2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[TheBeard]

I know, but I'm saying that's why he ended up getting traded. Why resign him when you're just gonna draft his replacement?

I'm guessing Misa ends up playing center so it would be him and Cherny at RW with an opening still on the left side.

Ironically i feel like a third line with Ostapchuck and Zetterlund would have been fun to watch.

 

[Jargon]

I'm not rooting for it, but finishing third in the draft lotto is sort of what Grier deserves after tanking to finish last last year and winning the lotto and then trying the same thing this year hoping he would get the same result.

I know you think that was his intention but I maintain that he was hoping for the team to be better (he said it himself) and finish around 7th. I doubt he would’ve had quite the fire sale otherwise. The only exception is Blackwood who wasn’t going to re-sign here and so he traded him for the return he thought was best.

I don’t believe he was ever purposefully tanking. Even now, when he sold half our team, I don’t think it’s in the service of tanking it’s in the service of — well, are these guys part of the future? If not, I’ll get what I can for them because why else keep them here?

 

[TheBeard]

I know you think that was his intention but I maintain that he was hoping for the team to be better (he said it himself) and finish around 7th. I doubt he would’ve had quite the fire sale otherwise. The only exception is Blackwood who wasn’t going to re-sign here and so he traded him for the return he thought was best.

I don’t believe he was ever purposefully tanking. Even now, when he sold half our team, I don’t think it’s in the service of tanking it’s in the service of — well, are these guys part of the future? If not, I’ll get what I can for them because why else keep them here?

I think all can be true and this is my reasoning.

I think he did expect the team to be better, but the early injury to Macklin made him realize there was no reason to push his prized rookie, and combining that with the major early struggles of Will sort of forced Grier into shifting gears and change his expectations for the season, and a number of things seemed to back this up.

One was the early trade of Blackwood, who was still doing more harm than good in terms of keeping us in the basement. I don't think he ever had intentions of promoting Askarov for long, however the freak injury to Vanacek gave him no choice. However, once Vitek was healthy, it should have been an easy call to buy out or send Georgiev home since he was simply awful, even by Sharks standards, however instead he chose to send Askarov away from the mess on the big club.

I also believe the slow start made it even easier for Grier to decide early to have a full on fire sale. I mean he traded what 9? 10 starters? The intention was never to keep any of them. Granlund, Ceci, Blackwood, Zetterlund... they weren't part of the future in his mind and he moved them as early as he could both for the return and also so they wouldn't be helping the team in a positive way. That's also why none of the pieces coming back were NHL pieces (including Kovalaneko).

Grier pushed his chips in early and every transaction he made during the season was purposely done to make the team worse.

 

[gaucholoco3]

We didn’t win the lottery last year.

Actually the Sharks won the lottery 4 straight times. Hopefully they didn’t waste all that luck to be dropped 2 spots this year.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I think all can be true and this is my reasoning.

I think he did expect the team to be better, but the early injury to Macklin made him realize there was no reason to push his prized rookie, and combining that with the major early struggles of Will sort of forced Grier into shifting gears and change his expectations for the season, and a number of things seemed to back this up.

One was the early trade of Blackwood, who was still doing more harm than good in terms of keeping us in the basement. I don't think he ever had intentions of promoting Askarov for long, however the freak injury to Vanacek gave him no choice. However, once Vitek was healthy, it should have been an easy call to buy out or send Georgiev home since he was simply awful, even by Sharks standards, however instead he chose to send Askarov away from the mess on the big club.

I also believe the slow start made it even easier for Grier to decide early to have a full on fire sale. I mean he traded what 9? 10 starters? The intention was never to keep any of them. Granlund, Ceci, Blackwood, Zetterlund... they weren't part of the future in his mind and he moved them as early as he could both for the return and also so they wouldn't be helping the team in a positive way. That's also why none of the pieces coming back were NHL pieces (including Kovalaneko).

Grier pushed his chips in early and every transaction he made during the season was purposely done to make the team worse.

I think you're really overthinking this. Yes he expected the team to be better, most people did. To be fair, that was true for quite a while.

There's a lot more reasons to trade expiring assets than simply becoming a worse team. We were essentially paid to take Ceci and Walman, and Granlund was traded for cap reasons in the Karlsson trade. Those 3 assets alone returned 2 1st round picks. Grier would have been stupid to decline those trades. That's simply a GM accepting some offers he couldn't refuse.

