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Prospect Info: 2025 Draft: We are #1….1

While I agree about the substandard size, he could be with top players on the Pens.

Using a later 1st round pick is okay in this premise. It's just another building block.

Trust me, I'm not a fan of Rossi, but what are the better uses for that pick? The Pens have their own picks to add substantial future players.
 
Randy Butternubs said:
Re this 2026 NYR 1st for Rossi proposal

I think I'd only trade it for Rossi if the 2026 NYR 1st is "bottom 16" protected (aka the Pens get two 1sts in 2026). Deferred to the 2027 Pens 1st.

Though I'd keep those same conditions and would ask around the NHL to see if there's better value than Rossi.
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This is pretty similar to what I'd advocate for. I'd top-10 protect both picks and just give up the 2027 Pens 1st if they both end up top-10.
 
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Randy Butternubs said:
Re this 2026 NYR 1st for Rossi proposal

I think I'd only trade it for Rossi if the 2026 NYR 1st is "bottom 16" protected (aka the Pens get two 1sts in 2026). Deferred to the 2027 Pens 1st.

Though I'd keep those same conditions and would ask around the NHL to see if there's better value than Rossi.
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Yes see now THAT is reasonable.

Saying "yeah I'd trade a top ten pick in 2026 for Marco Rossi right NOW wanna fight about it?" is not.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt said:
Yes see now THAT is reasonable.

Saying "yeah I'd trade a top ten pick in 2026 for Marco Rossi right NOW wanna fight about it?" is not.
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I think we're kinda splitting hairs over a small difference in pick spots here :laugh:

I'd top-10 protect the pick in that hypothetical trade, but if the pick is #8-#10, I'd still consider it as an option to trade for Rossi. Anything after #10 and I think it's pretty clearly a good call. Anything before #8, I'd keep the pick and take my chances on the 2027 Penguins pick either being a worse pick or having a worse prospect.

I just strongly disagree that a top-10 pick has a "good chance" of being a better player than Rossi. Top-5? Sure, definitely true. But top-10? There are a ton of guys who don't even pan out as effective NHLers who are taken around #9 overall. Rossi himself was a #9 pick, taken right after Drysdale, Holtz and Quinn and before Perfetti, Askarov and Lundell in 2020. Not exactly an inspiring group there.
 
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Again, trading the pick is fine. I just don't think very highly of Rossi at all. /shrug

Wait and see if someone from Buffalo becomes available like Peterka or Power or something. It'll cost a lot more, but that's fine. Those are guys actually worth investing in. I don't feel the same about Rossi, the little engine that could. :laugh:
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I think we're kinda splitting hairs over a small difference in pick spots here :laugh:

I'd top-10 protect the pick in that hypothetical trade, but if the pick is #8-#10, I'd still consider it as an option to trade for Rossi. Anything after #10 and I think it's pretty clearly a good call. Anything before #8, I'd keep the pick and take my chances on the 2027 Penguins pick either being a worse pick or having a worse prospect.

I just strongly disagree that a top-10 pick has a "good chance" of being a better player than Rossi. Top-5? Sure, definitely true. But top-10? There are a ton of guys who don't even pan out as effective NHLers who are taken around #9 overall.
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Eh we just disagree on value.

I'm hardly all pumped up about NHL first round picks past say like 15ish. But they are still a little more valuable than THAT by my estimation.

I just don't have Rossi's value quite where you do... it's all good. If we're talking more in the 20 range then I'm game. But to me regardless of the REALITY of NHL draft pick percentage chances... league GMs still place PERCEIVED value on first round picks and to me the market says a ~50 point center with some possible risk is worth a late first and you are probably even making sure you get your guy with that payment.
 
I think we can debate the merits of Rossi and whether they should trade a lot of value for him, but the main point of my original post was I think it's a huge mistake to refuse to trade that pick because you want an extra shot at McKenna. The chances for that to actually happen are really slim, and you can add lottery protection to the pick to protect in case it happens. I just don't think "we want extra ammo to go after McKenna" is a legit reason to not trade the pick for a good young player if you can get it.

