2025 IIHF ICE HOCKEY U18 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP Division I, Group B

Historically, Lithuania was not a part of Western Europe. I know that most people just group these 3 countries together, but they are completely different in terms of their pre-20th century history.

In Livonia (Latvia and Estonia), German was the 2nd language, spoken by most educated people up until the 1940s. There was also a large Baltic German minority in the hundreds of thousands, which had a large influence on their sporting culture, among many other things.

Pre-WWII Riga was very much a wealthy cosmopolitan city, with the local Baltic Germans being an amalgamation of different nationalities, including British. This exchange of people and ideas at that period of time is the root cause of why hockey thrives in modern Latvia.

Some of the major ice hockey and football clubs were actually founded by Baltic Germans (i.e., Unions Riga). Kaiserwald/BFC was founded by a Briton.

Hockey was also popularized by a Swede Sven Jensen who played bandy for Riga Wanderers. The first hockey game was played in 1909 and we were a part of IIHF already by 1931, taking part in Olympics, World Championships, we had our own domestic hockey league, etc.

There are a bunch of interesting connections there. For instance, Jørgen Alfred Hviid, the father of ice hockey in Denmark, actually took up playing hockey in Unions Riga in early 30s.

To cut a long story short, Latvia was exposed to ice hockey much earlier and it caught traction already in the 1930s, becoming very popular. It is for this very reason why Latvians were the ones coaching many of the Soviet clubs in the 1940s, with multiple Latvians playing for the Soviet national team and the Soviets actually borrowing some hockey terms from Latvian.

In Estonia and Lithuania it never really became a thing before the Soviet military occupation of the Baltics, with bandy being more popular in Estonia at the time while in Lithuania ice sports were not particularly popular. Over there, ice hockey was viewed as a Russian sport with extremely negative connotations. If you'd look up the names on the Estonian national team, Russians are still an outsized minority there, but it used to be much worse.

In the Latvian case, it never was the case.

I think hockey does have potential for growth in both Lithuania and Estonia, though.
Really fascinating, thank you. I realize that it's a bit off topic here, but why were the two countries created after the fall of the USSR, as opposed to a Livonian state? If I remember correctly, the Estonians aren't necessarily considered Slavic - sharing closer language and cultural ties to Finlands. Is this the reason for the lack of cohesion between them and the Latvians?

As far as the bolded, did Leo Komorov grow up in Estonia and move to Finland when his talents were apparent?

Sorry for the hijack, both the Baltics and the Balkans have always intrigued me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Summer Rose
I'd also like to add that I'd love to see programs like Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Belarus, Denmark and Latvia make that next step to compete with the elite 7. More importantly, I'd love to see Lithuania, Estonia, Poland and Ukraine become fixtures in the top group. Having a proper best on best with more than a half dozen countries involved would be infinitely more interesting than ensuring revenue from the southern US markets.
 
Really fascinating, thank you. I realize that it's a bit off topic here, but why were the two countries created after the fall of the USSR, as opposed to a Livonian state? If I remember correctly, the Estonians aren't necessarily considered Slavic - sharing closer language and cultural ties to Finlands. Is this the reason for the lack of cohesion between them and the Latvians?

As far as the bolded, did Leo Komorov grow up in Estonia and move to Finland when his talents were apparent?
Europe is, mostly, made of nation-states. There is nothing that would suggest Estonians and Latvians are the same nation - completely separate language and culture. The only "cultural cohesion", as you aptly put it, between those is in broad terms common regional history. Livonia was just a geographical reference that later turned into an administrative unit out of convenience to the overlord of those lands.

"Aren't necessarily considered Slavic" is also quite an understatement since none of the Baltic nations have anything to do with Slavs other than, again, partially common history with some of the Slavic nations/states.

Komarov's parents moved out of Estonia very early in his life so hockey was inconsequential. He grew up in the Swedish-speaking part of Finland. MuIK in Nykarleby is listed as his youth team.
 
Really fascinating, thank you. I realize that it's a bit off topic here, but why were the two countries created after the fall of the USSR, as opposed to a Livonian state? If I remember correctly, the Estonians aren't necessarily considered Slavic - sharing closer language and cultural ties to Finlands. Is this the reason for the lack of cohesion between them and the Latvians?

As far as the bolded, did Leo Komorov grow up in Estonia and move to Finland when his talents were apparent?

Sorry for the hijack, both the Baltics and the Balkans have always intrigued me.
You just stated a couple of things that could be bad for your health if said to a local.

