2025 HHOF

[Staniowski]

Mogilny....

*sigh*

Honestly I'd be fine with it as a builder more than as a player. But whatever.

What does that mean....you have high standards for players (which is fine), but really, really low standards for builders? What did Mogilny build?

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Staal is weird.

He checks off alot of the boxes.

Big part of a Stanley Cup.

Olympic Gold for Canada

Over 1k points.

But then in the playoffs he started out great with 19 goals and PPG in his first two runs but then he missed them for 7 years straight and when he finally got back he was in steep decline hurting those numbers.

Perry is getting in,I know he has a Hart and a Rocket but his numbers aren't as good.

Getzlaf seems like a lock (and I think he should be in) but would you really say his career was that much better? They both have one second team all star and international success.

I think Staal eventually gets in in a weak year.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, I don't know if it will get brushed off as "vibes" or "skibidi" or whatever, but give me Getzlaf and Zetterberg over Staal with plenty of room to spare.

I'd start talking Staal if we were talking more along the lines of, I don't know, John LeClair maybe...?

 

[sr edler]

Remember a few years back on this board, we had tons of Pierre Turgeon threads going on, people couldn't stop talking about him, he was a hotter topic than prime Makar. Since he's an inductee not a single peep.

This is essentially what HHOF does to a mid range 'superstar' player, strips all the mystique and contention and then there's nothing left to talk about, despite nothing having changed at all.

 

[Sampe from the 2000s]

Mogilny belongs, especially given the historical significance (first NHL draftee to defect from USSSR). I have probably underrated him; his ES and primary production are really good in relation to his point totals. But over Price and Zetterberg, and in the current political climate? Surprising. There were plenty of equally or more deserving candidates to choose from.

Botterill's achievements are not generational level, but she clearly belongs:

NCAA (4 seasons in 1998–2003): 113.157+183=340
(all-time leader in points & points/gp), 2-time college MVP (2001, 2003)

• NOTE: NCAA does not recognize her first two college seasons, as they were not sanctioned by them

NWHL-CA (3 seasons in 2003–2007): 86.67+83=150
CWHL (3 seasons in 2007–2011): 78.61+94=155 (top scorer in 2007–08)
Olympic Games (4 tournaments: 3 G + 1 S): 21.4+11=15 (12th in scoring in 2002; 10th in 2006)
World Championships (8 tournaments: 5 G, 3 S): 40.26+33=59
(22nd in 2000; 4th in 2001; 1st in 2004; 7th in 2005; 12th in 2007; 3rd in 2008; 7th in 2009)

• NOTE: 1 of 4 female players to be named MVP of two World Championships (2001, 2004)
• 1 All Star Team nomination (2004)

 

[JackSlater]

Keith, Chara, and Thornton were obvious. Mogilny was inevitable, he can go in the Turgeon wing where players go when people clamour for them to enter after they've forgotten the player and look back at some stats.

Would have been nice for Zetterberg to go in, but that should happen soon. Getzlaf and Price will get in. I never considered that Staal would be up soon. Should be a clear no, but who knows? His career numbers aren't going to blow anyone away and I don't know what his "hook" to get in would be.

 

[The Macho Man]

What does that mean....you have high standards for players (which is fine), but really, really low standards for builders? What did Mogilny build?

Maybe im misremebering, but Mogilny's dramatic entrance to the US to play i think had a massive impact on the game. Do I have him mixed up with someone else?

 

[seventieslord]

yeah idk vibes, whatever but Zetterberg's bulk of career value being 2005-06 through 2012-13, age 25-32 for Zetterberg and age 21-28 for Staal you got Staal being 10th in aggregate points (0.98 PPG), Zetterberg 11th in aggregate points (1.02 PPG), Staal 5th in aggregate goals (0.422 GPG), Zetterberg 16th in aggregate goals (0.394 GPG). Both with one Cup where they were very important. Staal played a lot more Center and won about 1,000 more faceoffs (but Zetterberg with a 51.7 % vs. 47.4 % edge)

Red Wing mystique and what have you, but I don't think there's a monster separation between them, especially when you factor in Staal having a 148 point post 2012-13 career edge.

.... And one was terrible defensively and one was almost the best defensive forward in the NHL. No contest.

 

[Staniowski]

Maybe im misremebering, but Mogilny's dramatic entrance to the US to play i think had a massive impact on the game. Do I have him mixed up with someone else?

Mogilny was the first Soviet to defect (I think), but many Czechoslovakians had already defected to play in the NHL, including the Stastnys, Klima, Svoboda, Pivonka, and several more). Plus, the Berlin Wall fell shortly after he defected, and Soviets could leave without defecting not that long after. So, it didn't have a big effect on many other players.

I think his defection is worth mentioning, but I don't see how it's worthy of induction into the Hall of Fame.

 

[Albatros]

Maybe im misremebering, but Mogilny's dramatic entrance to the US to play i think had a massive impact on the game. Do I have him mixed up with someone else?