The Blackwood trade, again was acquired for nothing. Over his 1.5 seasons here he became a legit NHL starter. Blackwood, another expiring deal, was never seen as the starter of the future, and Grier again capitalized on a chance to turn him into more assets. Say what you want about not liking Kovalenko, but I bet our pro scouts believed he could become something just like Zetterlund did when he was traded here. Not every trade is a clear win, sometimes you're just trying to push an expiring asset into an asset you can improve/flip the next year. Maybe they thought Georgiev could be flipped too, idk but at the end of the day they needed a body to finish the year. I'd much rather Georgiev gets lit up every night as opposed to Askarov...who also would behind this defence.

Finally, the Zetterlund trade. I agree this one surprised me, and I thought Zetterlund could be a guy on our 2nd RW moving forward, or someone who just provides some secondary scoring where ever in the lineup. It sounds like management viewed Zetterlund as a 3rd line/middle six player, and with the cap going up, I bet Zetterlund's camp made an offer that caught Grier off guard. As mentioned in this thread or another I can't remember, Zetterlund isn't getting the opportunity he had here on most other teams. Ostapchuk might not be anything special, but he fits that nasty player Grier values. We'll have to wait and see what Zetterlund signs for and what Ostapchuk and the 2nd become.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think part of the reason why Cagnoni is getting the call up right now instead of helping the Cuda's playoff positioning is they want to see how well he can perform at the NHL level.

If he does, then I can see them picking Misa over Schaefer since they will have the left side locked up with Dickinson, Cagnoni, and Mukhmadullin.

Part of me also thinks that the reason Zetterlund ended up getting traded is that Grier is also thinking about picking Misa, and he would eventually become Zett's replacement on the 2nd line.

I agree that they want to see how well he can perform at the NHL level. I don't think it'll influence their draft choice. I don't think there's any real chance that Cagnoni can show in 14 games at most that the team should pick Misa over Schaefer. The team needs more blue line help even if Cagnoni impresses with this cup of coffee. And if they get four hits of young left handed blue liners, one will move to the right or one will get traded for the help they're looking for. Given how Muk has looked on Ferraro's right, one could argue that this is already sort of being played out.

As for Zetterlund, I don't see the connection there. Misa is a center and Zetterlund is a winger that was already getting relegated to a degree once Graf got recalled this season.

 

[gaucholoco3]

100% gotta go with Hagens there.

Absolutely not. It should be 100% Martone and if not then I would consider others before Hagens or trade down to a team that still thinks he is a 1C

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Actually the Sharks won the lottery 4 straight times. Hopefully they didn’t waste all that luck to be dropped 2 spots this year.

This is why I'm hoping for a last place finish anyway. Dropping to 3 isn't ideal but it's a pretty good worst-case scenario.

 

[Pavelski2112]

We won the lottery to keep our spot, so we didn't advance

God draft lotteries are so stupid

 

[gaucholoco3]

We won the lottery to keep our spot, so we didn't advance

God draft lotteries are so stupid

We won’t think they are stupid when we win the lottery in 2027 after finishing 11th worst to draft DuPont.

 

[TheBeard]

I think you're really overthinking this. Yes he expected the team to be better, most people did. To be fair, that was true for quite a while.

There's a lot more reasons to trade expiring assets than simply becoming a worse team. We were essentially paid to take Ceci and Walman, and Granlund was traded for cap reasons in the Karlsson trade. Those 3 assets alone returned 2 1st round picks. Grier would have been stupid to decline those trades. That's simply a GM accepting some offers he couldn't refuse.

The Blackwood trade, again was acquired for nothing. Over his 1.5 seasons here he became a legit NHL starter. Blackwood, another expiring deal, was never seen as the starter of the future, and Grier again capitalized on a chance to turn him into more assets. Say what you want about not liking Kovalenko, but I bet our pro scouts believed he could become something just like Zetterlund did when he was traded here. Not every trade is a clear win, sometimes you're just trying to push an expiring asset into an asset you can improve/flip the next year. Maybe they thought Georgiev could be flipped too, idk but at the end of the day they needed a body to finish the year. I'd much rather Georgiev gets lit up every night as opposed to Askarov...who also would behind this defence.

Finally, the Zetterlund trade. I agree this one surprised me, and I thought Zetterlund could be a guy on our 2nd RW moving forward, or someone who just provides some secondary scoring where ever in the lineup. It sounds like management viewed Zetterlund as a 3rd line/middle six player, and with the cap going up, I bet Zetterlund's camp made an offer that caught Grier off guard. As mentioned in this thread or another I can't remember, Zetterlund isn't getting the opportunity he had here on most other teams. Ostapchuk might not be anything special, but he fits that nasty player Grier values. We'll have to wait and see what Zetterlund signs for and what Ostapchuk and the 2nd become.

