2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

Because some of us actually watch him play hockey regularly?
Dickinson is putting up very impressive counting stats, but as someone who watches full games of him do you think he's improved his high-pressure decision making much this season?

That's what seems to be the biggest knock on him from my limited viewings, but I've barely watched him this year
 
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I guess I'll just take your word for it then.
You don't have to take my word for it, I just think making a claim that he's having the best season of any drafted defenseman without actually watching him or any other drafted defense prospect play is ridiculous.

Dickinson is putting up very impressive counting stats, but as someone who watches full games of him do you think he's improved his high-pressure decision making much this season?

That's what seems to be the biggest knock on him from my limited viewings, but I've barely watched him this year
It's gotten better, no doubt. But he gets exposed against the very best OHL teams and obviously at the WJC. Still an area for progress.
 
You don't have to take my word for it, I just think making a claim that he's having the best season of any drafted defenseman without actually watching him or any other drafted defense prospect play is ridiculous.
Who's having a better season? Don't say Buium whose production has literally regressed compared to last year.
 
Buium is significantly better defensively than Dickinson, so what do you call Dickinson?
Even if this is true right now, Dickinson has the reach and skating ability to defend NHLers in a way that Buium will never be able to.

How many defensemen of Buium's size who are not elite skaters actually play 20+ minutes a night with positive results? Adam Fox is the only one and his limitations as a #1D are a huge reason the Rangers can never get over the hump.
 
Even if this is true right now, Dickinson has the reach and skating ability to defend NHLers in a way that Buium will never be able to.

How many defensemen of Buium's size who are not elite skaters actually play 20+ minutes a night with positive results? Adam Fox is the only one and his limitations as a #1D are a huge reason the Rangers can never get over the hump.
You're projecting him to be bad defensively because of his size, I'm projecting he'll be at least average defensively because of his smarts.

Are you seriously asking me for a list of NHL defensemen who are 5'11"-6'1", play 20+ minutes a night, and are not elite skaters?

Mac Weeger is 6'0". Josh Morrissey is 6'0". Faber, Orlov, Toews, Evans, Montour, McAvoy, Provorov, Forsling, Letang, Andersson, etc. Plenty of guys Buium's height that are comfortably average defensively.
 
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You're projecting him to be bad defensively because of his size, I'm projecting he'll be at least average defensively because of his smarts.

Are you seriously asking me for a list of NHL defensemen who are 5'11"-6'1", play 20+ minutes a night, and are not elite skaters?

Mac Weeger is 6'0". Josh Morrissey is 6'0". Faber, Orlov, Toews, Evans, Montour, McAvoy, Provorov, Forsling, Letang, Andersson, etc. Plenty of guys Buium's height that are comfortably average defensively.
All of the players you listed except Weegar are amazing skaters (or at least were in their prime in the case of Letang).

This is going to be another Lane Hutson situation where the Buium defenders will claim he's a #1 defenseman while he's getting walked and outmuscled all over the ice.
 
All of the players you listed except Weegar are amazing skaters (or at least were in their prime in the case of Letang).

This is going to be another Lane Hutson situation where the Buium defenders will claim he's a #1 defenseman while he's getting walked and outmuscled all over the ice.
You said "elite" skater. None of those guys is an elite skater.

Buium is going to be listed at 6'1" in the NHL and that's a guarantee. But keep comparing him to 5'9" Lane Hutson to make a point.
 
More interesting was his comment that he expected to be around 8OA pick this year -- perhaps a bit more optimistic than the rest of us!

Given how the class is shaping up, I basically have been caring less and less about prospect evaluation this year... we'll take who comes to us. The chances we pick below 4th are getting tinier, and we still have a chance to guarantee 3OA, but at this point the biggest influence on who we pick/get will just be the lottery balls. If it's 1OA, then I think it's clear. If we're 2, we have some fun debates to have. but if we're 3/4, I think we'll just take who's left.
In some respects, the season has gone as well as could possibly be expected. Celebrini's been Calder good right out of the gate despite not a lot of support, the goaltending got good enough that we were able to make a good trade off of it, and Smith is starting to round into a better player after a rough start. But picking 8th requires a leap of faith that is outside the boundary of sense.

I haven't cared about the draft outside of the Top 4 and in fact had to go look up Jackson Smith and how he's doing because he hasn't been on my radar at all. We're almost assuredly picking one of those top 4 guys.

Dickinson is only a few months older than Martone and Hagens and is currently having the most impressive season of the three. He's also the only one guaranteed to play a premium position if he makes the NHL.

The only way we will regret taking Dickinson instead of getting Pittsburgh's unprotected 2025 1st (not that it was a choice to begin with) is if they win one of the lotteries and leapfrog us for Schaefer or Misa. Even Misa vs. Dickinson is debatable given our current needs, the chance Misa ends up on the wing in the NHL and the virtual certainty that our own 1st rounder in this scenario would be used on a forward.

