharp (2006), before they ever drafted Toews and Kane, then added Hossa in 2010.

We're starting much more like Colorado, with Eklund (Duchene), Smith (Landeskog), Celebrini (MacKinnon), but still have a long way to go before we are deep on D or F. Like COL, we may have a few more seasons of missing the PO's but looking more and more offensively dangerous, but struggling to fill out a deep team or a D corps. Sure, they had one fluke playoff appearance but then back into the dumps. They backed their way into Byram and Makar and that was the final pieces they needed.

We will have to get lucky for Schaefer AND have him hit, plus see all our other depth pieces develop, or Grier adds a ton in the offseason, in order to match a CHI-style timeline. I think it's unlikely.

Or, you could use the Lightning as a comp. We have our Stamkos (2008) but not our Hedman (2009) unless we get lucky this lottery. Then they added Gudas (2010), Namestnikov and Kucherov (2011) and Point (2014), and even still didn't touch the cup until 2020.

This is why I have continued to argue that our rebuild is more likely to look like these two -- AKA, we see a cup finals appearance about 9-10 years after drafting Celebrini. But I would love to be wrong.

oh so you can make a sensible post addressing my points while refraining from making personal attacks. Interesting.

 

[sampler]

The more relevant rebuild would be Colorado. Kane and Toews were near the finishing pieces on that team, having already drafted Keith (2002), Seabrook and Byfuglien (2003), Bolland and Brouwer (2004), Hjalmarsson (2005), and had already added Byfuglien and Sharp (2006), before they ever drafted Toews and Kane, then added Hossa in 2010.

We're starting much more like Colorado, with Eklund (Duchene), Smith (Landeskog), Celebrini (MacKinnon), but still have a long way to go before we are deep on D or F. Like COL, we may have a few more seasons of missing the PO's but looking more and more offensively dangerous, but struggling to fill out a deep team or a D corps. Sure, they had one fluke playoff appearance but then back into the dumps. They backed their way into Byram and Makar and that was the final pieces they needed.

We will have to get lucky for Schaefer AND have him hit, plus see all our other depth pieces develop, or Grier adds a ton in the offseason, in order to match a CHI-style timeline. I think it's unlikely.

Or, you could use the Lightning as a comp. We have our Stamkos (2008) but not our Hedman (2009) unless we get lucky this lottery. Then they added Gudas (2010), Namestnikov and Kucherov (2011) and Point (2014), and even still didn't touch the cup until 2020.

This is why I have continued to argue that our rebuild is more likely to look like these two -- AKA, we see a cup finals appearance about 9-10 years after drafting Celebrini. But I would love to be wrong.

I think it can be a whole lot sooner if Grier does well adding veteran talent.

After this '25 draft, Grier will have added an army of NHL futures at 23 years old or younger. Smith, Celebrini, Eklund, Mukh, Graf, Dickinson, Cagnoni, Thompson, Bystedt, Chernyshov, Musty, Lund, and possibly Haltunnen and Ostapchuk should all see NHL time going forward not to mention likely at least 3 more from the '25 draft as picks 1-3 are surefire NHLers, and 30 and 33 are likely to make it too, although possibly not as high impact. Pohlcamp has a pretty solid chance given how he has played so well in Denver, rivaling Buium (and much higher +/-), and LSW remains in the mix too as does cardwell. (assuming bordy and gush are done). Thrun also remains in the mix. And of course Askarov in net. Does not inlcude Landen, Wetsch, roberts, misskey, Svoboda, klee, or the other depth picks or the other later picks from the '25 draft.

That means that by the end of June, the sharks may well have 22 players in the system (NHL, AHL, Jr's, or NCAA), 23 years of age or younger, who could all end up NHL regulars. That's insane stocking of the cupboard.

However, you will not win hoping to create a whole team out of those 22 players, even if the talent is enough. they need mentors. they need veteran, established NHLers to ease those 22 guys into roles that give them a good chance to succeed.

 

[weastern bias]

However, the '26-'27 season should be go for it time.

With some clever acquisitions, they should very well be ready to compete for a PO's spot then.

I remember your bets before the year, lol

 

[Cas]

That means that by the end of June, the sharks may well have 22 players in the system (NHL, AHL, Jr's, or NCAA), 23 years of age or younger, who could all end up NHL regulars. That's insane stocking of the cupboard.

16 of those 22 will bust - just assume that right out of the gate.

 

[sampler]

The more relevant rebuild would be Colorado. Kane and Toews were near the finishing pieces on that team, having already drafted Keith (2002), Seabrook and Byfuglien (2003), Bolland and Brouwer (2004), Hjalmarsson (2005), and had already added Byfuglien and Sharp (2006), before they ever drafted Toews and Kane, then added Hossa in 2010.

