Prospect Info: 2025 Draft discussion

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd rather we not use the best pick the team's had in decades on a guy whose ceiling is Sean Couturier clone. Or a guy whose only attribute is "big" and comes with a buncha red flags about how bad his skating sucks shit. The problem is that's arguably the best player available after the top-4 are gone in this draft.

That's why it's really important to sell off guys like Petts and Rakell and Bunting to lose your way into a Hagens, Martone, Misa, or Schaefer.

I dunno. Hoping they lose and settle into a top-5 pick, and someone makes a reach and the Pens end up with one of the aforementioned four. The real drafts to keep an eye on are the 2026 and 2027 ones, and hopefully this team's outright dreadful by then. I'm talkin' putrid, cuz people have been hyping up McKenna and Dupont for years as franchise pillar type picks.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd rather we not use the best pick the team's had in decades on a guy whose ceiling is Sean Couturier clone. Or a guy whose only attribute is "big" and comes with a buncha red flags about how bad his skating sucks shit. The problem is that's arguably the best player available after the top-4 are gone in this draft.

That's why it's really important to sell off guys like Petts and Rakell and Bunting to lose your way into a Hagens, Martone, Misa, or Schaefer.

I dunno. Hoping they lose and settle into a top-5 pick, and someone makes a reach and the Pens end up with one of the aforementioned four. The real drafts to keep an eye on are the 2026 and 2027 ones, and hopefully this team's outright dreadful by then. I'm talkin' putrid, cuz people have been hyping up McKenna and Dupont for years as franchise pillar type picks.

I mean, getting multiple first round picks and taking slight fliers on guys who have attributes you like isn't the worst idea in the world. The problem is, as you pointed out, the kind of attributes we seem to prize with this coaching regime. And yes, that is a real worry.

But, as much as it pains me to say it, Dubas has had only had one draft here, so I'm holding out hope he's not as incompetent there as he is with UFAs and trades, but I'm still skeptical that he's got the right kind of vision for the team. I hear he was okay in Toronto, but f*** if I give a shit about another club, especially Toronto.

 

[BobCole]

Man we're spoiled.

I wish more people here would understand that this team is going to be capital B BAD for a long, long time. That's the price you pay for two decades of great hockey and 3 Stanley Cups. Most teams don't even have Cups to show for their competitive periods, either.

We have no option but to try to horde draft picks and see if we strike gold with any, but the reality is that we're exceedingly unlikely to draft a "franchise" player any time soon.

It's over. The ride was great. Don't count on this team reemerging as a contender any time in the near or even medium-term future.

 

[HandshakeLine]

We most likely won't win anything for the next several decades, if ever again. But again, I don't really care about that. I care about us icing an exciting, interesting, fun hockey team. The Cups are the icing on the cake, but what I miss is having fun watching this team. I don't think we've been able to say that since 2018.

And that's what I have no faith in this organization fixing because it comes from the top down, from the owners to PoHO/GM, to coaches, to developmental and drafting philosophies.

 

[Gurglesons]

It all depends on the context of the team though. We are not going to need that kind of complete guy for a long, long time. If we're serious about a rebuild, we shouldn't really be aiming for those kinds of players, even though that is what scouts and GMs prefer because they're scared of being wrong.

Like sure, McG might come in and become a slower top 9 guy, which we have loads of. But he's not really great at anything, he's decent at a lot of things, is a good teammate, and has intangibles or whatever, at least from what I've seen through WB/S highlights (again, I make no claims of expertise unlike some). But it's like getting excited about Pascal Dupuis-- I know it's an accomplishment, we can only dream a pick gets to play in the NHL as much as that lunatic did, whatever.

But, I'll be honest, I don't give a shit. I can't get excited about a 40 point guy who plays the game the right way to mediocre results anymore. I'm happy for them, they're living their dream, whatever. It's boring for me to watch, and as a consumer, it's a subpar product. I give a shit if the team is exciting to watch. That is it. I do not want to watch the second coming of the trap-era Devils, I do not want to watch the Detroit Red Wings circa 2008-2009. I think people who do have terrible taste and should be ashamed of themselves for being basic ass bitches.

I guess my thing is with the limitations of our pool I’d rather they take safe picks until they are absolutely out of it.

If we are picking 20th, totally different story. But like tbh. We took Poulin over McMichael. I’d argue that was skill over safety.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I guess my thing is with the limitations of our pool I’d rather they take safe picks until they are absolutely out of it.

If we are picking 20th, totally different story. But like tbh. We took Poulin over McMichael. I’d argue that was skill over safety.

I still maintain you can get those kind of guys anyway-- you have enough picks, some of them are going to pan out and most of them aren't going to reach the kind of ceiling they were projected to have. They're going to become safe, reliable, NHLers because they have to, in order to survive. Plus you can grab them on the waiver wire or for a song every season.