First of all, Latvia is not Slavic in any respect. Why on Earth would you assume that?

Quite the contrary, Slavs have been their arch-enemy for most of recorded history. It's like saying Greeks are Arabs or Persians.

Culturally, Latvia is Lutheran/Protestant, with Riga being one of the centers of Reformation. It has been a part of the West since the 1200s, which means it has been subject to the same historical processes as the rest of Western and Northern Europe. For instance, it was a mercantile colonial power in the 17th century, it was subject to the Swedish Church Law, with most people being literate by the 1700s.

The language itself is Baltic, a separate language tree, which in the case of Latvian was written in Gothic script of Latin since being written down. Balts were a separate civilization with their own religion and culture in pre-history. Old Prussian culture and its Baltic tribal structure and warrior ethos had a major effect on East Prussia and by extension the formation of the Prussian state that later unified Germany.

Estonia and Latvia were not 'created' after the USSR ceased to exist. They were created after a war of independence in 1918. As I said before, they were under a military occupation from 1945-1990, waging large scale guerrilla warfare well into the 1950s and collaborating with US, UK and Swedish secret services and trying to topple the regime until they were given up on. And it were the Baltics that ended the USSR in the 80s, with peaceful mass resistance and millions of people taking the streets. This led to a domino effect across the different parts of USSR that eventually made the whole thing go down. It did not 'fall' as if it were an autumn leaf.

The Livonian state was formed by the Baltic German nobility before the concept of ethnicity and nation states existed. Latvians and Estonians are entirely distinct ethnicities, which is why each has their own nation state, just like any other European country. So it's not a question that I understand. It's like asking why isn't Spain and Italy a single Roman state.

And if we get down to the basics, the Balkans are a radically different part of the continent with no relation to the Baltics, other than the 3 letters 'b', 'a' and 'l', similar to ballet. Which, too, is something else altogether.
 
I would agree with everything except for this sentence. While it might be true in Estonia's case, by the late 1930s hockey was very much a thing in Lithuania. We had a local championship since 1926 and by the 1930s pretty much every football club had a hockey branch. Our first international game - unsurprisingly against Latvia - in 1932 ended 3-0 in favor of Latvians but it was still a pretty close game by hockey standards (in 1996 it was 27-0 Latvia). We participated in the 1938 World Championships and finished with 1 win and 3 losses just like Latvia.

While basketball would have still probably turned into a dominant sport in Lithuania due to the level of success we have seen and the simplicity of infrastructure, hockey has lost A LOT of ground here due to the Soviet occupation.

The ever-so-gracious overlords saw it fit to build the first indoor rink(s) only in 1976 and only in the small town of Elektrenai while Kaunas basically built an unsanctioned one the same year out of spite with its building being covered up as a simple warehouse for higher-ups. To the point where after somebody snitched it to Moscow the arena was indeed filled with boxes and crap to make it look like a warehouse for the inspecting commission. Vilnius didn't have an indoor rink altogether for the longest time.

One can really say the Soviet rule was decisively against any kind of organized or professional (even though professional sports surely didn't exist in USSR) hockey in Lithuania. I might be wrong but I don't think it was quite as bad in Estonia where different reasons played a bigger role.
Very interesting, I had no idea hockey was a thing in Lithuania. I knew about 1938 and the 3-0, but I had no idea there was an actual hockey league. I wonder who the pioneers were? Were there any Latvians among them?
 
Very interesting, I had no idea hockey was a thing in Lithuania. I knew about 1938 and the 3-0, but I had no idea there was an actual hockey league. I wonder who the pioneers were? Were there any Latvians among them?
Steponas Darius (Steponas Darius - Wikipedia) is considered to be the father of pretty much all the "North American" sports in Lithuania including ice hockey, basketball, boxing and baseball after living in the USA from 1907 to 1920. Regarding the Latvians, I haven't heard of any but I will take a look maybe I will find something.

Edit: So yeah, upon a quick overview, in addition to Darius a person of note is also Kęstutis Bulota (Kęstutis Bulota - Wikipedia) who is credited with insisting on sticking to hockey over bandy after his studies in Berlin.

American Edgar Murphy (Edgar Murphy) is said to be the first foreigner to play for a Lithuanian club in 1937 so it's probably safe to say no Latvian had a notable direct influence.

