Prospect Info: 2025 Draft: We are #1….1

Pronman dropped a new mock draft that had the Penguins taking Aitcheson at #11, passing on Eklund. Entire top-15 was:

1. Schaefer
2. Misa
3. Frondell
4. Martone
5. Hagens
6. Desnoyers
7. O’Brien
8. Martin
9. Mrtka
10. McQueen
11. Aitcheson
12. Cootes
13. Eklund
14. Reid
15. Reschny
 
I did a quick 2:00 video on West Mifflin's LJ Mooney from the U18's. Only 5'7, and that's a massive hurdle, but man, this kid can dangle the puck. Unreal vision, too. Haven't really seen his size adversely affect him yet.
at 5-7 it's not all bad. I hated to play against short stocky guys. they can easily get under you and that makes it easier to pick you up and move you anywhere they want, and very hard to check because they can easily duck and you end up going right over the top of them. plus, you also need to be very careful when checking them because your elbows & stick are right at their head height. and you'll end up in the box. :laugh:
 
@Jesse while you're here, I saw you mentioned you were going to release a comprehensive list for who you like at #11. It seemed like you really like Aitcheson, what stands out with him? I'm personally a bit iffy on his puck skills and how well his offense will translate to the NHL, do you not think those are major concerns?

26 goals out of a defenseman in any juniors is insane, but it seems like that goal scoring ability probably won't translate to the NHL. That said, he seems like a decently likely pick for the Penguins that fills a huge organizational need.
 
@Jesse while you're here, I saw you mentioned you were going to release a comprehensive list for who you like at #11. It seemed like you really like Aitcheson, what stands out with him? I'm personally a bit iffy on his puck skills and how well his offense will translate to the NHL, do you not think those are major concerns?

26 goals out of a defenseman in any juniors is insane, but it seems like that goal scoring ability probably won't translate to the NHL. That said, he seems like a decently likely pick for the Penguins that fills a huge organizational need.
and you will need to narrow it down to about 20 players, because from what i can tell they have players ranked all over the place
 
Pronman dropped a new mock draft that had the Penguins taking Aitcheson at #11, passing on Eklund. Entire top-15 was:

1. Schaefer
2. Misa
3. Frondell
4. Martone
5. Hagens
6. Desnoyers
7. O’Brien
8. Martin
9. Mrtka
10. McQueen
11. Aitcheson
12. Cootes
13. Eklund
14. Reid
15. Reschny
I've noticed a good number of mocks having the Pens taking a D-man even when the Pens were *looking* to be picking higher, and I don't like it.

That D-man isn't coming in and changing this defense next season, or the next. So, I think Dubas fixes that LD problem via trade or UFA.
 
@Jesse while you're here, I saw you mentioned you were going to release a comprehensive list for who you like at #11. It seemed like you really like Aitcheson, what stands out with him? I'm personally a bit iffy on his puck skills and how well his offense will translate to the NHL, do you not think those are major concerns?

26 goals out of a defenseman in any juniors is insane, but it seems like that goal scoring ability probably won't translate to the NHL. That said, he seems like a decently likely pick for the Penguins that fills a huge organizational need.

My list is gonna be out soon. I'm launching a little bit of a project along with it. Really excited to share.

My big concern with Aitcheson is his skating. It's really my only concern. It's a little bit too long in the stride at times and while he generates a lot of power that way it makes it really hard for him to take off in specific situations.

I do not think he has the puck skill of a bonafide elite offensive defenseman, but I think his bucket of skill is good enough to keep up with his desire to be involved offensively, which is extraordinary. He's jumping into the rush, he's using what skill he does have to create good zone entries, and in the offensive zone, he's moving around constantly. Sneaking in the back door, looping in and out of the circles, he understands how to be a functional participant offensively.

