2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[coooldude]

But would you trade Dickinson for any of those forwards? I sure as hell wouldn't, especially considering where that would leave our defense prospect pool.

I think Dick would be in consideration for 5-10 this year and definitely for 2nd D off the board over Smith, Mrtka, or Aitcheson. Maybe you could make an argument for him as high as 5. For the Sharks, I agree it might be hard to swap e.g. Hagens or Martone or Misa for him, but I think objectively they are probably higher end prospects than him, so it would be close. For me, I'd still lean this year's top 4 and put him at like 5-7, but it's not a slam dunk that we'd rather this year's PIT pick. Great job by Grier navigating that trade up.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think Dick would be in consideration for 5-10 this year and definitely for 2nd D off the board over Smith, Mrtka, or Aitcheson. Maybe you could make an argument for him as high as 5. For the Sharks, I agree it might be hard to swap e.g. Hagens or Martone or Misa for him, but I think objectively they are probably higher end prospects than him, so it would be close. For me, I'd still lean this year's top 4 and put him at like 5-7, but it's not a slam dunk that we'd rather this year's PIT pick. Great job by Grier navigating that trade up.

I'd personally have him in my Tier 1.5 with Eklund and J. Smith. So if Pittsburgh's pick this year is top-4, I'd take that over Dickinson cleanly. If it's 5-6, it would be a tough call, and if it's 7 or lower, I take Sam.

 

[Star Platinum]

6 goals and 25 points in 23 games for Hagens...how can anyone justify taking this guy over Misa or Martone? Or maybe even Desnoyers for that matter.

I guess it depends on how one feels about the difference between the level of competition in college hockey vs. Canadian juniors.

I've read all the stuff about how this year's BC team is more of a close-checking team, but it does seem very odd that the same two wingers produced at a far higher level with Will Smith than Hagens, even if they did know each other's game very well.

 

[Hodge]

I think Dick would be in consideration for 5-10 this year and definitely for 2nd D off the board over Smith, Mrtka, or Aitcheson. Maybe you could make an argument for him as high as 5. For the Sharks, I agree it might be hard to swap e.g. Hagens or Martone or Misa for him, but I think objectively they are probably higher end prospects than him, so it would be close. For me, I'd still lean this year's top 4 and put him at like 5-7, but it's not a slam dunk that we'd rather this year's PIT pick. Great job by Grier navigating that trade up.

This is all I'm saying. Sure maybe it makes sense for some hypothetical team starting from scratch to prefer Hagens or Misa over Dickinson but not us.

I'd personally have him in my Tier 1.5 with Eklund and J. Smith. So if Pittsburgh's pick this year is top-4, I'd take that over Dickinson cleanly. If it's 5-6, it would be a tough call, and if it's 7 or lower, I take Sam.

Let's say Schaefer goes 1st overall to Chicago, our pick is #2 and the Pens pick is #3. You would seriously trade Dickinson so we end up with Hagens and Misa/Martone? That seems crazy to me from a team-building perspective. We would have absolutely nothing coming on defense just to add yet another forward who's not even the same level of prospect as Will Smith.

 

[Jargon]

I guess it depends on how one feels about the difference between the level of competition in college hockey vs. Canadian juniors.

I've read all the stuff about how this year's BC team is more of a close-checking team, but it does seem very odd that the same two wingers produced at a far higher level with Will Smith than Hagens, even if they did know each other's game very well.

Well, and now they’re the first line instead of the second. That said, Leonard and Perrault should also be one year better so… yeah hard to say.

 

[Shark Finn]

If luck’s on our side and the lottery’s bright,
We’ll dream of Martone lighting the night.
But fate has a twist, a shift in the air—
We land at the top and snag Schaefer with flair!

So dream all you want of Porter’s grand game,
But Mathew’s the prize—we’ll call out his name.
A future so bright, a defenseman so bold,
A Shark in the making, his story unfolds!

AI poems like this probably work against the odds, you know.

