2025 HHOF

[vadim sharifijanov]

i’ll admit i don’t know much about the women’s game outside of watching gold medal games every four years and knowing the big names, but i am surprised manon rheaume isn’t in the hall yet.

 

[jigglysquishy]

There's still a few big names to go in. Jennifer Botterill. Hilda Ranscombe is an easy old name.

 

[vikash1987]

6th year:
Elias
Lecavalier
B. Richards

I don’t think they should or will be inducted, but IF it does happen for them this year (or in the future), it wouldn’t surprise me if Lecavalier and Richards go in together. The whole teammate thing seems to be something that the Selection Committee tries to weave in every so often

 

[The Panther]

I don’t think they should or will be inducted, but IF it does happen for them this year (or in the future), it wouldn’t surprise me if Lecavalier and Richards go in together. The whole teammate thing seems to be something that the Selection Committee tries to weave in every so often

I can't see either Lecavalier or Richards making it. There's already a backlog of guys like Zetterberg who are more deserving (in my opinion).

 

[Staniowski]

I don’t think they should or will be inducted, but IF it does happen for them this year (or in the future), it wouldn’t surprise me if Lecavalier and Richards go in together. The whole teammate thing seems to be something that the Selection Committee tries to weave in every so often

I also don't think either Lecavalier or Richards will ever be inducted. The names I mentioned are just those, going back six years of becoming eligible, who might at least have some support. You never know, but I don't see it.

I agree about the teammate thing. I think the Selection Committee probably (sometimes) discusses things like this.

 

[Staniowski]

They've got to put the brakes on the female players. Pretty soon practically every regular on the U.S. or Canada since 1998 or so will be in the HOF. That's not right.

My Best-Carey

Yeah, the Selection Committee is going to have to figure this out. Inducting women players is still relatively new, and they're going to have to get a feel for the right amount of selections over the long term, though the quality of the women's game might change a bit over the long term too.

It was similar with the men, who were first Inducted in 1945. The early decades of hockey- probably the first 30 years or so - are wildly overrepresented in the HHOF, to such an extent that almost all of the weakest inductees are from those early eras.

And then it became more reasonable.

The men and women might always be on a somewhat different wavelengths with regards to quality. Time will tell.

Maybe the women will end up similar to Referees/Linsemen, where there's only an induction every several years, or maybe something more than that but less than one or two every year.

 

[The Macho King]

I think you'll be correct, but I could also see them trying to make space to put Thornton and Marleau in at the same time.

I feel like if Marleau has any shot, it will have to be in the same class as Thornton. Mind you, they shouldn't, but I don't think you have to squint too hard to see that happening.

Jesus Marleau better not get in.

Edit: and the sad part is despite how terrible an induction it would be, im not even sure it's bottom 5 from the last decade.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The HHoF has done a poor job of representing pre 1900 hockey.

No Weldy Young. No Jack Campbell. No Dolly Swift.

 

[seventieslord]

I think it's all first year inductees. Price, Chara, Keith, Thornton.

Easiest class to predict in a generation. How can they leave any of those four out? The other first timers are considerably far back from them. Getzlaf would be next best and he's quite distant, and not even 100% of us think he should get in (I do). In the guys who've been waiting for 6 years or fewer, Elias and Zetterberg are slam dunks for me, but not everyone, and they're decidedly behind those four. Plus there's Marleau who everyone begrudgingly agrees will get in, and he's not nearly as good as either of those two or Zetterberg.

So, first and final answer: Price, Chara, Keith, Thornton.

 

[The Pale King]

I'd be more than okay if they made Thornton wait a year to get Zetterberg in there.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Let's not go nuts...

 

[BenchBrawl]

Wait, Zetterberg is not in yet? I'm amazed at that.

He was too good, too prominent & warrior-like in that classic playoff duology against Pittsburgh to stay out.

Not saying he should be ranked over the newer candidates but Z feels like a player we want in the HHoF given current standards.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'd include Price, Chara, Zetterberg and Keith.

Then Getzlaf.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Thornton should be punished for a couple years. I like him but they have to make an example out of him, to teach the others. Like Auston Matthews, for example.

 

[Sergei Bure]

Wait, Zetterberg is not in yet? I'm amazed at that.

He was too good, too prominent & warrior-like in that classic playoff duology against Pittsburgh to stay out.

Not saying he should be ranked over the newer candidates but Z feels like a player we want in the HHoF given current standards.

He was much more decisive than Datsyuk ever was in the playoffs...