I don't know why Dickinson is getting so underrated on our own board. He's clearly having the best season of any drafted defense prospect in addition to already having above average NHL size and skating ability.
My only worry about him is making solid defensive decisions. It's the one thing that was clearly lacking in preseason and since I don't watch London games, I have no sense if he's getting better in that regard. He needs to process situations faster and make smart decisions with the puck in his own end.
 
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You said "elite" skater. None of those guys is an elite skater.

Buium is going to be listed at 6'1" in the NHL and that's a guarantee. But keep comparing him to 5'9" Lane Hutson to make a point.
Most of them are elite skaters. Montour is one of the fastest players in the league. McAvoy was one of the best defensive defensemen in the league until recently primarily due to his skating and mobility. Some of these guys like Andersson and Orlov have fallen off a bit but were absolutely elite skaters in their best seasons. Morrissey at his best is a sublime skater and one of the fastest defensemen in the league with the puck on his stick.

The only reasonable comparison to Buium on your list is Mackenzie Weegar who's not the kind of defenseman you win with anyway, as the Florida Panthers just demonstrated. Buium's shot is also a muffin compared to Weegar's.
 
My only worry about him is making solid defensive decisions. It's the one thing that was clearly lacking in preseason and since I don't watch London games, I have no sense if he's getting better in that regard. He needs to process situations faster and make smart decisions with the puck in his own end.
I'm not worried about how he looked in NHL preseason games as a recently turned 18 year old. Does he occasionally make a bad read, take too long to make a decision with the puck or fail to properly leverage his size and skating defensively? For sure, but IMO those things are all easily coachable. You can't teach Dickinson's size, skating or shot. He has all the tools you would want in a #1 defenseman on a contending team and can still add tons of value to a NHL lineup even if he falls well short of that.
 
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I'm not worried about how he looked in NHL preseason games as a recently turned 18 year old. Does he occasionally make a bad read, take too long to make a decision with the puck or fail to properly leverage his size and skating defensively? For sure, but IMO those things are all easily coachable. You can't teach Dickinson's size, skating or shot. He has all the tools you would want in a #1 defenseman on a contending team and can still add tons of value to a NHL lineup even if he falls well short of that.
My only thing is I don't want to get my hopes up. Perhaps this is Sharks fan trauma, but we've seen so many D prospects flame out for the exact reason of all tools, no toolbox. The chance Dick hits his ceiling is low, just for defensemen in general, but he has enough tools that he should surely figure out how to contribute to a lineup. Even if he ends up Erik Johnson style, he could contribute to a contender, so long as he's not miscast.

I obviously hope he shatters my expectations but I'm really just hoping he turns into a solid 3/4. The decision making is concerning, but he has lots of time to grow and mature.
 
My only thing is I don't want to get my hopes up. Perhaps this is Sharks fan trauma, but we've seen so many D prospects flame out for the exact reason of all tools, no toolbox. The chance Dick hits his ceiling is low, just for defensemen in general, but he has enough tools that he should surely figure out how to contribute to a lineup. Even if he ends up Erik Johnson style, he could contribute to a contender, so long as he's not miscast.

I obviously hope he shatters my expectations but I'm really just hoping he turns into a solid 3/4. The decision making is concerning, but he has lots of time to grow and mature.
I think 2nd pair defenseman is pretty reasonable in terms of expectations. Hopefully Sam can get there.
 
My only thing is I don't want to get my hopes up. Perhaps this is Sharks fan trauma, but we've seen so many D prospects flame out for the exact reason of all tools, no toolbox. The chance Dick hits his ceiling is low, just for defensemen in general, but he has enough tools that he should surely figure out how to contribute to a lineup. Even if he ends up Erik Johnson style, he could contribute to a contender, so long as he's not miscast.

I obviously hope he shatters my expectations but I'm really just hoping he turns into a solid 3/4. The decision making is concerning, but he has lots of time to grow and mature.

It’s why Schaefer is obviously the crown jewel. Between him and Dickinson, you hope one takes the 1D mantle. And if both reach their potential… boy that’d be nice.
 
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More interesting was his comment that he expected to be around 8OA pick this year -- perhaps a bit more optimistic than the rest of us!

Given how the class is shaping up, I basically have been caring less and less about prospect evaluation this year... we'll take who comes to us. The chances we pick below 4th are getting tinier, and we still have a chance to guarantee 3OA, but at this point the biggest influence on who we pick/get will just be the lottery balls. If it's 1OA, then I think it's clear. If we're 2, we have some fun debates to have. but if we're 3/4, I think we'll just take who's left.
Why do you say this? We are last in pts and pts% with the most games played? Or are you saying "below 4th" is 5th onward?
 