The connection I did find, however, is ice hockey being called "ledo ripka" in the press, just like in this example:

1744697894930.png


And since "ripka" doesn't mean anything whatsoever nowadays in Lithuanian one has to assume it's connected to the Latvian "ripa". From this point, you know better how and where from "ripa" originated. Again, probably not a direct Latvian influence but something we had in common.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: kudla
Steponas Darius (Steponas Darius - Wikipedia) is considered to be the father of pretty much all the "North American" sports in Lithuania including ice hockey, basketball, boxing and baseball after living in the USA from 1907 to 1920. Regarding the Latvians, I haven't heard of any but I will take a look maybe I will find something.

Edit: So yeah, upon a quick overview, in addition to Darius a person of note is also Kęstutis Bulota (Kęstutis Bulota - Wikipedia) who is credited with insisting on sticking to hockey over bandy after his studies in Berlin.

American Edgar Murphy (Edgar Murphy) is said to be the first foreigner to play for a Lithuanian club in 1937 so it's probably safe to say no Latvian had a notable direct influence.

The connection I did find, however, is ice hockey being called "ledo ripka" in the press, just like in this example:

View attachment 1014117

And since "ripka" doesn't mean anything whatsoever nowadays in Lithuanian one has to assume it's connected to the Latvian "ripa". From this point, you know better how and where from "ripa" originated. Again, probably not a direct Latvian influence but something we had in common.
In most countries in Europe bandy preceded hockey and people just flocked to hockey naturally as time went on. And bandy was usually preceded by a thing played on ice with sticks. I'm wondering how widespread ice sports were in Lithuania, my impression has always been that it wasn't as naturally popular or structured as in Latvia or Estonia, but I might be wrong.

As for ripa, it stems from proto-Indo-European. Ripa, riepa is something that spins and is round (a wheel, a wheel saw or a puck). There's a Latin cognate in ripō and apparently the root for 'reptile' comes from the same proto word as ripa.

As for ripka: Ripka is a Lithuanian roll
 
You just stated a couple of things that could be bad for your health if said to a local.

First of all, Latvia is not Slavic in any respect. Why on Earth would you assume that?

Quite the contrary, Slavs have been their arch-enemy for most of recorded history. It's like saying Greeks are Arabs or Persians.

Culturally, Latvia is Lutheran/Protestant, with Riga being one of the centers of Reformation. It has been a part of the West since the 1200s, which means it has been subject to the same historical processes as the rest of Western and Northern Europe. For instance, it was a mercantile colonial power in the 17th century, it was subject to the Swedish Church Law, with most people being literate by the 1700s.

The language itself is Baltic, a separate language tree, which in the case of Latvian was written in Gothic script of Latin since being written down. Balts were a separate civilization with their own religion and culture in pre-history. Old Prussian culture and its Baltic tribal structure and warrior ethos had a major effect on East Prussia and by extension the formation of the Prussian state that later unified Germany.

Estonia and Latvia were not 'created' after the USSR ceased to exist. They were created after a war of independence in 1918. As I said before, they were under a military occupation from 1945-1990, waging large scale guerrilla warfare well into the 1950s and collaborating with US, UK and Swedish secret services and trying to topple the regime until they were given up on. And it were the Baltics that ended the USSR in the 80s, with peaceful mass resistance and millions of people taking the streets. This led to a domino effect across the different parts of USSR that eventually made the whole thing go down. It did not 'fall' as if it were an autumn leaf.

The Livonian state was formed by the Baltic German nobility before the concept of ethnicity and nation states existed. Latvians and Estonians are entirely distinct ethnicities, which is why each has their own nation state, just like any other European country. So it's not a question that I understand. It's like asking why isn't Spain and Italy a single Roman state.

And if we get down to the basics, the Balkans are a radically different part of the continent with no relation to the Baltics, other than the 3 letters 'b', 'a' and 'l', similar to ballet. Which, too, is something else altogether.
My friend, I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up? I was obviously asking the questions so that I can learn more about the subject. Burried in your cynical comments you provided some very interesting context - of which I learned from - maybe stick to that next time in a conversation.

As far as the Baltics and Balcans, I never said that they had any relation, other than the fact that many nations were granted statehood with the collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia respectively. It's the varied cultures that exist which fascinates me.

I'm literally attempting to be LESS ignorant and educated about them, which is why I ask questions and not make statements. So I thank you for the content, but wish you could be slightly more civil in delivering it.
 