 

[coooldude]

Grier, on his impressions of Matthew Schaefer and Victor Eklund:

Schaefer is good, he’s a good player, but I would say there’s nobody in this draft that’s like Macklin or Bedard, right? Where you have this slam dunk pick. I think there’s lots of good players and Schaefer is one of them. He skates really well, competes hard, plays with energy and passion. He’s a good player, so we’ll see, but I don’t think there’s a slam dunk player out there. We’ll do our due diligence on all of these guys.

Eklund’s brother, I’ve seen him a bunch over the summer and last year in February in Plymouth and U-18’s last year, then at World Juniors. He’s like a right-handed Ekky. He plays hard. (more)

Grier didn't tip his hand, which is smart, but he also doesn't seem to be a liar and usually just says nothing if he doesn't want to reveal his thinking.

So, therefore, I found it interesting that he balked at Schaefer being head and shoulders above the rest.

 

[wickedwitch]

I've read all the stuff about how this year's BC team is more of a close-checking team, but it does seem very odd that the same two wingers produced at a far higher level with Will Smith than Hagens, even if they did know each other's game very well.

The Perreault/Hagens/Leonard line never gelled. They could make it work decently, because they're all smart, talented players, but the chemistry was never really there. (I think it pressured Hagens to play like Smith instead of playing like himself.) It has been broken up for a few weeks and I don't expect to ever see them together regularly again (unless there's an injury). Perreault/Hagens/Stiga look much more natural together.

 

[Star Platinum]

The Perreault/Hagens/Leonard line never gelled. They could make it work decently, because they're all smart, talented players, but the chemistry was never really there. (I think it pressured Hagens to play like Smith instead of playing like himself.) It has been broken up for a few weeks and I don't expect to ever see them together regularly again (unless there's an injury). Perreault/Hagens/Stiga look much more natural together.

What would you say is the big difference - what does Stiga do well that allows Hagens to play a different game?

 

[Zarzh]

I guess it depends on how one feels about the difference between the level of competition in college hockey vs. Canadian juniors.

I've read all the stuff about how this year's BC team is more of a close-checking team, but it does seem very odd that the same two wingers produced at a far higher level with Will Smith than Hagens, even if they did know each other's game very well.

In the NCAA a lot of playstyle seems to be dictated by the center of the line who will usually be the leading scorer. His scoring is mediocre and the context makes it worse, the only real saving grace might be that he isn't ready for this level.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

This is all I'm saying. Sure maybe it makes sense for some hypothetical team starting from scratch to prefer Hagens or Misa over Dickinson but not us.


Let's say Schaefer goes 1st overall to Chicago, our pick is #2 and the Pens pick is #3. You would seriously trade Dickinson so we end up with Hagens and Misa/Martone? That seems crazy to me from a team-building perspective. We would have absolutely nothing coming on defense just to add yet another forward who's not even the same level of prospect as Will Smith.

Beef with Hagens aside, what on earth makes Smith a whole level better prospect than Misa?

 

[Hodge]

Beef with Hagens aside, what on earth makes Smith a whole level better prospect than Misa?

Even Misa's biggest defenders don't seem to think he has legit first line potential.

Regardless I wouldn't trade Dickinson for another Will Smith either.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Even Misa's biggest defenders don't seem to think he has legit first line potential.

Regardless I wouldn't trade Dickinson for another Will Smith either.

Uhh…I haven’t seen that sentiment regarding Misa. And it would be pretty absurd to suggest a guy who is going goal and assist per game in the OHL in his draft year doesn’t even have first line potential.

 

[Hodge]

Uhh…I haven’t seen that sentiment regarding Misa. And it would be pretty absurd to suggest a guy who is going goal and assist per game in the OHL in his draft year doesn’t even have first line potential.

If Misa is a projected 1C why is a defenseman who has played 17 games this season the unanimous top ranked prospect?