Now, flip the script to the other side of the ice. He is definitely overzealous with trying to kill people in the defensive zone. I don't think it's been detrimental to Barrie's success, but it happens. Gonna require coaching up to pick his spots better. That being said, I think he keeps an excellent gap. His pivot and ability to quickly react to changes in both tempo and play direction and pristine. I think he follows the law of stick-length on gap control really well. Across the entire CHL he was in the 90+ percentile for zone entry denial. I've seen people question his gap length, not something I've ever really felt concerned with.

In-zone, he's good. Gets in front of a lot of shots. Cleans up his area defensively super well. But it's puck retrieval work I love from him. He makes smart decisions. You'll see him use the Murphy Dump a lot to spring his forward colleagues with little area-dumps that are positioned perfectly for them. He knows when to skate and when to peel off and wait for help. He makes himself available to his partner for emergency exits really well.

Again, I don't view him as a top pairing guy. I think his ceiling is a really solid, two-way number four that you can deploy in almost any situation regardless of circumstance. If he doesn't hit that, it'll be because he lacks a half extra gear. That's my big issue.

At the end of the day, if you take a look at the defensemen in this class beyond Schaefer, and ask the question of who impacts their games the most? It's Aitcheson for me. Easy. He's doing it across three zones. You see him changing games from sets of work in the OZ, NZ, and DZ. I do not see another defenseman beyond Schaefer who is consistently doing that.
 
I did a quick 2:00 video on West Mifflin's LJ Mooney from the U18's. Only 5'7, and that's a massive hurdle, but man, this kid can dangle the puck. Unreal vision, too. Haven't really seen his size adversely affect him yet.


I think he’s a fun Mac Swanson type bet in the 6th or 7th. I wouldn’t go much earlier than that.
 
On Aitcheson —if you took him 11th last season are you happy with his year this season? I’d say eh.

I can understand the appeal but to me this is a 3rd year OHL d-man without high end tools or elite defensive ability that shot 16%. He has to totally change his game in the pros and can’t play like a 4th forward.

I would rather “reach” for Fiddler, Hensler, Boumedienne than take Aitcheson.
 
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On Aitcheson —if you took him 11th last season are you happy with his year this season? I’d say eh.

I can understand the appeal but to me this is a 3rd year OHL d-man without high end tools or elite defensive ability that shot 16%. He has to totally change his game in the pros and can’t play like a 4th forward.

I would rather “reach” for Fiddler, Hensler, Boumedienne than take Aitcheson.

I agree with this, but at least based on Jesse's writeup, I think the tools are still there that you can refine his game and still have him be an effective player offensively. He's flat out not going to be the overzealous goal scorer he is in juniors in the NHL, but knowing where to go in the offensive zone and knowing when to join the rush are definitely big positives that should still provide value even if his offensive game is reigned in.

His pro comparable is Trouba and Jesse's write-up really enforces that. If he can be a good defensive player that offers a ton of physicality and at least modest offense (think 8-10 goals and 35-40 points a season), that's a very good middle pair defenseman IMO.
 
On Aitcheson —if you took him 11th last season are you happy with his year this season? I’d say eh.

I can understand the appeal but to me this is a 3rd year OHL d-man without high end tools or elite defensive ability that shot 16%. He has to totally change his game in the pros and can’t play like a 4th forward.

I would rather “reach” for Fiddler, Hensler than take Aitcheson.

Hensler just isn't a first round talent in my book. I feel like a bunch people put him mid-teens to start the year and he just persisted there despite never really showing any reason why he shouldn't slide. He was a passenger all year long. Every time I watch him I sit there wondering what it is that I am missing. He doesn't take chances offensively, he doesn't sneak into the play, I don't think he's aggressive in any sense of the word to the point watching him is kind've a frustrating experience for me. Defensively it's just sort of the same. From an impact perspective I can't place what it is people see in him besides potential. And I am not crazy on using a first round pick under the assumption a guy is just going to figure it out along the way and suddenly decide he wants to participate in rushes, etc. From a data perspective, his NHLe is 10.2 That's the lowest total of any player inside the top 62.
 
