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Prospect Info: 2025 Draft: We are #1….1

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Well, I don't agree with that. So there!

But yeah, Aitcheson...no thanks at 11 or whatever.

He's a "C" prospect for me. Not a guy I'd be interested in the top 3 rounds in any normal draft.
Why is that? I don't want him either as his tools look ordinary and his playing style is very much chasing the play which obviously needs to change for the NHL.
 
This draft must be f***ing abysmal if we're talking about a dude who skates like he's in mud and may have a chronic back injury going between 5 and 10, and a dude like Aitcheson may go around 10-15 but he wouldn't be a 3rd rounder in other drafts. :laugh:

I dunno. I'm losing interest pretty rapidly tbh. :laugh:

Gimme some fireworks. Trade up to get Martone or Hagens and be done with it.
 
Yes, but that's not super unusual for people who make their own lists. If people saw 20 lists from scouts here, they'd probably report the posts to moderators on the Prospects board haha - there's such a weird drive for consensus with this stuff. I got a late start this year because I'm working on other things. I'm making my list the "wrong" way because I know it's impossible for me to watch all the players I need to in time. But whatever, who cares about my nonsense...re: Aitcheson.

Look, I get it. Don't think that I watch this player and go, "wow, everyone is a moron except for me." This could just as easily blow up in my face. And there's actually a shot between the ages of 21 to 24 where I'd be "worried" (as worried one can be about making predictions on an internet message board, heh) that will come to pass. It's gonna be close in the right situation with perfect development.

Anyway...

In short, this is just a stand out junior defenseman. He is armed to the teeth with junior traits, but not a lot of them look like they'll transfer very well. There are some head and shoulder fakes at the attack line - I like them. But his hands and hand speed are really quite unimpressive to me. He skates fine, he looks like a flexible athlete. But then you look at the shot/pass/puck release technique there's weirdly little follow through, there's weirdly little core rotation. You start looking down the list of his actual technical ability and you come away going, "man, he really isn't technically good at very much" - his defense (his interpretation of defense, that is) is entirely skating/stick led, and that's fine now a days, but when push comes to shove, can I trust that you'll really defend?

The answer to that right now, for me, is: I don't trust that. He has physicality but it's not tactical or well timed. Where does he gain inside leverage? Where are there proper box out techniques? He doesn't even withstand contact that he doesn't initiate very well. The hockey sense and mental processing are average at best. Is there a shred of something I can hang on to and think I can build off of it? Outside of angle change shooting and compete, not really. Not enough for my tastes.

The highlights are sweet...it's all the highlight clips you like, right? Big hits, big shots, all that stuff. It's like that alleged "best d-man outside of the NHL" nonsense on that giant ox man that plays for Carolina now...that'll last to Halloween next year before people start to go, "oh man, this is kind of a mess sometimes..."

Now, you're going "well, all D prospects are blah blah blah" and with good coaching "you could boo boo boo" and "he's only 18, so wah wah wah" - I know. By that logic, everyone would pan out every draft, but the reality is most of them don't make it. This player has elements, a chain of very familiar elements to me, that do not work out in the NHL.

Will he play? Yeah, I could see it. He IS on my list. But I just wouldn't be comfortable taking him there. He's on my list in the spot where I'd be comfortable taking him (which is in the middle rounds). That is comfortably in a spot where I know I won't get him. I am comfortable with that.
 
I think Aitcheson is a 1st rounder in any prior draft.

Ben Danford was a 1st rounder. Ryan O’Rourke almost was. Even Pickering. He has more tools than those guys.
 
I like Danford way more than Aitcheson (he actually plays like a NHL defender) but thought he was taken too early

idc about points for D tbh and if I do it’s not the way Aitcheson gets them
 
The difference between the two bolded things feels minimal at best.

The issue there is that scouts also think that O’Brien has the best hockey sense of this class.

It’s not about him not thinking the game fast enough, it’s about him not playing with a high enough pace of play. I think it’s a play style thing more than anything.
 
Seen more and more talk and mocks have us taking Aitcheson. He's my "please don't" this year.

Oldest in draft, questionable hockey sense, gets his point I'm a way that won't work at higher level.. hard pass
 
It'll be interesting to see how pervasive the Florida effect wil be. Martin's already seeing a huge bump as a Bennett type.

I wonder if Mrtka sees a similar bump as a Mikkola type.

I don’t think there’s any way Martin makes it past #6 at Philly. It would be hilarious to see Nashville take him at #5, they need a high end offensive center so badly but taking Martin seems like a Trotz kind of move. I’ve also seen Martin to Utah discussed a bunch, I’ve flipped around between Martin, Desnoyers and Martone to Utah. I can see all of them making sense.

All of that said, Martin is going to get wildly overdrafted this year. I really like Martin, but I’m so glad it won’t be the Penguins using a top-5 pick on him. The fact that he’s going to be a top-5 pick just shows how shitty the draft is. He’s a fringe top-10 guy in a normal draft, or he at least should be.
 