I'm not trading that pick for the first halfway decent young guy I can get, but I'd absolutely shop it and pull the trigger if you can get a good young player you like. There is just such a high level of risk with draft picks, even ones in great drafts, that I can't agree with saying no to trading it for a quality young player you'll have for a long time. It's just a question of what "quality" means to you. To Jim Rutherford, that was trading #15 overall for Kapanen, and I think 99% of people would like to aim much higher than that.
 
The thing is... nearly every draft has some guy right around the middle like say Jarvis (13th overall) who breaks out and turns into a great NHLer at that slot. Removing the last five drafts due to being still somewhat incomplete and taking the five drafts prior to THAT... Boldy at 12, Caufield at 15, Necas at 12, Thomas at 20, friggin Tage at 26th. Just at a quick glance.

My point is that every GM thinks they are going to draft the next Tage and those picks DO hold value at least in their eyes and that's all that matters. Are they going to? f***in' probably not, no. But that's not what THEY think.
 
There's 42 centers in the league who scored between 40 and 60 points. Rossi is nothing. :laugh:

Maybe he breaks out, but I don't think it'll be here, playing with like McG and Rakell as opposed to Kaprizov or Boldy.
 
Giving up a 1st rounder in each of the next 3-4 drafts is a bad idea unless there's real strict protections. Even if we'd draft a world beater or two it'd take years before we'd be relevant again unless the line up is significantly augmented via trade or Free agency. Draft and develop effectively is 90% of the ball game here. Maximizing our older assets via trade is the other 10%. Keep those 1sts and make em count unless it's a silly good offer.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
No it doesn't? Even in the best drafts, top-10 picks regularly do not end up panning out. That's a ridiculous thing to suggest that a top-10 pick has a "good chance" to be more valuable than an already young top-6 center.

You're lucky if a #8 or so pick ends up even panning out to be a good player.
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2015 draft top 10: McDavid, Eichel, Strome, Marner, Hanifin, Zacha, Provorov, Werenski, Meier, Rantanen. Zacha is the only one GMs would definitely take Rossi.
 
Marco Rossi has scored 45 goals and had 55 assists in his first two seasons in the NHL.

The only center of note in the Penguins' pipeline is Tristan Broz. Broz's absolute ceiling is probably Rossi's current production, and Broz is only a year younger than Rossi.

This isn't that hard. Unless the price is astronomical, you add Rossi.
 
Unless we're talking E. Pettersson, where I would do a lot to get him here, there's not a lot of other options better for what the Pens need considering the C position is the overall need for now + future.

After the draft, like, I would do their (Vancouver) pick of 1 of the 2 - 2026 Pens/(NYR's) 1sts (top 5 protected and they get whichever isn't top 5, or if both are top 5 or not top 5, then the lesser of the two picks), 2027 1st (top 5 protected, reverts to 2028), Novak, Ponomarev and Lucius

Pens take on E. Pettersson at full cap hit.

Vancouver is selling low on E.P.



Rakell, Crosby, Rust
Koivunen, Pettersson, Malkin
Hallander, Suter, McGroarty<--- Sign Pius Suter for 3C
Heinen, Lizotte, Tomasino
Dewer
 
Empoleon8771 said:
No it doesn't? Even in the best drafts, top-10 picks regularly do not end up panning out. That's a ridiculous thing to suggest that a top-10 pick has a "good chance" to be more valuable than an already young top-6 center.

You're lucky if a #8 or so pick ends up even panning out to be a good player.

The 2015 draft is also the best draft of all time most likely. Not exactly a reasonable standard to put on the 2026 draft, even though it is looking very strong.
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I'm just using the standard you set. 2026 draft is at least shaping up to be much stronger than average in the top half of the draft so no reason a team like Pittsburgh should be looking to move either 1st without protection at least.
 
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