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Not 2025 draft related but since I'm not making a 2026 thread. RD Chase Reid of the Soo Greyhounds of the OHL is someone to watch out for next year. Average size but he's putting up the same points in the same amount of games at Matt Schaefer. To be fair he's only 3 months younger than Schaefer so he is a little older for the next draft.

Assuming we have some sort of improvement next year and aren't right at the bottom of the Mckenna sweepstakes, he should be around our pick if we're in the 5ish range.
 
Most of them are elite skaters. Montour is one of the fastest players in the league. McAvoy was one of the best defensive defensemen in the league until recently primarily due to his skating and mobility. Some of these guys like Andersson and Orlov have fallen off a bit but were absolutely elite skaters in their best seasons. Morrissey at his best is a sublime skater and one of the fastest defensemen in the league with the puck on his stick.

The only reasonable comparison to Buium on your list is Mackenzie Weegar who's not the kind of defenseman you win with anyway, as the Florida Panthers just demonstrated. Buium's shot is also a muffin compared to Weegar's.
I'll give you Montour, but there is no world in which any of the rest qualify or ever qualified as "elite skaters", unless you consider a quarter of the league to be elite skaters. McAvoy has never been even a great skater, just good/above average.

My point is that Buium's physical tools are good enough to allow his smarts and brain to shine through. And my even larger point is that you have been strictly judging Dickinson off his point totals, which is an insane thing to do for a defenseman on the best team in the CHL.

I'm not saying I don't believe in Dickinson, nor that I think he's a bust. I just have a hard time seeing him as a future top pairing guy because of his short-comings, and there are several drafted defensemen who I do see as having that upside, even if their floor isn't as high as Dickinson's. Processing speed is one of the biggest things that stands in the way of a decent player becoming great, and that's his biggest weakness. His hands aren't great and his passes aren't exceptionally accurate sometimes. And he doesn't love his feet as much as I'd like him to on defense.

I'll admit to being probably more critical of Dickinson than I am of other prospects simply because I watch him more and care about him more. I watched Zayne Parekh's hat trick the other night and he was sublime, despite still getting pushed around on defense. Would I care more about the defense if he was a Sharks prospect? Probably. But he does things Sam can only dream of.

Not 2025 draft related but since I'm not making a 2026 thread. RD Chase Reid of the Soo Greyhounds of the OHL is someone to watch out for next year. Average size but he's putting up the same points in the same amount of games at Matt Schaefer. To be fair he's only 3 months younger than Schaefer so he is a little older for the next draft.

Assuming we have some sort of improvement next year and aren't right at the bottom of the Mckenna sweepstakes, he should be around our pick if we're in the 5ish range.
I saw Reid play for the first time recently, he was very solid. I like that he and Verheoff are two RHD with solid size for next year.
 
I'll give you Montour, but there is no world in which any of the rest qualify or ever qualified as "elite skaters", unless you consider a quarter of the league to be elite skaters. McAvoy has never been even a great skater, just good/above average.

My point is that Buium's physical tools are good enough to allow his smarts and brain to shine through. And my even larger point is that you have been strictly judging Dickinson off his point totals, which is an insane thing to do for a defenseman on the best team in the CHL.

I'm not saying I don't believe in Dickinson, nor that I think he's a bust. I just have a hard time seeing him as a future top pairing guy because of his short-comings, and there are several drafted defensemen who I do see as having that upside, even if their floor isn't as high as Dickinson's. Processing speed is one of the biggest things that stands in the way of a decent player becoming great, and that's his biggest weakness. His hands aren't great and his passes aren't exceptionally accurate sometimes. And he doesn't love his feet as much as I'd like him to on defense.

I'll admit to being probably more critical of Dickinson than I am of other prospects simply because I watch him more and care about him more. I watched Zayne Parekh's hat trick the other night and he was sublime, despite still getting pushed around on defense. Would I care more about the defense if he was a Sharks prospect? Probably. But he does things Sam can only dream of.


I saw Reid play for the first time recently, he was very solid. I like that he and Verheoff are two RHD with solid size for next year.
You're overrating the importance of processing speed and underrating the importance of Dickinson's tools. Yes, in order to be a Makar/Hughes/Heiskanen franchise level defender you need elite processing speed and elite tools. Dickinson is likely never going to reach that level and neither is Buium.

But there are plenty of big top pairing defensemen like Jones, Ekholm, Chychrun, Nurse, Sanheim, Parayko, Gavrikov, Ekblad, Harley, etc. who are not the quickest decision makers but still manage to play 22+ minutes a night with solid to great results. They know their limitations and play a simple defensive game of snuffing out rushes before they happen, winning board and net-front battles with their size and blocking shots while occasionally taking over shifts once the puck is in the offensive zone. I understand that some of those elements of the game are still a work in progress for Dickinson but I'm fairly confident he can develop into this type of top pairing dman which is why I wouldn't even consider trading him for a pick that would get us Hagens or Martone.
 

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