We're in such a gray area with where we are picking and the void of any real consensus anywhere from like pick 6 to pick 25 that I've stopped "hoping for" or liking any player and have just started a list of guys I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole/pray we dont reach on and then just accept whoever we do get if its not one of those guys.

Realistically, at 11 I don't even dislike McQueen that much anymore unless there's an egregious pass on someone to pick him.

Don't want Cameron Schmidt anywhere near our draft table for any reason.

Also really dont want any reaches on Fiddler, Cootes, or Reid.

Finally, of the guys that are ranked where we are picking, I don't love Jackson Smith.

Otherwise, bring on the draft picks and leave me with a big bottle of copium.
 
My list is gonna be out soon. I'm launching a little bit of a project along with it. Really excited to share.

My big concern with Aitcheson is his skating. It's really my only concern. It's a little bit too long in the stride at times and while he generates a lot of power that way it makes it really hard for him to take off in specific situations.

I do not think he has the puck skill of a bonafide elite offensive defenseman, but I think his bucket of skill is good enough to keep up with his desire to be involved offensively, which is extraordinary. He's jumping into the rush, he's using what skill he does have to create good zone entries, and in the offensive zone, he's moving around constantly. Sneaking in the back door, looping in and out of the circles, he understands how to be a functional participant offensively.

Now, flip the script to the other side of the ice. He is definitely overzealous with trying to kill people in the defensive zone. I don't think it's been detrimental to Barrie's success, but it happens. Gonna require coaching up to pick his spots better. That being said, I think he keeps an excellent gap. His pivot and ability to quickly react to changes in both tempo and play direction and pristine. I think he follows the law of stick-length on gap control really well. Across the entire CHL he was in the 90+ percentile for zone entry denial. I've seen people question his gap length, not something I've ever really felt concerned with.

In-zone, he's good. Gets in front of a lot of shots. Cleans up his area defensively super well. But it's puck retrieval work I love from him. He makes smart decisions. You'll see him use the Murphy Dump a lot to spring his forward colleagues with little area-dumps that are positioned perfectly for them. He knows when to skate and when to peel off and wait for help. He makes himself available to his partner for emergency exits really well.

Again, I don't view him as a top pairing guy. I think his ceiling is a really solid, two-way number four that you can deploy in almost any situation regardless of circumstance. If he doesn't hit that, it'll be because he lacks a half extra gear. That's my big issue.

At the end of the day, if you take a look at the defensemen in this class beyond Schaefer, and ask the question of who impacts their games the most? It's Aitcheson for me. Easy. He's doing it across three zones. You see him changing games from sets of work in the OZ, NZ, and DZ. I do not see another defenseman beyond Schaefer who is consistently doing that.

I’m hesitant to take any skater anymore (because we have so many) where “skating” is a weakness…it’s hard to improve that a lot…why do you like him over Smith for example, another 2nd tier D man expected to go in round one?
 
Hensler just isn't a first round talent in my book. I feel like a bunch people put him mid-teens to start the year and he just persisted there despite never really showing any reason why he shouldn't slide. He was a passenger all year long. Every time I watch him I sit there wondering what it is that I am missing. He doesn't take chances offensively, he doesn't sneak into the play, I don't think he's aggressive in any sense of the word to the point watching him is kind've a frustrating experience for me. Defensively it's just sort of the same. From an impact perspective I can't place what it is people see in him besides potential. And I am not crazy on using a first round pick under the assumption a guy is just going to figure it out along the way and suddenly decide he wants to participate in rushes, etc. From a data perspective, his NHLe is 10.2 That's the lowest total of any player inside the top 62.
To clairfy, NHLe is expected points over a season and not expected probability to become an NHLer, correct? I don't dabble much on draft ranking sites.

Makes sense for expected points, but not so much for expected probability to become an NHLer because he's about as sure thing as there is to eventually get in NHL games in his range. Thing is, I feel its at about a 90% chance it's in a #4-5 complimentary d-man role with limited offensive upside and the on-ice flair of a dead Tennessee catfish. Although once in every 4 blue moons, I have seen him flash the skill and offensive poise that people seem to think he's going to start consistently bringing to the table.
 