 

[FlashyDeke]

He was much more decisive than Datsyuk ever was in the playoffs...

You are not wrong.He was ENG Artist

 

[wetcoast]

Thornton should be punished for a couple years. I like him but they have to make an example out of him, to teach the others. Like Auston Matthews, for example.

Punished for what exactly?

Either a guy is a HHOFer or he isn't?

AM is also tracking as a "first ballot" HHOFer.

Not every HHOFer has an Orr or Gretzky type of resume, guys like Thornton and AM (in 5 years) will both have better than average HHOF resumes.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Punished for what exactly?

Either a guy is a HHOFer or he isn't?

AM is also tracking as a "first ballot" HHOFer.

Not every HHOFer has an Orr or Gretzky type of resume, guys like Thornton and AM (in 5 years) will both have better than average HHOF resumes.

I let you guess. You get three tries.

 

[MadLuke]

Either a guy is a HHOFer or he isn't?

Yes, but first year of eligibility HHOF is a different category (and in the past waiving the waiting window an even different one)

Some very obvious HHOF player had to wait, like Turgeon-Lindros-Bure (maybe partly for the last 2 a bit of will they make a comeback they are quite young... but maybe also, won nothing in the nhl, did not play much, some did not like you for Lindros)

By making the Roenick-Turgeon-Barasso-Carbonneau-Lindros wait, they create a different class of just being an HHOF or not versus the Brodeur-Iginla-Hossa-StLouis-Lundqvist-Lidstrom-Pronger-Chelios-Sakic-Sundin-Yzerman-Messier-Stevens-MacInnis.

here is the list of 3 years or less of waiting (they tend to be no weakness entry, if you missed a lot of time like Lemieux-Forsberg-Orr you made up for it by winning when you played, if you did not win it like Iginla-Sundin-Luongo you had giant longevity superb career to make it a no-brainer):
-9 Mario Lemieux
-8 Gordie Howe
-3 Guy Lafleur
0 Bobby Orr
0 Wayne Gretzky
1 Maurice Richard
1 Ted Lindsay
1 Terry Sawchuk
1 Jean Beliveau
2 Red Kelly
3 Tim Horton
3 Alex Delvecchio
3 John Bucyk
3 Yvan Cournoyer
3 Stan Mikita
3 Bobby Hull
3 Phil Esposito
3 Serge Savard
3 Bobby Clarke
3 Brad Park
3 Gilbert Perreault
3 Denis Potvin
3 Lanny McDonald
3 Bob Gainey
3 Marcel Dionne
3 Larry Robinson
3 Bryan Trottier
3 Peter Stastny
3 Denis Savard
3 Joe Mullen
3 Jari Kurri
3 Mike Gartner
3 Viacheslav Fetisov
3 Grant Fuhr
3 Larry Murphy
3 Paul Coffey
3 Raymond Bourque
3 Patrick Roy
3 Scott Stevens
3 Mark Messier
3 Al MacInnis
3 Ron Francis
3 Steve Yzerman
3 Luc Robitaille
3 Brian Leetch
3 Brett Hull
3 Mats Sundin
3 Joe Sakic
3 Scott Niedermayer
3 Chris Chelios
3 Mike Modano
3 Peter Forsberg
3 Chris Pronger
3 Nicklas Lidstrom
3 Teemu Selanne
3 Martin St. Louis
3 Martin Brodeur
3 Jarome Iginla
3 Marian Hossa
3 Roberto Luongo
3 Henrik Lundqvist
3 Shea Weber




That list of name feel different from the had to wait 9 years or more (it would be easy to guess for someone which was which):
9 Ted Kennedy
9 Ed Giacomin
9 Guy Lapointe
9 Rod Langway
9 Cam Neely
9 Pavel Bure
9 Eric Lindros
10 Bill Mosienko
10 Butch Bouchard
10 Sergei Zubov
11 Dino Ciccarelli
11 Dave Andreychuk
12 Allan Stanley
12 Bernie Federko
12 Glenn Anderson
12 Phil Housley
13 Jacques Laperriere
14 Clark Gillies
15 Jeremy Roenick
16 Leo Boivin
16 Mark Howe
16 Pierre Turgeon
19 Bob Pulford
19 Sergei Makarov
19 Guy Carbonneau
20 Bill Quackenbush
20 Harry Lumley
20 Tom Barrasso
21 Mike Vernon
22 Kevin Lowe
23 Bert Olmstead
27 Doug Wilson
29 Fern Flaman
34 Dick Duff
34 Rogie Vachon
36 Vaclav Nedomansky
37 Harry Watson
38 Edgar Laprade

I.e. there is category/level of HHOF induction and not just you are a HHOF guy or not, otherwise why a waiting system, every year include all the HHOF retired (even if it is 6 of them) and do not create those subclass....