I don’t think there’s any way Martin makes it past #6 at Philly. It would be hilarious to see Nashville take him at #5, they need a high end offensive center so badly but taking Martin seems like a Trotz kind of move. I’ve also seen Martin to Utah discussed a bunch, I’ve flipped around between Martin, Desnoyers and Martone to Utah. I can see all of them making sense.

All of that said, Martin is going to get wildly overdrafted this year. I really like Martin, but I’m so glad it won’t be the Penguins using a top-5 pick on him. The fact that he’s going to be a top-5 pick just shows how shitty the draft is. He’s a fringe top-10 guy in a normal draft, or he at least should be.
i like martin too, but his rise is based on a small sample size. imo he could very wel be worth it but....... :dunno:
 
Curious what you bunch think about Justin Carbonneau? Don't think he's anyone we'd take as high as 11, (curious since when I googled him a few days ago his AI run-down said he played for the Pittsburgh Penguins) but kind of an interesting player and arguable the least discussed of the top-20ish prospect this draft.

Big bodied, right handed winger. Shoots the puck extremely well, skates powerfully but isn't very "quick". Good, not great, edge work. Good hands and vision, and can make a pass. Hits and plays decently physical, has some big defensive lapses and some floater/watching moments, but mostly only on D.

2nd in the Q in scoring this year with a line of 46 G 43 A for 89 points in 62 GP
 
Curious what you bunch think about Justin Carbonneau? Don't think he's anyone we'd take as high as 11, (curious since when I googled him a few days ago his AI run-down said he played for the Pittsburgh Penguins) but kind of an interesting player and arguable the least discussed of the top-20ish prospect this draft.

Big bodied, right handed winger. Shoots the puck extremely well, skates powerfully but isn't very "quick". Good, not great, edge work. Good hands and vision, and can make a pass. Hits and plays decently physical, has some big defensive lapses and some floater/watching moments, but mostly only on D.

2nd in the Q in scoring this year with a line of 46 G 43 A for 89 points in 62 GP
It's important not to just look at player types, and I've never seen the kid play, but his description and production look a lot like Nathan Legare.

The Q's kind of dubious so unless a player coming out of there has a lot of tools like Desnoyers that's a pretty tough sell in the 1st half of the 1st round.
 
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@Michael Farkas also hates all prospects so you just have to take that into consideration.

It's a realistic view he provides, but a dark, depressing one.
I don't know about that haha

Just because I view every prospect as an inevitable failure waiting to painfully unfold simultaneously before us, but also behind us with the same common yet unconscionable release of death...figuratively speaking, of course. Somehow, I'm "dark" and "depressing"...? Ok, Mr. Perky...
 
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Hey, if teams want to pass on higher-upside centers in order to draft Martin, by all means.

If the "Florida effect" is the reason for us being able to land someone like O'Brien or Frondell or Hagens, then Let's Go Cats!
Yeah, no problems with that but then I watch the SCF and see Sam Bennett making a strong case for the Conn Smythe.

Fact is, you need a bit of everyone. Florida wouldn't be where they are without Barkov so...just takes time to collect the talent.

@Michael Farkas also hates all prospects so you just have to take that into consideration.

It's a realistic view he provides, but a dark, depressing one.
Is he a source of your inspiration?
 
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I hope it's a fun draft to watch at least. I'm starting to care less and less about who the Pens end up with (due in large part to being connected to Mrtka and McQueen) but there's a lot of talk that the Hawks really want to trade up to the top of the board, the Sabres are open for business as far as roster players and the 9th overall go, and there's always the whole Isles/Hagens thing.
 
@Michael Farkas also hates all prospects so you just have to take that into consideration.

It's a realistic view he provides, but a dark, depressing one.
But it is a realistic expectation. A massive percentage of prospects do fail. IIRC, Button said on average only 40 draftees play 300+ games in the NHL and how many of those 40 end up being positive value to the org. that drafted them? I bet at least 5-10 of them are nothing more than career mediocre depth players and/or never develop with the initial org. that drafted them. Outside of really great drafts like 2003 and 2015, most 1st rounders are busts that disappoint relative to their draft position.
 
Tbh I think Aitcheson most likely ends up a Xhekaj type of bottom pair tough guy DFD, but that’s the risk with basically any player you draft. The most likely outcome is that they either bust or just end up a depth guy, I think Aitcheson is no different.

That said, I think a bottom pair Xhekaj type of defenseman does have value around the league. It’s just a #5/6 tough guy DFD is a hell of a lot more common than a top-4 version of that.
 
I wish we had a guy like Xhekaj in the system, tbqh. I don't think Aitcheson is necessarily that guy or that you want to take a guy like that in the 1st anyway, but I'd like us to add some physicality and toughness in the draft.
 
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