Anyhow, good thing we got those 4th round picks in 2027 to replenish the pool.

 

[sauce66871]

Just thinking of the Jake trade last year, and how it was quantity over quality… would anyone be surprised/irritated, if the Pens ended where they’re at, a top 8 pick, and then traded back with a team that has two later first picks? Montreal, Calgary and Nashville all come to mind.

Just wondering how ending up with a Kashawn Aitcheson and William Moore type haul would feel over an Anton Frondell pick, or something similar?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Just thinking of the Jake trade last year, and how it was quantity over quality… would anyone be surprised/irritated, if the Pens ended where they’re at, a top 8 pick, and then traded back with a team that has two later first picks? Montreal, Calgary and Nashville all come to mind.

Just wondering how ending up with a Kashawn Aitcheson and William Moore type haul would feel over an Anton Frondell pick, or something similar?

I wouldn't mind trading down in this year's draft at all, but again, I haven't been following it as closely as some. But everything people have said about it is that after the top 5 or so, it's all a wash, so why not?

 

[Gurglesons]

Just thinking of the Jake trade last year, and how it was quantity over quality… would anyone be surprised/irritated, if the Pens ended where they’re at, a top 8 pick, and then traded back with a team that has two later first picks? Montreal, Calgary and Nashville all come to mind.

Just wondering how ending up with a Kashawn Aitcheson and William Moore type haul would feel over an Anton Frondell pick, or something similar?

The Jake trade was awful. Why would we replicate it?

It’s exactly what @HandshakeLine is arguing against.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd prefer this team actually accept reality, pick the only lane left at this point in the era (tank), and settle into an opportunity to land a guy like Hagens, Martone, Misa, or Schaefer. But I know this team's too stupid to start the big sell while guys like Rakell and Bunting have some value, and woe be unto the team who makes Sidney Crosby frown by tanking and/or firing his BFF coach.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd prefer this team actually accept reality, pick the only lane left at this point in the era (tank), and settle into an opportunity to land a guy like Hagens, Martone, Misa, or Schaefer. But I know this team's too stupid to start the big sell while guys like Rakell and Bunting have some value, and woe be unto the team who makes Sidney Crosby frown by tanking and/or firing his BFF coach.

I think the real issue is nobody wants either of those players.

Taylor Hall was just a throw in for Rantanen.

Bunting was a cap dump. Rakell has 3 years left.

nobody wants these players.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think the real issue is nobody wants either of those players.

Taylor Hall was just a throw in for Rantanen.

Bunting was a cap dump. Rakell has 3 years left.

nobody wants these players.

Yeah, I think people are really in denial about how much value we can wring from these mediocre players who are being played in ways that absolutely tank their value. If Dubas was good at trades (he's not) he'd have a hard enough time trying to get some decent returns. But I have doubts about Dubas' ability to trade anything, really.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You can go ahead and trade Bunting and Rakell for future considerations imo. It's addition by subtraction in that this team falls down the standings and has a better chance at landing top-5 picks in the next three drafts.

The only trade they really should try and get value for is Rust as soon as his NTC drops this summer. Once the dust settles after the first day or so of FA idiocy, you tack a bit of retention on Rust and dangle him in front of some team that missed out on a big fish on July 1st imo. But guys like Petts, Rakell, Bunting, EK, DOC, etc. are all additions by subtraction. Might be able to get a 2nd for Petts at the deadline but he's had a dogshit season. EK's not bringing anything back. DOC's f***ing trash on skates. Rakell and Bunting are 3rd liners on a legit team, so they're not bringing back anything noteworthy but I think they're definitely movable.

 

[Pancakes]

18 year old took two years to develop “that’s weird” is the most Penguins take of all time. 95% of prospects work that way, my brother.

We're not talking about 95% of prospects though we're talking about a first overall pick. Those often make a more instant impact than Hughes did. It took him three years to come into his own.

And yes I'm aware there are other first overall picks that have had the same struggles recently, but I don't think any of them are tracking to become what Hughes became. Lafreniere is never going to be that level of player, nor I think will Slafkovsky. Bedard might be. Celebrini is already having a better first year than Hughes did.

McDavid and Matthews obviously had pretty instant impacts but one is the best player since Crosby and the other is the best goalscorer since Ovechkin so not "normal" first overall picks.

If you go back even further than that you've got Mackinnon, Hall, and Nuge who all had better first year seasons than Hughes did.

Anyways

 

[HandshakeLine]

You can go ahead and trade Bunting and Rakell for future considerations imo. It's addition by subtraction in that this team falls down the standings and has a better chance at landing top-5 picks in the next three drafts.