The most surprising name for the had to wait in the recent was maybe Shanahan, but sakic-sundin-oates-bure is year....

 

[BenchBrawl]

As for Auston Matthews tracking to be a 1st ballot HHOF, don't you see the problem with this, and why I want Thornton to wait a couple of years (before invariably getting in)?

Put yourself in the shoes of Toronto Maple Leafs fans, their emotions year after year, the disappointments, the false hopes, the humiliation. This is why it matters that you show up big in the playoffs. It matters to you, and to the fans. It even matters to the competition, whose glory depends on what kind of adversary they beat.

Now the narrative has gone so far as blaming the fans and the city! "It's too hard to play in Toronto", "If they played elsewhere, they would win more". How f***ing outrageous and insulting to a passionate fanbase.

 

[MadLuke]

Now the narrative has gone so far as blaming the fans and the city! "It's too hard to play in Toronto", "If they played elsewhere, they would win more"

Also a lot of that group had the "chance" to have the perfect experiment if that was the case, to play in a litteral quiet bubble:

with no social life/fans interaction, crowds.

They lost to the very mighty Colombus in the qualifying round in 2020 and to the stacked great Toffoli-Perry-Armia-kotkaniemi habs....

This is a strange case when you have the mental thought experiment forum type of talk, what if they were not the Leafs anymore, with the city-fanbases-crowd pressure, living in closed down bubble, playing in empty arena, making every teams as 100% equals as we can in every possible ways.

We had it in real life, 2 years in a row, they lost, which remove that excuse for them (rightly or wrongly) I feel like, to even start to be used (and people that used it does not seem to explain 2020/2021 arguably their worse result, considering who they loose to, those Panthers-Lightings-Bruins were really good at least, there no shame losing to that caliber of teams in a vacuum would they have lost honorably).

In the 4 nations tourney, Matthews was just one of many, playing in the same environment and pressure as everyone else, scored 0 goals.

It is not rational, it is low sampling size team sports elimination system (imagine in football....) but at the same time they get all the glory when it goes well with the same low sampling irrational conclusion.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yes, but first year of elligibility HHOF is a different category (and in the pass waiving the waiting window an even different one)

I first read this and nodded and then I was like, "is it though? I know baseball has a certain hang up about it, but does hockey, maybe I should look into..." and then I scrolled down and saw you did all the work, thanks for that haha

 

[MadLuke]

"is it though? I know baseball has a certain hang up about it, but does hockey,

The tradition of waiving the 3 years mandatory time to think about it period for the legends level player leave no doubt that there is a prestige/status element with how long you have to wait to get in for the HHOF and not just in an unspoken/unofficial way when you look back at the names, they said it themselves by doing that.

It does not have the high bar baseball has for it, but the hall does not have the same bar in general either..

 

[wetcoast]

I let you guess. You get three tries.

Sure the narrative from the 05 playoffs when he played injured follow him around everywhere.

I guess another point is that there is a false equivalency from baseball regarding "first time HHOFer's" that really doesn't translate to the NHL but some people like the idea.

They vote in baseball and it's all public and a different process.

Also I'm agreement with this post here and the four guys going in are easy calls.

Easiest class to predict in a generation. How can they leave any of those four out? The other first timers are considerably far back from them. Getzlaf would be next best and he's quite distant, and not even 100% of us think he should get in (I do). In the guys who've been waiting for 6 years or fewer, Elias and Zetterberg are slam dunks for me, but not everyone, and they're decidedly behind those four. Plus there's Marleau who everyone begrudgingly agrees will get in, and he's not nearly as good as either of those two or Zetterberg.

So, first and final answer: Price, Chara, Keith, Thornton.

So I'm more of a he is either in or he isn't, the waiting game not so worried about.