Europe is, mostly, made of nation-states. There is nothing that would suggest Estonians and Latvians are the same nation - completely separate language and culture. The only "cultural cohesion", as you aptly put it, between those is in broad terms common regional history. Livonia was just a geographical reference that later turned into an administrative unit out of convenience to the overlord of those lands.

"Aren't necessarily considered Slavic" is also quite an understatement since none of the Baltic nations have anything to do with Slavs other than, again, partially common history with some of the Slavic nations/states.

Komarov's parents moved out of Estonia very early in his life so hockey was inconsequential. He grew up in the Swedish-speaking part of Finland. MuIK in Nykarleby is listed as his youth team.
I'm thinking that I had based my assumption on the percentage of Slavs living in the Baltic countries. I researched "Slavic people" a while back and they were listed as countries with a large population of them. Would Lithuania share closer cultural and linguistic ties to Finland as opposed to Poland then?
 
My friend, I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up? I was obviously asking the questions so that I can learn more about the subject. Burried in your cynical comments you provided some very interesting context - of which I learned from - maybe stick to that next time in a conversation.

As far as the Baltics and Balcans, I never said that they had any relation, other than the fact that many nations were granted statehood with the collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia respectively. It's the varied cultures that exist which fascinates me.

I'm literally attempting to be LESS ignorant and educated about them, which is why I ask questions and not make statements. So I thank you for the content, but wish you could be slightly more civil in delivering it.
Try asking a Jew why they don't get along with Arabs since they're all Arabic anyways.

The reaction should be a part of the learning experience
 
In Estonia and Lithuania it never really became a thing before the Soviet military occupation of the Baltics, with bandy being more popular in Estonia at the time while in Lithuania ice sports were not particularly popular. Over there, ice hockey was viewed as a Russian sport with extremely negative connotations. If you'd look up the names on the Estonian national team, Russians are still an outsized minority there, but it used to be much worse.

I can´t with that certainty say about Lithuania, but with Estonia this is incorrect in longer historical perspective.

Hockey surpassed bandy very quickly in Estonia. First hockey game that i have found of was played in Estonia in 1932. But it quickly surpassed Bandy and from 1936-1940 there wasn´t even Bandy champiohip played in Estonia.

The first Soviet occupation brought bandy back and when that ended newspaper articles jubileed that they can now freely again play hockey as it isn´t subdued by Soviets.

After 1945 the tones were ofcourse different in papers. Amazing opportunities to make connections and travell across Soviet Union if their level is good enough in bandy. Hockey then was ofcourse just starting in Soviet Union.

Obviously over the years hockey became russian sport in the eyes of Estonian people. But historically that is more complicated. They lost connections with Sweden and especially Finland from which they weren´t far of. And far more clearer selected hockey than for example Finland were bandy still was big thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Namejs
Try asking a Jew why they don't get along with Arabs since they're all Arabic anyways.

The reaction should be a part of the learning experience
Poetic, and I truly understand the sentiment.

I was not however stating anything as fact. I was literally asking questions to learn more about it. I would have completely understood the premise if you had provided it in detail. You're obviously well educated in the matter, so I'm sure that you could have eloquently described it in a manner in which I would have understood the connotations.

As far as the first question, are you referring to pre-Zionist movement Jews? If that's the case, if you asked out of a genuine desire to understand the situation - and without an malice implied - I think that a typical Arab Jew would have a discussion with you about it.
 
Well, from the Lithuanian perspective - thank you Japan and Poland. Our destiny is back in our own hands.

This Polish team reminds me of Ukraine 2018, which beat Austria with Marco Rossi, Baumgartner, Zundel, Nickl, Huber, Lanziger, and Thaler, despite barely any players eventually turning pro. Of course, this is not a similar achievement yet, and they might still crash to the 4th place of whatever but boy are they overachieving compared to the expectations.

Even though Poland has never finished higher than 4th in 1B and would be last every time they played in it over the previous 10 years, you have to consider them to be the promotion favorites at this point.

Only 3 players from this team played for the Polish U20, that barely saved themselves from relegation with a last-day narrow 2-1 win against Korea. Furthermore, the best Polish prospects in the past, like Jeziorski or Pas, were pretty serious scorers in the Polish league by age 17. The leading scorers of this team, meanwhile, are firmly still in the Polish 2nd division. Or the huge gap between the scoring pace of Krzysztof Macias in the Czech U20s compared to the current crop...