I believe 100% Grier was having a firesale no matter what, especially with all those FAs and the prices for them. I also believe Grier's intention to trade guys like Ceci,Granlund and. Blackwood as early as he could to anyone that would come close (or exceed his ask). I also believe Georgiev coming back was the deciding factor for Grier because either Georgie would find his game and Grier would have another piece, or he'd continue being who he's been and make the team worse. Win win.

With Zetterlund, I don't like beating this dead horse, but I don't really get a feel that there was ever a serious offer or attempt to keep him. That just seems to be the vibe I'm getting. If Grier saw him as a piece of the future they could have made something work. Grier didn't want to go through the process of negotiation not knowing where it would lead so he cut bait as soon as a viable offer was there. I still don't fully buy into his "Osta was my man all along" distraction because based on a second coming back, Grier could have undoubtedly gotten his man without having to trade Fabian. Hey, he wasn't his guy. That's life.

I don't think any of it is a bad thing per se, but it's still a risk to make as many moves as he did and not end up at least picking top two. Would have been the same last year, but thankfully it worked out. I am curious how many short term deals he gives out this offseason because right now I fully expect Wennberg and Ferraro to be gone by this time next year. Same with Dellandrea and Grundstrom, who obviously don't carry as much of the forwards, but still that would leave us with 5 or 6 signed forwards.

 

[sharski]

 

[PattyLafontaine]

More than the current poll, I'd like a poll to see who people want at 3rd overall with the assumption that Schaefer and Misa go top-2.

Options: Hagens, Martone, Frondell, Eklund, McQueen, Desnoyers, J. Smith

I really do not like those options. Not because these guys are bad, but to me thery're not #3 quality in an average draft.

Hagens is 70 two way center with size limitations.
Martone has size but he often doesn't use his size properly.
Eklund is good player but to go #3 yeesh. He's probably a 70 pt winger, but again size is an issue.
After Lindstrom's back probelsm I wouldn;t touch McQueen unless it was a second first round pick. Mcqueen at 28/29 sure but not a three.
Desnoyers I actually like but you risk taking Casey Middlestat at 3.
Jackson Smith is more of a posiitonal need pick.

 

[TheBeard]

I really do not like those options. Not because these guys are bad, but to me thery're not #3 quality in an average draft.

Hagens is 70 two way center with size limitations.
Martone has size but he often doesn't use his size properly.
Eklund is good player but to go #3 yeesh. He's probably a 70 pt winger, but again size is an issue.
After Lindstrom's back probelsm I wouldn;t touch McQueen unless it was a second first round pick. Mcqueen at 28/29 sure but not a three.
Desnoyers I actually like but you risk taking Casey Middlestat at 3.
Jackson Smith is more of a posiitonal need pick.

If there was a chance to trade down from 3 to like, say 7 or 8, get an Oliver Bonk or Byram+, I would love to explore that.

 

[Grinner]

I really do not like those options. Not because these guys are bad, but to me thery're not #3 quality in an average draft.

Hagens is 70 two way center with size limitations.
Martone has size but he often doesn't use his size properly.
Eklund is good player but to go #3 yeesh. He's probably a 70 pt winger, but again size is an issue.
After Lindstrom's back probelsm I wouldn;t touch McQueen unless it was a second first round pick. Mcqueen at 28/29 sure but not a three.
Desnoyers I actually like but you risk taking Casey Middlestat at 3.
Jackson Smith is more of a posiitonal need pick.

LD hardly seems like a positional need. Unless they're a slam dunk 1st liner. Someone good enough to push Dickinson down to 2nd line.
RD ( up & down the D lines)and top tier RW on the other hand are most certainly needs.

 

[timorous me]

I think all can be true and this is my reasoning.

I think he did expect the team to be better, but the early injury to Macklin made him realize there was no reason to push his prized rookie, and combining that with the major early struggles of Will sort of forced Grier into shifting gears and change his expectations for the season, and a number of things seemed to back this up.

One was the early trade of Blackwood, who was still doing more harm than good in terms of keeping us in the basement. I don't think he ever had intentions of promoting Askarov for long, however the freak injury to Vanacek gave him no choice. However, once Vitek was healthy, it should have been an easy call to buy out or send Georgiev home since he was simply awful, even by Sharks standards, however instead he chose to send Askarov away from the mess on the big club.

I also believe the slow start made it even easier for Grier to decide early to have a full on fire sale. I mean he traded what 9? 10 starters? The intention was never to keep any of them. Granlund, Ceci, Blackwood, Zetterlund... they weren't part of the future in his mind and he moved them as early as he could both for the return and also so they wouldn't be helping the team in a positive way. That's also why none of the pieces coming back were NHL pieces (including Kovalaneko).