I'm not even trying to shit on Misa. If Schaefer is off the board when we pick I'd love to see us draft him. But picking Misa 2OA then trading Dickinson for the 3rd or 4th overall pick so we can also draft Hagens or Martone makes no sense to me. That's how you become the Maple Leafs.

 

[Jargon]

This is all I'm saying. Sure maybe it makes sense for some hypothetical team starting from scratch to prefer Hagens or Misa over Dickinson but not us.


Let's say Schaefer goes 1st overall to Chicago, our pick is #2 and the Pens pick is #3. You would seriously trade Dickinson so we end up with Hagens and Misa/Martone? That seems crazy to me from a team-building perspective. We would have absolutely nothing coming on defense just to add yet another forward who's not even the same level of prospect as Will Smith.

I gotta agree with Hodge here, like it would be awesome to come away with Misa/Martone but our defense is so bad that Dickinson is a required asset.

 

[Hodge]

I gotta agree with Hodge here, like it would be awesome to come away with Misa/Martone but our defense is so bad that Dickinson is a required asset.

I think people are hung up on Dickinson being an 11th overall pick vs. getting a 3rd or 4th overall pick but if you did a 2024 redraft today Dickinson would probably go top 5 in a much stronger class.

 

[spintops]

Who knows how they turn out - but if Dickinson becomes a good second pairing D, while Misa becomes a low end 1C i would take Misa. I agree we need defense, but we are far enough away that I would take the more valuable asset. Still BPA for me right now, we aren't far enough along to draft for need. Trade down the road if necessary

 

[TheBeard]

I think people are hung up on Dickinson being an 11th overall pick vs. getting a 3rd or 4th overall pick but if you did a 2024 redraft today Dickinson would probably go top 5 in a much stronger class.

Dickinson probably goes higher simply because of the lack of other high end D-men in the draft. Last year 6 D went I believe in the first 12 picks. He very easily could have gone where Yak did.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Let's say Schaefer goes 1st overall to Chicago, our pick is #2 and the Pens pick is #3. You would seriously trade Dickinson so we end up with Hagens and Misa/Martone? That seems crazy to me from a team-building perspective. We would have absolutely nothing coming on defense just to add yet another forward who's not even the same level of prospect as Will Smith.

I'm not convinced Dickinson is a better prospect than Jackson Smith. I know that's not necessarily a popular opinion, but I really like Jackson Smith. So if we ended up with #2 and #3, there would be a few options:

1. Take Misa and Martone (or Hagens) and figure it out later (trade Eklund for Byram or something similar)
2. Finagle a trade with 1OA. Like 1OA + Dickinson-level prospect for 2OA+3OA
3. Take Misa and trade down 3OA to 5/6OA and pick up more assets in addition to a D prospect I think is about as good as Dickinson anyway.

It would take some real GM'ing, but I'm confident in Grier getting his guy(s).

Grier didn't tip his hand, which is smart, but he also doesn't seem to be a liar and usually just says nothing if he doesn't want to reveal his thinking.

So, therefore, I found it interesting that he balked at Schaefer being head and shoulders above the rest.

His comment doesn't make it seem like he's as high on Schaefer as I am personally. I didn't take it as "Grier doesn't think Schaefer is clear-cut 1OA", but rather "no one is a clear-cut franchise player like Bedard or Celebrini". An indication of how he feels about the draft overall more than anything else. And he's not wrong.

 

[coooldude]

I'm not convinced Dickinson is a better prospect than Jackson Smith. I know that's not necessarily a popular opinion, but I really like Jackson Smith. So if we ended up with #2 and #3, there would be a few options:

1. Take Misa and Martone (or Hagens) and figure it out later (trade Eklund for Byram or something similar)
2. Finagle a trade with 1OA. Like 1OA + Dickinson-level prospect for 2OA+3OA
3. Take Misa and trade down 3OA to 5/6OA and pick up more assets in addition to a D prospect I think is about as good as Dickinson anyway.

It would take some real GM'ing, but I'm confident in Grier getting his guy(s).