We're starting much more like Colorado, with Eklund (Duchene), Smith (Landeskog), Celebrini (MacKinnon), but still have a long way to go before we are deep on D or F. Like COL, we may have a few more seasons of missing the PO's but looking more and more offensively dangerous, but struggling to fill out a deep team or a D corps. Sure, they had one fluke playoff appearance but then back into the dumps. They backed their way into Byram and Makar and that was the final pieces they needed.

We will have to get lucky for Schaefer AND have him hit, plus see all our other depth pieces develop, or Grier adds a ton in the offseason, in order to match a CHI-style timeline. I think it's unlikely.

Or, you could use the Lightning as a comp. We have our Stamkos (2008) but not our Hedman (2009) unless we get lucky this lottery. Then they added Gudas (2010), Namestnikov and Kucherov (2011) and Point (2014), and even still didn't touch the cup until 2020.

This is why I have continued to argue that our rebuild is more likely to look like these two -- AKA, we see a cup finals appearance about 9-10 years after drafting Celebrini. But I would love to be wrong.

BTW, 9-10 years from now, that army of prospects I listed will be 27-32 years old. yes, those are prime years, but they are also expensive years. To win a cup in a cap world, you have to have a mix of expensie players paid at market value and young guns paid well under market value (ELC's).

This is why I think the timeline should be much less than 9-10 years from now. I expect competiting for the cup 3-4 years from now when the army I listed is 22-26 years old. That's when you still have guys on 3rd year ELCs and well as early bridge/term deals. Those kind of contracts give the cap space to add high quality FA's or trade for big name guys and make a real run. Winning the cup is often attached to luck, but competing every year as a real contender should only be a few years away if Grier can add the quality UFA's and make sharp trades.

 

[sampler]

I remember your bets before the year, lol

haha. yep, lost all of 'em. what can I say, I'm an optimist . I thought Dyllandrea would be a quality add... shows what I know...

 

[Yummyshark]

I dont think tanking for a shot at McKenna is a good play. Yes, of course, he's be amazing to get. However, at some point, you need to start building a winning culture or you risk short circuiting your rebuild. I am hoping they do much better next year than this year, and I fully expect that given the graduation of the kids.

I suppose they could plop them all in the AHL and continue to dress dyllandrea, grundstrom, goodrow, and similar summer acquistions each night. Then the Cuda can dominate as the sharks stink.

Still, the kids need to win. They need help. They need more mentors and more talent around them. You can see how celebrini has hit a wall. He's tired. Hes frustrated, and given his size as well as Smith's, they need help in the form of large linemates that can do some heavy lifting. To my knowledge, the sharks currentyl do not have a single true top 9 forward that exceeds 203 lbs (toffoli) or a single D above 209 (ferraro... Ok Desharnais, but he barely counts).

I don't think its good for the kids to keep being physically overmatched night after night. They look exhausted, and they need some help with some skill. Not ostapchuk or goodrow types.

I am not holidng out any hope of getting mckenna or vorhoeff. It's like we'll be in the lottery for Mckenna but I don't wanna be dead last again.

Let's be realistic here, there isn't anything that GMMG can do to make this team not suck that also wouldn't be really stupid (like trading first rounders for rentals, or giving some 32 year old studs massive 6 to 8 year contracts). If ANY of the top prospects are ready for the show full time, then by all means bring them up, not saying stash them on the Cuda to help us lose more games. But if they aren't (and let's be honest, they almost certainly won't be), then they need to develop their game properly, not in some rush job cuz we need to get a few more wins.

Also I fully expect GMMG to sign random vets that will help (like a Tyfolli or maybe he can re-sign Granlund lol) but these guys aren't going to make the Sharks vaunt out of a bottom 5 position. Marner or whoever isn't going to sign with us, like why would Ekblad who is almost 30 want to waste the remaining years of his prime on this team?

When I say 'tank for a top 4 pick' I don't necessarily mean let's redo the fire sale that GMMG pulled off this season, I just mean 'just let the rebuild happen properly, don't rush it' and we will naturally sink to the bottom. Until our prospects come online, trying to gun for more wins won't really help anything - like getting a Vorhoeff would be way more important than winning an additional 4 games next year.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

I'll give you a name for pick 28 or 33, Alexander Zharovsky, who has the best hands in the draft. He's a 6'1 left handed RW. 50 pts in 45 games for Tolpar in the MHL.

 

[coooldude]

oh so you can make a sensible post addressing my points while refraining from making personal attacks. Interesting.

I usually operate like this:
Start sensible
If someone is a dick, call them out
If they're a dick again, don't back down (this is my flaw and I'm working on it)
Eventually back down and block the person if they never change

Unfortunately, you are often a dick, so I often call you out.