I get the story part, but what was the impact? Him and Fedorov were the only Soviet players ever to defect, joining at a time when there already were a number of prominent Soviet players in the league. And if defection is enough to get you in, why is that not an argument for players from Czechoslovakia?

 

[overpass]

yeah idk vibes, whatever but Zetterberg's bulk of career value being 2005-06 through 2012-13, age 25-32 for Zetterberg and age 21-28 for Staal you got Staal being 10th in aggregate points (0.98 PPG), Zetterberg 11th in aggregate points (1.02 PPG), Staal 5th in aggregate goals (0.422 GPG), Zetterberg 16th in aggregate goals (0.394 GPG). Both with one Cup where they were very important. Staal played a lot more Center and won about 1,000 more faceoffs (but Zetterberg with a 51.7 % vs. 47.4 % edge)

Red Wing mystique and what have you, but I don't think there's a monster separation between them, especially when you factor in Staal having a 148 point post 2012-13 career edge.

The Western Conference was much stronger than the East in those seasons between the lockouts, which wasn't really reflected in the stats and standings because there weren't many inter-conference games in those seasons. I'm an Eastern Conference fan but I have to admit that's the way it was.

Staal and Spezza put up good scoring numbers in the East. I doubt they would have done as well in the West, which was loaded with good defensive teams and strong two-way centres. I love Spezza and would love to argue him for the Hall (I'd have him over Mogilny), but he often struggled on those Western road trips. Zetterberg and Getzlaf were just on another level.

 

[The Macho Man]

I get the story part, but what was the impact? Him and Fedorov were the only Soviet players ever to defect, joining at a time when there already were a number of prominent Soviet players in the league. And if defection is enough to get you in, why is that not an argument for players from Czechoslovakia?

Mogilny was the first Soviet to defect (I think), but many Czechoslovakians had already defected to play in the NHL, including the Stastnys, Klima, Svoboda, Pivonka, and several more). Plus, the Berlin Wall fell shortly after he defected, and Soviets could leave without defecting not that long after. So, it didn't have a big effect on many other players.

I think his defection is worth mentioning, but I don't see how it's worthy of induction into the Hall of Fame.

I'm convinced. He shouldn't be in as a builder either.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

the funny thing about those sabres 1989-1993 is they had three hall of famers at various points: barrasso, fuhr, and hasek, but daren puppa was the best one those years.

led the league in wins and second in vezina voting to peak roy in 1990.

and now it’s a hall of fame that includes both turgeon and mogilny (a guy i love, fwiw) while the third best guy from the piestany game is still waiting to get in. a travesty.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I like Spezza and all but I'm not sure how he'd have an argument over Staal.

Also I know this the 2025 class but anyone surprised Brind Amour isn't in yet?

Nearly 1200 points, Key member of a Cup winner, 2 Selkes, Jack Adams.

Figure he gets in eventually

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

to follow up:

wjc gold
turner cup (IHL)
stanley cup
canada cup
olympic gold
2nd, 6th, 7th in goals
6th, 7th, 8th in pts
2nd team all-star and twice top five in hart voting
450 goals/1,000 pts
> pt/game in the rs
> pt/game over 77 career playoff games

before even getting into intangibles landslide, tell me mogilny or turgeon have a better on paper resume than this. equal, sure. but better?

 

[tabness]

to follow up:

wjc gold
turner cup (IHL)
stanley cup
canada cup
olympic gold
2nd, 6th, 7th in goals
6th, 7th, 8th in pts
2nd team all-star and twice top five in hart voting
450 goals/1,000 pts
> pt/game in the rs
> pt/game over 77 career playoff games

before even getting into intangibles landslide, tell me mogilny or turgeon have a better on paper resume than this. equal, sure. but better?

I think people just need to realize the "on paper resumes" in vogue by quite a few here at HF aren't exactly the criteria that the broader hockey world is going by, including the selection committee.

Fleury was a great player. I got time to listen about him being better than Turgeon. I'd probably take him in many cases over Turgeon for my team depending on need.

I'd never think twice taking Mogilny over Fleury, even if he told me to my face that he was gonna half ass, no, quarter ass it the entire time, and not even play road games cause he didn't want to fly.

 

[pandro]

Regarding Mogilny's defection, I'd like to quote myself on the subject:

That is simply not true.
Mogilny fled the Soviet team camp in Sweden in May 1989. The same month Fetisov was officially released from his obligations in a process that started in September 1988. In June 1989 Fetisov signed his contract with the Devils.
So Mogilny's defection may have sped things up for him personally, but changed nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[wetcoast]

yeah idk vibes, whatever but Zetterberg's bulk of career value being 2005-06 through 2012-13, age 25-32 for Zetterberg and age 21-28 for Staal you got Staal being 10th in aggregate points (0.98 PPG), Zetterberg 11th in aggregate points (1.02 PPG), Staal 5th in aggregate goals (0.422 GPG), Zetterberg 16th in aggregate goals (0.394 GPG). Both with one Cup where they were very important. Staal played a lot more Center and won about 1,000 more faceoffs (but Zetterberg with a 51.7 % vs. 47.4 % edge)

Red Wing mystique and what have you, but I don't think there's a monster separation between them, especially when you factor in Staal having a 148 point post 2012-13 career edge.