The only trade they really should try and get value for is Rust as soon as his NTC drops this summer. Once the dust settles after the first day or so of FA idiocy, you tack a bit of retention on Rust and dangle him in front of some team that missed out on a big fish on July 1st imo. But guys like Petts, Rakell, Bunting, EK, DOC, etc. are all additions by subtraction. Might be able to get a 2nd for Petts at the deadline but he's had a dogshit season. EK's not bringing anything back. DOC's f***ing trash on skates. Rakell and Bunting are 3rd liners on a legit team, so they're not bringing back anything noteworthy but I think they're definitely movable.

If you trade DOC you have do draft, sign, develop, and trade for another DOC. It's the law.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If you trade DOC you have do draft, sign, develop, and trade for another DOC. It's the law.

They want so badly for this dork ass loser to be something. He's never gonna be anything but AHL/waiver fodder.

-edit- Oh, he was an undrafted signing out of Dartmouth which is like 100 miles away from Boston. Close enough! We've cracked the case.

-edit2- lol

 

[Pancakes]

They want so badly for this dork ass loser to be something. He's never gonna be anything but AHL/waiver fodder.

-edit- Oh, he was an undrafted signing out of Dartmouth which is like 100 miles away from Boston. Close enough! We've cracked the case.

I think DOC is a player that would be appreciated on a good team where he wouldn't have to carry whatever line he's on and where they'd never even think about putting him in a top six role. He actually does have useful qualities as a player unlike most of our forwards

 

[HandshakeLine]

He skates really hard and is always off-side, but in a non Sam Lafferty way because he's too nice to take real penalties.

I wish DOC all the best in his future career as a Dunkin Donuts franchise owner.

They want so badly for this dork ass loser to be something. He's never gonna be anything but AHL/waiver fodder.

-edit- Oh, he was an undrafted signing out of Dartmouth which is like 100 miles away from Boston. Close enough! We've cracked the case.

-edit2- lol
View attachment 967874

It's amazing that you can just make these jokes without doing any research and bam! they're actually true.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think DOC is a player that would be appreciated on a good team where he wouldn't have to carry whatever line he's on and where they'd never even think about putting him in a top six role. He actually does have useful qualities as a player unlike most of our forwards

He's a whatever 4th liner who does nothing well besides skate at an above average level. He's too dumb with the puck on his stick, so you can't even really use him like a Hagelin in a top 9 role. He's one of a billion 4th liners you can grab for free on waivers or sign as an undrafted FA.

He's the Ruhwedel of forwards. He simply exists. /shrug

-edit- I will say that his best quality is simply not being Nieto. So there's that.

 

[Pancakes]

He's a whatever 4th liner who does nothing well besides skate at an above average level. He's too dumb with the puck on his stick, so you can't even really use him like a Hagelin in a top 9 role. He's one of a billion 4th liners you can grab for free on waivers or sign as an undrafted FA.

He's the Ruhwedel of forwards. He simply exists. /shrug

-edit- I will say that his best quality is simply not being Nieto. So there's that.

Eh, I think DOC is a touch above the waiver fodder you're referring to. He's not like a Jansen Harkins or something. He'd be useful as bottom sixer on a good team where he doesn't have to be the carry.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Eh, I think DOC is a touch above the waiver fodder you're referring to. He's not like a Jansen Harkins or something. He'd be useful as bottom sixer on a good team where he doesn't have to be the carry.

Yeah, he’s Phil Bourque before the CTE. I eagerly await his articulate commentary on our 2029 4th round picks in 4 years.

 

[DrDangles]

It's fun watching people talk about the possibility of a lottery pick as if this team won't go on a heater for the last month of the season, miss the WC2 spot by 4 points, and end up picking 14th again.

This is the dying alive Jagr was talking about

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's fun watching people talk about the possibility of a lottery pick as if this team won't go on a heater for the last month of the season, miss the WC2 spot by 4 points, and end up picking 14th again.

This is the dying alive Jagr was talking about

Yeah, I get real 1997-1999 vibes from this club (but without a superstar winning hardware) and I said so many times. It's just blah.

 

[cookthebooks]

is the thought here that richard rakell, 15th in the nhl this season in goals and 2 behind jake guentzel, has zero value when he makes less this season than say brock nelson and is cost controlled for a couple more seasons? for reference no one above him in the goalscoring leaderboard this year gets paid less than him and only adrian kempe is close and kempe is looked at as being one of the best values in hockey?

 

[eXile3]

is the thought here that richard rakell, 15th in the nhl this season in goals and 2 behind jake guentzel, has zero value when he makes less this season than say brock nelson and is cost controlled for a couple more seasons? for reference no one above him in the goalscoring leaderboard this year gets paid less than him and only adrian kempe is close and kempe is looked at as being one of the best values in hockey?

I’m sure Rakell has some value. It’s probably not as much as his stats reflect as teams most likely recognize he’s not going to continue on that pace without Sid.