His comment doesn't make it seem like he's as high on Schaefer as I am personally. I didn't take it as "Grier doesn't think Schaefer is clear-cut 1OA", but rather "no one is a clear-cut franchise player like Bedard or Celebrini". An indication of how he feels about the draft overall more than anything else. And he's not wrong.

More interesting was his comment that he expected to be around 8OA pick this year -- perhaps a bit more optimistic than the rest of us!

Given how the class is shaping up, I basically have been caring less and less about prospect evaluation this year... we'll take who comes to us. The chances we pick below 4th are getting tinier, and we still have a chance to guarantee 3OA, but at this point the biggest influence on who we pick/get will just be the lottery balls. If it's 1OA, then I think it's clear. If we're 2, we have some fun debates to have. but if we're 3/4, I think we'll just take who's left.

 

[Juxtaposer]

More interesting was his comment that he expected to be around 8OA pick this year -- perhaps a bit more optimistic than the rest of us!

Given how the class is shaping up, I basically have been caring less and less about prospect evaluation this year... we'll take who comes to us. The chances we pick below 4th are getting tinier, and we still have a chance to guarantee 3OA, but at this point the biggest influence on who we pick/get will just be the lottery balls. If it's 1OA, then I think it's clear. If we're 2, we have some fun debates to have. but if we're 3/4, I think we'll just take who's left.

8OA is certainly an expectation!

I'm with you on losing interest in scouting right now. I watch London more than anything, and a little Sudbury, Saginaw, and Brampton. Play to ramp up Saginaw now that Chernyshov is healthy, though.

 

[Jargon]

More interesting was his comment that he expected to be around 8OA pick this year -- perhaps a bit more optimistic than the rest of us!

Given how the class is shaping up, I basically have been caring less and less about prospect evaluation this year... we'll take who comes to us. The chances we pick below 4th are getting tinier, and we still have a chance to guarantee 3OA, but at this point the biggest influence on who we pick/get will just be the lottery balls. If it's 1OA, then I think it's clear. If we're 2, we have some fun debates to have. but if we're 3/4, I think we'll just take who's left.

Boy, if we hadn't lost some of those 3rd period leads, maybe we'd be a touch closer to his projection...

I think, as much as Grier improved the D from last year's clusterf***, it's still not nearly good enough and we still lack 6 clear top 6 players. It's funny because watching this team play on some nights, it IS kinda hard to believe that they're in last place because on many nights they look really competent.

 

[Hodge]

Dickinson is only a few months older than Martone and Hagens and is currently having the most impressive season of the three. He's also the only one guaranteed to play a premium position if he makes the NHL.

The only way we will regret taking Dickinson instead of getting Pittsburgh's unprotected 2025 1st (not that it was a choice to begin with) is if they win one of the lotteries and leapfrog us for Schaefer or Misa. Even Misa vs. Dickinson is debatable given our current needs, the chance Misa ends up on the wing in the NHL and the virtual certainty that our own 1st rounder in this scenario would be used on a forward.

I don't know why Dickinson is getting so underrated on our own board. He's clearly having the best season of any drafted defense prospect in addition to already having above average NHL size and skating ability.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Dickinson is only a few months older than Martone and Hagens and is currently having the most impressive season of the three. He's also the only one guaranteed to play a premium position if he makes the NHL.

The only way we will regret taking Dickinson instead of getting Pittsburgh's unprotected 2025 1st (not that it was a choice to begin with) is if they win one of the lotteries and leapfrog us for Schaefer or Misa. Even Misa vs. Dickinson is debatable given our current needs, the chance Misa ends up on the wing in the NHL and the virtual certainty that our own 1st rounder in this scenario would be used on a forward.

I don't know why Dickinson is getting so underrated on our own board. He's clearly having the best season of any drafted defense prospect in addition to already having above average NHL size and skating ability.

Because some of us actually watch him play hockey regularly?

 

[Hodge]

Because some of us actually watch him play hockey regularly?

I guess I'll just take your word for it then.