I’m hesitant to take any skater anymore (because we have so many) where “skating” is a weakness…it’s hard to improve that a lot…why do you like him over Smith for example, another 2nd tier D man expected to go in round one?

Because Smith seems to not really offer much beyond being a good skater, while Aitcheson offers a ton despite not being a great skater.

Smith looks like Matheson 2.0. Boumedienne seems similar as well.
 
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I agree with this, but at least based on Jesse's writeup, I think the tools are still there that you can refine his game and still have him be an effective player offensively. He's flat out not going to be the overzealous goal scorer he is in juniors in the NHL, but knowing where to go in the offensive zone and knowing when to join the rush are definitely big positives that should still provide value even if his offensive game is reigned in.

His pro comparable is Trouba and Jesse's write-up really enforces that. If he can be a good defensive player that offers a ton of physicality and at least modest offense (think 8-10 goals and 35-40 points a season), that's a very good middle pair defenseman IMO.
First paragraph- If he was a super athlete sure. He’s not. As a result i fear its not just “hey rein it in buddy stop playing pond hockey” and he can flip the switch— it’s that he gives up space because he’s not a good skater. He floats around the ozone because he’s not a good passer and needs to play to his shot. So then it’s all these little tweaks and changes that add up to completely changing how he plays rn. I just get very skittish when I see prospects that don’t have a “simple” or “straightforward” development path. Doubly so without big time tools.

Second paragraph— I think the problem is Trouba is bigger and a better skater - and at his peak (not now) better defensively too. I see Aitcheson like a smaller Chiarot- score some goals, hit some dudes, not be the most reliable at any one thing.
Hensler just isn't a first round talent in my book. I feel like a bunch people put him mid-teens to start the year and he just persisted there despite never really showing any reason why he shouldn't slide. He was a passenger all year long. Every time I watch him I sit there wondering what it is that I am missing. He doesn't take chances offensively, he doesn't sneak into the play, I don't think he's aggressive in any sense of the word to the point watching him is kind've a frustrating experience for me. Defensively it's just sort of the same. From an impact perspective I can't place what it is people see in him besides potential. And I am not crazy on using a first round pick under the assumption a guy is just going to figure it out along the way and suddenly decide he wants to participate in rushes, etc. From a data perspective, his NHLe is 10.2 That's the lowest total of any player inside the top 62.
Honestly agree with the play style assessment I just think Hensler is elite in the one tool you want- feet- plus compared to Aitcheson he’s bigger and played a more projectable NHL style at a higher level. I don’t think it’s a bad thing for d-men to be “quiet”.

I’m not saying I love him- but I view him in a similar range to Aitcheson and prefer Hensler to Aitcheson. I think if he hits his upside he projects to handle an NHL forecheck better and transition the puck better as well as having more defensive upside because of his feet.
 
Anyway if the mock goes like that- Just don’t try to get cute and take Eklund.

I’m pretty confident you’re getting something in the range of Freddy Gaudreau on the wing to Seth Jarvis. We just need talent right now.
 
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First paragraph- If he was a super athlete sure. He’s not. As a result i fear its not just “hey rein it in buddy stop playing pond hockey” and he can flip the switch— it’s that he gives up space because he’s not a good skater. He floats around the ozone because he’s not a good passer and needs to play to his shot. So then it’s all these little tweaks and changes that add up to completely changing how he plays rn. I just get very skittish when I see prospects that don’t have a “simple” or “straightforward” development path. Doubly so without big time tools.

Second paragraph— I think the problem is Trouba is bigger and a better skater - and at his peak (not now) better defensively too. I see Aitcheson like a smaller Chiarot- score some goals, hit some dudes, not be the most reliable at any one thing.

Doesn't Aitcheson project to be good defensively as well? Jesse mentioned that he's 90th percentile in zone entry denial plus he looks good at maintaining gaps in the videos he has seen.