Grier pushed his chips in early and every transaction he made during the season was purposely done to make the team worse.

I honestly don't understand how you can fault Grier for the approach last year or this year. The situation he inherited—and let's not forget, because of the stupidly delayed hiring process, his first draft was still run by DW Jr.—basically meant that he had no option, unless he was a damn fool, other than going nuclear. And I'd argue that the way he's played it these past two years has been sort of brilliant (combined with the good luck of getting the #1 pick last summer).

It's what DW did those last few years in the job that necessitated this. If it weren't for that, I think we could certainly have more complaints. But when you inherit a situation where the necessary rebuild was delayed by a few years and because of that you're digging out of a particularly big hole, it's the only logical approach to take.

 

[TheBeard]

I honestly don't understand how you can fault Grier for the approach last year or this year. The situation he inherited—and let's not forget, because of the stupidly delayed hiring process, his first draft was still run by DW Jr.—basically meant that he had no option, unless he was a damn fool, other than going nuclear. And I'd argue that the way he's played it these past two years has been sort of brilliant (combined with the good luck of getting the #1 pick last summer).

It's what DW did those last few years in the job that necessitated this. If it weren't for that, I think we could certainly have more complaints. But when you inherit a situation where the necessary rebuild was delayed by a few years and because of that you're digging out of a particularly big hole, it's the only logical approach to take.

I think you're confused. I don't fault him at all. I think he had a plan to rock bottom things again this season and wasn't going to let anyone or anything derail that.

 

[timorous me]

I think you're confused. I don't fault him at all. I think he had a plan to rock bottom things again this season and wasn't going to let anyone or anything derail that.

I guess your original comment—saying Grier "deserves" to finish third, which to me sounds like a pejorative way of putting it—is what I was going by. To me, it's somebody doing the hard thing, which really was rooted in convincing Plattner that this was the only way to move forward.

 

[TheBeard]

I guess your original comment—saying Grier "deserves" to finish third, which to me sounds like a pejorative way of putting it—is what I was going by. To me, it's somebody doing the hard thing, which really was rooted in convincing Plattner that this was the only way to move forward.

Well, he did what he had to do, but make no mistake, he also did everything he could to make the team as bad as he could. I don't mind the moves to dump free agents and maximize, but I do have an issue with purposely doing things like making Georgiev the starter and keeping the Goodrows in the line-up because it does, very clearly make the team worse. I don't support that "lose at any cost" mentality because the draft is too much of a crapshoot.

Play the kids and let them sink or swim regardless of placement. Let Askarov be the starter, bring Mukh or Cagnoni up earlier. Those little things.

TLDR I don't like the idea of wasting two seasons by pushing our luck at back to back first overalls, which Is essentially a 1/16 shot.

 

[weastern bias]

I can't believe Grier sold off all those pieces at the deadline

What a shameless tank, they were doing so well before they traded Walman, Sturm, Kunin, Vanecek and Zetterlund!

 

[one2gamble]

I don't want to pick 3 because you have a huge probability of being wrong. Nobody stands out.

That said, I don't see how he wouldn't pick martone

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't want to pick 3 because you have a huge probability of being wrong. Nobody stands out.

That said, I don't see how he wouldn't pick martone

I can see Grier still going Hagens at three over Martone but I wouldn’t consider it the odds on favorite there. I don’t think I’d trade out of it and I still think there’s a talent gap after four and would be happy with either in that spot. You’re either getting a top six center prospect that may be a big trade chip down the road or get another big winger that can also be a big trade chip down the road with Chernyshov and Musty in the system. We get flexibility either way that is valuable.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I really do not like those options. Not because these guys are bad, but to me thery're not #3 quality in an average draft.

Hagens is 70 two way center with size limitations.
Martone has size but he often doesn't use his size properly.
Eklund is good player but to go #3 yeesh. He's probably a 70 pt winger, but again size is an issue.
After Lindstrom's back probelsm I wouldn;t touch McQueen unless it was a second first round pick. Mcqueen at 28/29 sure but not a three.
Desnoyers I actually like but you risk taking Casey Middlestat at 3.
Jackson Smith is more of a posiitonal need pick.

Sorta my point. I'm interested what people choose from a field of fairly even candidates.

 

[Jargon]

Sorta my point. I'm interested what people choose from a field of fairly even candidates.

I think, probably, gun to my head, I go Martone (and I think Grier would too). Hagens feels like a better Will Smith and I’m not sure we need two Will Smiths necessarily (apparently you can’t win like that…). Martone bugs me because it sounds like he has the biggest chance of busting.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Sorta my point. I'm interested what people choose from a field of fairly even candidates.

Sure, the drop off after 2 is fairly significant.