 

[wetcoast]

Yes, but first year of eligibility HHOF is a different category (and in the past waiving the waiting window an even different one)

Some very obvious HHOF player had to wait, like Turgeon-Lindros-Bure (maybe partly for the last 2 a bit of will they make a comeback they are quite young... but maybe also, won nothing in the nhl, did not play much, some did not like you for Lindros)

By making the Roenick-Turgeon-Barasso-Carbonneau-Lindros wait, they create a different class of just being an HHOF or not versus the Brodeur-Iginla-Hossa-StLouis-Lundqvist-Lidstrom-Pronger-Chelios-Sakic-Sundin-Yzerman-Messier-Stevens-MacInnis.

here is the list of 3 years or less of waiting (they tend to be no weakness entry, if you missed a lot of time like Lemieux-Forsberg-Orr you made up for it by winning when you played, if you did not win it like Iginla-Sundin-Luongo you had giant longevity superb career to make it a no-brainer):
-9 Mario Lemieux
-8 Gordie Howe
-3 Guy Lafleur
0 Bobby Orr
0 Wayne Gretzky
1 Maurice Richard
1 Ted Lindsay
1 Terry Sawchuk
1 Jean Beliveau
2 Red Kelly
3 Tim Horton
3 Alex Delvecchio
3 John Bucyk
3 Yvan Cournoyer
3 Stan Mikita
3 Bobby Hull
3 Phil Esposito
3 Serge Savard
3 Bobby Clarke
3 Brad Park
3 Gilbert Perreault
3 Denis Potvin
3 Lanny McDonald
3 Bob Gainey
3 Marcel Dionne
3 Larry Robinson
3 Bryan Trottier
3 Peter Stastny
3 Denis Savard
3 Joe Mullen
3 Jari Kurri
3 Mike Gartner
3 Viacheslav Fetisov
3 Grant Fuhr
3 Larry Murphy
3 Paul Coffey
3 Raymond Bourque
3 Patrick Roy
3 Scott Stevens
3 Mark Messier
3 Al MacInnis
3 Ron Francis
3 Steve Yzerman
3 Luc Robitaille
3 Brian Leetch
3 Brett Hull
3 Mats Sundin
3 Joe Sakic
3 Scott Niedermayer
3 Chris Chelios
3 Mike Modano
3 Peter Forsberg
3 Chris Pronger
3 Nicklas Lidstrom
3 Teemu Selanne
3 Martin St. Louis
3 Martin Brodeur
3 Jarome Iginla
3 Marian Hossa
3 Roberto Luongo
3 Henrik Lundqvist
3 Shea Weber




That list of name feel different from the had to wait 9 years or more (it would be easy to guess for someone which was which):
9 Ted Kennedy
9 Ed Giacomin
9 Guy Lapointe
9 Rod Langway
9 Cam Neely
9 Pavel Bure
9 Eric Lindros
10 Bill Mosienko
10 Butch Bouchard
10 Sergei Zubov
11 Dino Ciccarelli
11 Dave Andreychuk
12 Allan Stanley
12 Bernie Federko
12 Glenn Anderson
12 Phil Housley
13 Jacques Laperriere
14 Clark Gillies
15 Jeremy Roenick
16 Leo Boivin
16 Mark Howe
16 Pierre Turgeon
19 Bob Pulford
19 Sergei Makarov
19 Guy Carbonneau
20 Bill Quackenbush
20 Harry Lumley
20 Tom Barrasso
21 Mike Vernon
22 Kevin Lowe
23 Bert Olmstead
27 Doug Wilson
29 Fern Flaman
34 Dick Duff
34 Rogie Vachon
36 Vaclav Nedomansky
37 Harry Watson
38 Edgar Laprade

I.e. there is category/level of HHOF induction and not just you are a HHOF guy or not, otherwise why a waiting system, every year include all the HHOF retired (even if it is 6 of them) and do not create those subclass....

The most surprising name for the had to wait in the recent was maybe Shanahan, but sakic-sundin-oates-bure is year....

Fair enough but aside from diehard hockey nerds like us most people don't look at this and it doesn't really mean anything in the big scheme of things does it?

My bet is that unless one did a deep dive like you did that most people wouldn't remember how many years alot of guys had to wait or were surprised and said he had to wait that long?

Also let's say that the voters do end up "punishing Thornton and AM (assuming his trajectory) and not voting them in, what do they do?

Only vote in the other 3 obvious guys and possibly create a further backlog down the road or elect another guy who really isn't more worthy but has due to some luck a better playoff resume?

I get why some people like doing this, or are open to the idea as there is a heavy emphasis in sports to be the winner at the end of the season but its just not something I can really get behind and say sure lets do this when some of the arguments don't really hold enough strength to do so.

With increasing league size and more guys not getting to the SC and salary caps issues at some point we are going to get a slam dunk HHOFer waiting due to this new arbitrary standard not entirely any players control.