 

[Bizz]

I usually operate like this:
Start sensible
If someone is a dick, call them out
If they're a dick again, don't back down (this is my flaw and I'm working on it)
Eventually back down and block the person if they never change

Unfortunately, you are often a dick, so I often call you out.

there was no reason for it though. My post was more of a question than anything then you come out all butthurt and offended like I kicked your dog or something. Totally uncalled for.

 

[Jargon]

the sexual tension here is palpable

I think that the Sharks will finish like 7th next season and then squeak into the playoffs the next season.

 

[coooldude]

there was no reason for it though. My post was more of a question than anything then you come out all butthurt and offended like I kicked your dog or something. Totally uncalled for.

Hey man, I'm all for positive exchanges here. But are you talking about this post? This is basically ignoring my point and the broader convo about 18yo rookies in order to score some other point about Falloon, in your opinion, actually having a great rookie season and not sucking. So where's the constructive part of your post? What was called for about your post? You point one finger at me, four pointing back at you.

 

[Grinner]

I'll give you a name for pick 28 or 33, Alexander Zharovsky, who has the best hands in the draft. He's a 6'1 left handed RW. 50 pts in 45 games for Tolpar in the MHL.

Darren Boyce from puckbunker choose Zharovsky for us on a multi vlogger draft podcast. He used The Stars 1st rounder

 

[Patty Ice]

there was no reason for it though. My post was more of a question than anything then you come out all butthurt and offended like I kicked your dog or something. Totally uncalled for.

Hey man, I'm all for positive exchanges here. But are you talking about this post? This is basically ignoring my point and the broader convo about 18yo rookies in order to score some other point about Falloon, in your opinion, actually having a great rookie season and not sucking. So where's the constructive part of your post? What was called for about your post? You point one finger at me, four pointing back at you.

 

[Bizz]

Hey man, I'm all for positive exchanges here. But are you talking about this post? This is basically ignoring my point and the broader convo about 18yo rookies in order to score some other point about Falloon, in your opinion, actually having a great rookie season and not sucking. So where's the constructive part of your post? What was called for about your post? You point one finger at me, four pointing back at you.

just because someone didn't answer every single tidbit of your post doesn't mean they're ignoring it. And I can tell you that I wasn't. However saying Pat Falloon was, quote, "bad" his rookie year when his statistics objectively say otherwise was worthy of the response you were given, whether you like it or not is not my problem.

 

[weastern bias]

When the crux of your argument is "Pat Falloon was good, actually", a reevaluation may be in order

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Darren Boyce from puckbunker choose Zharovsky for us on a multi vlogger draft podcast. He used The Stars 1st rounder

We will certainly have options with that extra pick. They can pretty much have anybody outside the top ten with the draft capital they have. They can keep all four picks and get reasonably good prospects for their pool. If the draft happened as the standings are now, getting Schaefer, Gastrin, Amico, and Horcoff is a pretty strong draft imo.

 

[Star Platinum]

When the crux of your argument is "Pat Falloon was good, actually", a reevaluation may be in order

59 points in the rookie year was a good start - it just didn't go anywhere good after that.

 

[weastern bias]

59 points in the rookie year was a good start - it just didn't go anywhere good after that.

It was also 59 points in 1992, tied for 82nd in points and 68th in goals in the league

He DID lead his team in scoring, a 17 win last place team, but he really didn't do much of consequence

But that's greater the point, he scored at a decent clip as an 18 year old. . . and it led to NO winning on the ice, teenagers don't lead NHL teams to team success, it just doesn't happen

 

[Bizz]

59 points in the rookie year was a good start - it just didn't go anywhere good after that.

53 points in 93-94 while being bumped down to mostly third line duty wasn't bad either.

 

[weastern bias]

53 points in 93-94 while being bumped down to mostly third line duty wasn't bad either.

Tied for 111th in scoring and 96th in goals that year, also played 83 games

The team DID make the playoffs that year, so it's true that Pat Falloon is good, actually

He then proceed to score 50+ points one more time in his career and was out of the league 6 years later having played 9 total seasons

What a standard bearer

 

[TheBeard]

If this team is still fighting for last place next year I’m gonna be real disappointed

 

[Bizz]

If this team is still fighting for last place next year I’m gonna be real disappointed

So far Mike Grier has been our GM for two full seasons and the Sharks have now placed last in both of those. If there's gonna be a 3rd, then he won't make it to a 4th.

 

[StrawHatEklund]

If this team is still fighting for last place next year I’m gonna be real disappointed

Ideally, we are hitting 70+ points next season. That’s a huge jump but should be our goal. Likely bottom 5-6 but closer to a WC than to a low 50’s point tankathon with the Hawks. Roster is going to need some major improvement to hit that though.