Sure except Zetterberg brought a lot more to the table than scoring and his playoff excellence is also much better than Staal.

That's the difference, when watching peak Zetterberg in the playoffs he felt like a HHOFer, Staal not so much.

 

[wetcoast]

Mogilny was the first Soviet to defect (I think), but many Czechoslovakians had already defected to play in the NHL, including the Stastnys, Klima, Svoboda, Pivonka, and several more). Plus, the Berlin Wall fell shortly after he defected, and Soviets could leave without defecting not that long after. So, it didn't have a big effect on many other players.

I think his defection is worth mentioning, but I don't see how it's worthy of induction into the Hall of Fame.

Well Václav Nedomanský isn't in for his NHL career and his Czech one while very good, in a way, isn't overwhelmingly good.

I actually forgot that the Big guy got in and he isn't a strong center in the HHOF but sure the whole first to defect narrative means waht exactly?

Maybe some of these voters grew up in households were that mattered, I dunno.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

to follow up:

wjc gold
turner cup (IHL)
stanley cup
canada cup
olympic gold
2nd, 6th, 7th in goals
6th, 7th, 8th in pts
2nd team all-star and twice top five in hart voting
450 goals/1,000 pts
> pt/game in the rs
> pt/game over 77 career playoff games

before even getting into intangibles landslide, tell me mogilny or turgeon have a better on paper resume than this. equal, sure. but better?

Fleury is like JC Tremblay. He clearly meets the criteria for HOF induction when compared to his peers. But both of them pissed off the "hockey establishment" in a big (although very different) way, so they're on the outside.

 

[bobholly39]

I have to say I'm shocked Carey Price didn't make it.

Not because I'm a biased fan who I know rates him way higher than most and who thinks he should be in.

Simply looking at it objectively - his reputation throughout the hockey world is super, super high, and always has been. I never would have expected he would wait a year. In fact - I even could have seen the hockey world vote him in above both Chara and Keith if there wasn't spots for all 3. So - pretty shocking.

Not a huge deal overall - he'll get in next year. But it's still surprising to me.

 

[jigglysquishy]

For the record, I wouldn't vote Staal or Spezza in. But both are well liked and edge cases. Staal has 2006 and the 2010 Olympics. Spezza won't get the call but I suspect Staal does eventually.

 

[JianYang]

Price to me is surefire next year.

Are we all in agreement than Jason Spezza isn't a HHOFer? I'd probably induct Keith Tkachuk and Theo Fleury over him and I don't even really consider either player Hall worthy. I suppose Fleury has the strongest case of the three?

Staal is a maybe for me. Leaning no.

Zetterberg, Elias, and Getlzaf are worthy and should all get in over the next few years.

Curtis Joseph I'd have to think will get in eventually. Surely not before Price though.

I thought Joseph was already inducted. Anyways, with the recent goalie inductions, I figure its only a matter of time for cujo.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sure except Zetterberg brought a lot more to the table than scoring and his playoff excellence is also much better than Staal.

That's the difference, when watching peak Zetterberg in the playoffs he felt like a HHOFer, Staal not so much.

For the record, I don't have some massive bone to pick saying one prefers Zetterberg to Staal, I think he probably peaked higher because of the 2-way stuff, but I just have a natural pushback to instances where people say things like "he doesn't feel like a Hall of Famer". Staal's case is curious, his reputation would likely be a lot better if 2006, completely identical of a season, occurred when he was 27. Guys who win early and then not again seem to be a less respected for it than having it come as some sort of multi-year arc and culmination. Playing the bulk of his prime on a lousy sun belt team likely hurts his "feel like" case a good bit.

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It's a pretty big gulf in terms of what they were working with.

Ultimately to bring it back, I think both will likely get put in, while Jason Spezza does not.

 

[JianYang]

Staal is weird.

He checks off alot of the boxes.

Big part of a Stanley Cup.

Olympic Gold for Canada

Over 1k points.

But then in the playoffs he started out great with 19 goals and PPG in his first two runs but then he missed them for 7 years straight and when he finally got back he was in steep decline hurting those numbers.

Perry is getting in,I know he has a Hart and a Rocket but his numbers aren't as good.

Getzlaf seems like a lock (and I think he should be in) but would you really say his career was that much better? They both have one second team all star and international success.

I think Staal eventually gets in in a weak year.

Staal peaked very early. His most productive season was by far his sophomore season. He never came close to touching that again, but it wasn't good enough to get him individual hardware either the way it did for perry.

Its stands to reason why he made the 2010 Olympic team but not 2014, whereas I believe perry was there for both.

To me, Staal kind is kind of in that Vincent damphousse tier. They got cups, the counting stats are just enough for consideratio , but maybe just missing that one extra little item on their resume to put them over the hump.