I don't disagree with the Chiarot comparison, I think Aitcheson's upside is likely not as high as Trouba (or at least what Trouba was). But a #3/4 version of Trouba or Chiarot seems like a pretty reasonable projection for Aitcheson. I think we mostly agree, outside of me thinking that Aitcheson projects to be a bit better defensively than what you think.

Smith makes Mike Matheson look like prime Dumo IMO :laugh: :laugh:

Dude is a pond hockey player right now. Could be a good or bad thing depending on how you view it.

Yeah that's what I meant when I made the comparison, the dude is simply entirely carried by his elite skating but has no idea how to actually play within a system. He's another guy with elite tools that you can easily see how he can turn into a very good player, but the same exact thing was said about Matheson who has pretty much not developed at all since coming into the NHL.
 
Doesn't Aitcheson project to be good defensively as well? Jesse mentioned that he's 90th percentile in zone entry denial plus he looks good at maintaining gaps in the videos he has seen.

I don't disagree with the Chiarot comparison, I think Aitcheson's upside is likely not as high as Trouba (or at least what Trouba was). But a #3/4 version of Trouba or Chiarot seems like a pretty reasonable projection for Aitcheson. I think we mostly agree, outside of me thinking that Aitcheson projects to be a bit better defensively than what you think.
I saw the note on the zone entries- that’s good. I think he gives up space/room defending against the cycle and goes to the ice too much against rushes- makes me think he is scared to really challenge guys at speed. Maybe scared is wrong word.

But watch Ben Danford defend the blue line or a rush or the cycle- then watch Aitcheson. Night and day to me.
 
All of that said, I'm still on Eklund at #11 if he's there but the comments here have definitely warmed me up in Aitcheson. I think it's important to keep reminding myself that this part of building up the prospect pool is acquiring the Orpiks, Armstrongs and Malones that will support the next franchise players, rather than getting the actual franchise players. Someone like Aitcheson ideally develops into a good middle pair D to give them a strong 2nd pair of Aitcheson-Brunicke, but you're not realistically getting a gamechanger defenseman out of him. Same thing with any other forward or defenseman you'd take in the spot.

I still have preferences but I think I'm starting to grow more and more indifferent on who they take outside of anyone projected in the 11-16 range. There really isn't going to be a huge difference between any of Aitcheson, Reschny, Bear, Kindel, Lakovic or anyone else they could take. They all have their own pros and issues they need to work out.
 
Because Smith seems to not really offer much beyond being a good skater, while Aitcheson offers a ton despite not being a great skater.

Smith looks like Matheson 2.0. Boumedienne seems similar as well.

I think my point is that all these guys after Schaefer have warts and question marks and are likely long term projects…I wouldn’t take any of the D men at #11 … trade down if you want one and, if they’re all projects w warts, take the guy with the most tools and highest upside…I don’t think that’s Aitcheson…imo
 
Anyway if the mock goes like that- Just don’t try to get cute and take Eklund.

I’m pretty confident you’re getting something in the range of Freddy Gaudreau on the wing to Seth Jarvis. We just need talent right now.

Wait, are you saying don't take Eklund or take Eklund? I'm confused if you think Eklund is the trying to get cute pick or not.
 
Wait, are you saying don't take Eklund or take Eklund? I'm confused if you think Eklund is the trying to get cute pick or not.
Take him- not cute

He’s my 5th ranked player. I think he’s a weaker 5th (for instance if he was in his brothers draft he’d be in the 10-15 range imo) but I think he’s as close to surefire NHLer as there is. And still has top line upside.
 
Yea save your defense picks for the later rounds where you take NCAA dmen. Collect Dumoulins and Sambergs and Slavins there. Dont blow your picks on CHL defensemen who haven’t learned how to play defense yet. We’ve seen enough of that for a while still.

Honestly I like this strategy. The CHL has been dogshit at developing defensemen for a long time, I'm totally good with targeting college/USNTDP defensemen who will spend 3 or so years in college before turning pro.
 
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