So yeah. This isn't a fluke; Poles are legitimately playing well, but how do they do it is a bit of a mystery.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Summer Rose
I didn't really watch Japanese games that closely until today but they have 2 defensemen who get ice time below 165 cm. When a team like Lithuania has an average height of 185,5 cm. Even against Korea Japan seems like a small team. No wonder they aren't doing great with such a tremendous handicap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Summer Rose
Back to the tournament, Orlov got mentioned already but the guy I've been impressed with is Matvei Kalamees. Absolute beast in almost all defensive facets, even more so as an underager.

Also Antonov is playing D for whatevet reason and looking absolutely forgetable.
Yes, Kalamees is playing well. He may have a good future in the national team, as our D prospect pool is sparse. Orlov has been kinda slow, but he was injured for a long time and the team as whole looks like their first time together.

Antonov playing D and the constant shuffling of the lines just shows that the preparation sucked. This combined with a weak birthyear means that we really need a miracle to not relegate. 1 win is also probably not enough.

Hopefully Lithuanian hockey fans get to watch a somewhat exciting game, but most likely the score will not be small.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Summer Rose
Honestly, this tournament is too exciting for me as is, especially having Friday and Saturday games in mind. I would love an unexciting, easy win today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Summer Rose
Yes, Kalamees is playing well. He may have a good future in the national team, as our D prospect pool is sparse.
I wonder what his thoughts are on leaving Estonia. Surely he could easily find a club in Finland if only he wanted to. If he does, I actually think he has a decent chance of making it there as a pro if he wants it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Summer Rose
Honestly, this tournament is too exciting for me as is, especially having Friday and Saturday games in mind. I would love an unexciting, easy win today.
Understandable :D
I wonder what his thoughts are on leaving Estonia. Surely he could easily find a club in Finland if only he wanted to. If he does, I actually think he has a decent chance of making it there as a pro if he wants it.
I am sure that they are looking for some better ways to develope.


I wanted to quickly add a few things for the history about Estonian hockey and why we are where we are today. Estonia played its first match againts Latvia in 1932 already and has organised national chamionships since 1934. We got the IIHF full member status in 1935. So hockey was very much a thing in Estonia in 1930s.

After the war, our clubs did well in the Soviet championships, but we fell behind in the 50s, because organising competition schedules was not possible with no artificial rinks. We only got our first artificial rink in 1967, but Estonians were already behind. Since then it has been a "Russian sport" like it is today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sanf
Don't underestimate Andriej Gusov's ability to f*ck things up. He's not very liked in Poland and barely held onto his position, so honestly I don't have much faith in him to finish the job. Yes, so far Poland is overachieving but I think things will become more even vs. Lithuania and Korea, my prediction is they'll ultimately finish 3rd.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PanniniClaus
Important Korean regulation win for Estonia, making it so a single regulation win against Japan would [most likely] keep them in the division. Not like it's very likely they will achieve it but at least there is a chance. Estonia also has an excellent record in relegation games.
 
Don't underestimate Andriej Gusov's ability to f*ck things up. He's not very liked in Poland and barely held onto his position, so honestly I don't have much faith in him to finish the job. Yes, so far Poland is overachieving but I think things will become more even vs. Lithuania and Korea, my prediction is they'll ultimately finish 3rd.
I did see some highlights of the U18 Latvia B v U18 Poland game and your team had a couple of pretty nifty forwards and held the game somewhat close, so it would make sense if you got promoted.

At the same time doesn't Lithuania have a bit of a golden generation thing going on this time around?
 
  • Like
Reactions: legionista
Estonia looked like a bunch of pylons during those 3 goals. Kalamees showed some good plays
Sildre is weak on his shortside, and this was also capitalised by Poland
 
I don't know what the issue is with Ignatavicius but he is just not on it. I don't think he is snakebitten, he is just legitimately not making the most out of his chances. Maybe he suffered some kind of injury against France who really targeted him, often quite recklessly. Stuck on 2 points while Jukna has 7, that's just not right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PanniniClaus
I did see some highlights of the U18 Latvia B v U18 Poland game and your team had a couple of pretty nifty forwards and held the game somewhat close, so it would make sense if you got promoted.

At the same time doesn't Lithuania have a bit of a golden generation thing going on this time around?
I'm no expert in Lithuanian Jr. hockey, but certainly from their official roster for this tournament they have players playing at very good Swedish, Swiss, Finnish and NA clubs.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Ad

Ad